Gipsy
138 posts
Apr 14, 2015
1:16 AM
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I'm not looking for sympathy or revenge by posting this account, I merely wish to point out the possible negative consequences of doing a deal with forum members. I don't intend naming the individual as I see no purpose in doing so. This is merely a cautionary tale.
Some weeks ago while browsing the forum I came across a post asking whether anyone had a harmonica related item for sale. There was a positive reply from a forum member who had such an item. I emailed the member and asked for first dibs if the original poster didn't proceede,with the deal.
Eventually I had a reply offering me the item, at a fair price, and as I was about to visit the USA a deal was struck such that on receipt of my PayPal transfer of funds the vendor would post it to my hotel address in the USA.
This is where it all goes south. No show at the hotel. The reason for the weeks delay in posting was to include a battery!
When I returned home further emails were exchanged. The vendor blamed further delay in posting was due to his daughters illness. He asked for my address and said he'd post it on ASAP. This is where I began to get suspicious, and as I was back home in the UK I asked for a refund of my money.
Now 2 weeks later there's no refund, or even a reply to my email asking for a refund.
So as I stated earlier not looking for sympathy or revenge. I'm hoping my sorry tale might alert others and help prevent such things happening again.
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arzajac
1635 posts
Apr 14, 2015
2:56 AM
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That's a bummer. But Paypal has a robust payment protection system in place. It will take several weeks, but if you can prove all of what you just said (if you keep the emails, etc...) it's likely you will get your money back.
Folks complain about the costs of exchanging money via Paypal, but it's well worth it when this sort of thing happens.
We are such a small community, it's not too smart to make a deal and not follow though...
I hope you get your money back.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
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harpwrench
1013 posts
Apr 14, 2015
8:31 AM
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I've been screwed over from dealing with a guy full of excuses selling an item on here too. Be careful out there, sometimes it's hard to tell whether someone is real or full of crap.
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groyster1
2775 posts
Apr 14, 2015
8:56 AM
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I will say that all of the forum members I have done business have been nothing but 100% positive
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poitouharpin
25 posts
Apr 14, 2015
9:09 AM
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I agree with both arzajac & barley. Get a PayPal dispute started ASAP. They have a cut off period after which no claim will be investigated. There is no need to be shy about naming & shaming you may save someone else financial embarrassment. Some may criticise for this but they probably have never been screwed over!
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Gipsy
139 posts
Apr 14, 2015
9:18 AM
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Thanks for all the replies. It would appear that peer pressure can be o force for good! Since posting I have received the refund, and an email containing an apology of sorts.
I'm not convinced that I would have received the refund without recourse to posting here, however I am pleased that I decided to keep the identity anonymous, and hence give the vendor the benefit of the doubt.
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Meaux Jeaux
69 posts
Apr 14, 2015
9:24 AM
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I have had nothing but good experiences here and other harmonica related sites when it comes to making a trade or swap. I have been the victim of identity theft
and am very cautious. When making a Purchase online I buy an individual credit/debit card for that use. I make phone calls if possible. Some vendors I have met here will accept a personal check. I am sorry to learn of your experience with a forum member and agree this sort of shiftiness should be outted, "forewarned is forearmed".
Pete
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nacoran
8418 posts
Apr 14, 2015
10:29 AM
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Glad it worked out. I've had nothing but good experiences with members here, particularly with Tom and Andrew. They both are such great guys to do business with I feel guilty whenever I go with the other one. (Had a really good experience with David Payne too, but I don't think he's in business anymore, and had a great experience with Chris Reynolds too). And Adam! And the various kickstarters and albums I've bought here. I think maybe all the huffing and puffing affects the harmonica players brain and we end up being nice guys.
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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Gipsy
140 posts
Apr 14, 2015
11:34 AM
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@nacoran. Until now I've only had good experiences dealing with peeps here. In particular Tom of Blue Moon Harmonica and Andrew Azarjac and Greg Jones have been excellent. I have also had dealings with Rockin Ron, Lone Wolf, and Shaker microphones, and have nothing but praise for all of them. This time I was unlucky, but now it's all sorted as far as I'm concerned it's finished.
