Hi, I really dislike the sound of my F harp, just too high and whiny I guess. I noticed a few others saying similar things.
So I was wondering what others do about it, if you are playing a blues in C. I assume you use another position, but do you prefer to play in first, third, or some other position, if you are avoiding cross on the F?
i don't avoid cross on the F harp, but i do sometimes choose a Lo F if it suits the song. i probably wouldn't play 'dont get around much anymore' on my standard F but i definitely wouldn't play 'sloppy drunk' or 'messin with the kid' on my Lo F. and certainly 'sick bed of cuchulain' needs the standard F, i'd never get the speed on a LoF
Last Edited by SuperBee on Apr 07, 2015 9:56 PM
but I would learn to make the F sound big and fat and round, it can be done (not that I'm great at it but I hear some guys play and they don't make it sound too high or whiny at all)
---------- 4' 4+ 3' 2~~~ -Mike Ziemba Harmonica is Life!
I love the sound of my SP20 F harp. It sounds sweet and musical, bends pefectly. The warmth of the SP20 sound tempers the harshness. It also cuts through the mix well when playing live.
.. you can always use a C harp to play in the key of C in 1st position as you mentioned. I like the F harp for some songs.. I like to practice Paul Butterfield's version of "Nobody's Fault but Mine.. among others. I have a low F but never seem use it...
Last Edited by Spderyak on Apr 08, 2015 4:49 AM
My band plays Mustang Sally in C at a brisk pace. I play the cross on my F harp....I also have a Low F Big River, but I agree with SuperBee. I can't get the speed of licks I want with it. I also use the F harp on OMD's If You Wanna Get to Heaven, because honestly, if you used the Low F on it, it simply wouldn't sound right... ----------
Maybe you guys should practice with the higher pitched harps more frequently. I love playing them. It'll help build your chops big time. Try play Rice Miller stuff on the harps. ---------- The Blues Photo Gallery
Valuable teaching technique for my intermediates...
Buy a Low "F" and a High "F" harmonica. Practice all techniques on both to discover the similarities, inherent problems and differences in tongue placement, etc.
When these can be played correctly with ease, student has pretty excellent mastery on all keys. ---------- The Iceman
Thanks, all; I'm sure it's because I don't practice enough. I was steering away from the Low F harp because I figured it's hard to cut through the sound of the band around you.
I tend to disagree with you mate. Do a forum search for "harp shrill f" You'll get pages and pages of "my F harp sounds too shrill" ......,
Bottom line is many people prefer the lower keys because they are more forgiving to the players that lack subtleties and technique in their playing. Also, many hide in the lower keys because it gives them that "vintage Chicago tone"
Ah, I deleted my post already because I decided it didn't matter and may have been a bit troll-ish, playing the man while pointing out the obvious. But for the sake of context: I called CarlA out on his statement that it was a popular thing to moan about F harps. I was thinking in the context of this thread, in which only the OP has anything negative to say about F harps. Yes, ok, it's definitely not the first time, but I think you'll find plenty of posts in those other threads which say positive things about the harp, similar to this thread.
I like playing on a good F harp. It's an opportunity to open up and make it sound big. Another strategy I use is my Micropog octave pedal. I just dial in an octave down...not too much and maybe back off the dry signal a bit and it can get rid of the ice pick tone. All the best, Jay ---------- Music speaks where words fail.
Some footage from last night's busking. I use a low and regular F on this one. High F solo from around 2:50. Some squawks here and there, but I think over 90% of the notes I played were intentional. :)
like anything else in this life , there will be some who can , and , some who can't, and, those who can't .. sometimes , will whine and try to shift the 'blame' to the tools or anything else not to lose face …
I like my F just fine .. we also play Mustang Sally and a few others in C - F harp 2nd pos… Sp 20's ..
If it sounds 'high and whiny .. squeaky' it's probably because of a lack of technique .. not the 'fault' of the harp …. just operator error ...
Last Edited by mastercaster on Apr 09, 2015 2:15 AM
@jason campbell -- If playing a F harp rounds tinny and harsh to your ears, your REAL problem clearly is NOT the instrument, but the one thing you're NOT taking into account at all, your playing technique and the problem you clearly have is something 98% of beginning players and 50-75% of intermediate players have in spades, ESPECIALLY if they're teaching themselves how to play, and that problem is that you clearly are using FAR too much breath force in your playing (often called playing way