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shakeylee
234 posts
Apr 14, 2015
12:47 PM
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yes,you named some great people and vendors. i can say that tom and andrew go beyond what they need to do,that's for sure. they both have given me extra time just to help!!and greg jones is a perfect gentleman and fine singer!
rockin ron's always does me right!!
however,gipsy,even though you think of it as over,and are being very good as to keeping the vendor anonny mouse ,you might want to consider privately informing a moderator ,just for future reference. just a thought.
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www.shakeylee.com
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nacoran
8423 posts
Apr 14, 2015
1:19 PM
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Diggs, only helpful for sleuthing. I seem to remember one of these things got figured out that way. Inquiring minds want to know, or whatever.
I think it's been handled well. I suppose in a pinch we could keep track of things like this anonymously on the forum, but if it got resolved I don't know as that's necessary, and it's one more piece of information we have to keep track of, and it would create an avenue for people to smear people's names behind their backs.
I'd much rather do something in the opposite direction and give praise where it's do for guys who do a great job.
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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Diggsblues
1782 posts
Apr 14, 2015
8:41 PM
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@nacoran unfortunately this is a commercial site and the the owner has some liability. I would put a caveat up in the for sale section that would say that owner is not responsible for transactions between members.
I would also do quiet investigation. This would at least give a record that the site was trying to remedy the situation for the record.
When you deal with millions of dollars in union contracts you always look to cover yourself.
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SuperBee
2549 posts
Apr 14, 2015
9:12 PM
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sometimes it really is unintentional and sometimes its hard to tell...when the communications dry up it looks bad, but that's not always intentional either. circumstances can combine to create an impression of bad faith. spam filters, connection problems, a 3rd party the buyer is unaware of not fulfilling their part of a deal. best not to name and shame until one knows for sure imho. its annoying to lose money, but money isn't always the most important thing at risk when a deal strikes trouble.
sometimes its a rip-off of course. proven scams should be exposed. (remember that poor member who was soundly abused by some for exposing the case-builder, despite his solid case and anecdotal support from others. that guy is still owed some humble apologies imho)
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indigo
93 posts
Apr 14, 2015
9:28 PM
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I think Gypsy handled the situation well.In the end because no names were mentioned,it has only served as a general reminder that perhaps not all people are as straight as the rest of us.
But then again the guy in question might have been just laid off or lost his wife etc.Shit happens.
I haven't dealt financially with any Forum members yet but i did a couple of times with a Harp-L member years ago.
I figure that if a guy is a reasonably regular poster he will be known to a few people in our small world..Who would risk their reputation for a 100-200$?Not many people who have anything at stake i reckon.
But no..this doesn't mean i'd shoot off a grand to someone who puts up an immaculate '59 Bassman as a 'must sell' deal after a week on the forum.
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Kingley
3868 posts
Apr 14, 2015
10:32 PM
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Have to say I've always had good experiences both buying from and selling too forum members. In my opinion 'Gipsy' dealt with his problem in a very mature and sensible fashion and it resulted in a good outcome for him.
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bloozefish
186 posts
Apr 15, 2015
7:04 AM
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I was the guy who supposedly ripped off Gypsy. I had no intentions to do so, but I screwed up like a perfect storm. He contacted me regarding a mic I had. I agreed to sell it to him at what I think was a very reasonable price.
As I was preparing to ship it, I found that a battery was dead and mic was temporarily unusable. No problem, I still had time to get the battery and ship it, didn't want him to receive a non working mic.
That evening a family drama occurred, leading me to need to hospitalize my teen daughter. It is not a valid excuse, and I am not trying to excuse myself from guilt, but Gypsy's mic fell to the bottom of my priorities. I contacted him to offer an alternative to shipping, but it didn't work for him.
He very properly asked for a refund, and I agreed. My biggest screw-up was putting his refund on the back burner as a result of spending so much time at the hospital.
Gypsy has every right to be angry with me. I failed my responsibilities to him. It's no excuse, but there was certainly no intent to rip him off. Some years back I was fairly heavily involved in mic building, and have a 100 percent positive feedback. I can be a dumbass, but wasn't trying to do harm.
Again, gypsy, I extend a sincere apology, and if you like, I will get the mic to you at very little cost to make up for the shit storm I created.
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Martin
798 posts
Apr 15, 2015
7:27 AM
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A very graceful post by bloozefish, I think, on a serious topic.
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6SN7
533 posts
Apr 15, 2015
7:28 AM
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That's pretty standup, Bloozefish. I hope your daughter is ok, family is family and it is first.
It is regrettable that this ended up being "adjudicated" here at MBH.
I had a similar issue with a vendor that is a regular at this site. I bought a harp from him but it didn't make it to me by the agreed date. He had some family issues and the communication suffered. I had to buy another harp for a gig, and I was mad. And I told him so. But I also know this, he was truthful that he had a family situation and was very busy (stressful) and a hospitalization was not even involved.
But honestly, I would never ever embarrass him by coming to this forum, unless it was completely off the hook like the formerly Slim's harp case saga that reigned here for months. Gipsy, I understand your problem, but if it were me, I would have held my "powder" a little longer. Granted, promises were made, but consider the nature of the "vendor" your dealing with. And based on what Bloozefish said, it not "peer pressure" that resulted in successful conclusion, it was the integrity of Bloozefish that made it happen.
Last Edited by 6SN7 on Apr 15, 2015 7:30 AM
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MichaelMc
5 posts
Apr 15, 2015
7:39 AM
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@bloozefish I hope and pray that your daughter is okay.
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Barley Nectar
764 posts
Apr 15, 2015
8:17 AM
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Well, I am somewhat humbled by this chain of events. I am a trusting fellow but not very patient. Gladly, this all worked out well. Family is first at my house also. Bloozefish, I too, hope your daughter is alright...BN
Last Edited by Barley Nectar on Apr 15, 2015 8:17 AM
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Gipsy
141 posts
Apr 15, 2015
9:37 AM
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bloozefish I applaud and respect your willingness to front up. I hope all who have posted on this thread will appreciate both sides of the perfect storm. Strange as it may seem to others I am quite prepared to resurrect the deal, but only at the price we agreed previously as it is a fair price. Perhaps you could take care of the postage?
However as you are aware my wife and I are spending most all of our time at the bedside of her dying father ( all medical support withdrawn by mutual consent ) so it is only a matter of time.
If you are agreeable could I contact you by email in a few days time, and we could perhaps work things out.
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bloozefish
187 posts
Apr 15, 2015
9:48 AM
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@Gipsy,
Yes, please contact me to work out favorable terms. I will discount by whatever UK import duties you will be facing, and cover shipping. I await you email
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Gnarly
1314 posts
Apr 15, 2015
10:02 AM
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A real life drama, exposed on the pages of MBH!
My best wishes for relief from suffering for all concerned on all fronts, perhaps a chorus or two of Amazing Grace might be in order . . .
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MichaelMc
6 posts
Apr 15, 2015
10:32 AM
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I know I'm new here, but I am very impressed with how this all played out. Well done, everyone.
@Gipsy - I also pray for your father-in-law, and family during this, no doubt, difficult time.
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CarlA
748 posts
Apr 15, 2015
10:35 AM
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nacoran
8430 posts
Apr 15, 2015
12:00 PM
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Hope your daughter is okay.
Diggs, I'm not a lawyer, but I've read a fair amount of internet law particularly when it comes to forums. If we had an active policing policy for sales between members we'd actually have more liability that not having any. You're right, we should probably add a disclaimer to the for sale page, not because I think we have a liability but sort of as a 'buyer beware' sign, but I think that is, by common internet practice, an assumed.
We don't get a cut from the sales of goods on the site. If we did, it would be a very different situation and, my understanding is, we'd have to take a bigger role in policing things.
That's not to say we won't respond to an email if someone emails us with a problem. We have, on several occasions, in threads, allowed space for both sides in a dispute to have their say, but we don't have the resources or subpoena power to get the information we'd need to rule on these things.
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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Buzadero
1231 posts
Apr 16, 2015
4:34 AM
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The whole sordid tale was all very civilized and adult. Nicely done, all.
Rodney King would be proud.
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
MBH poster since 11Nov2008
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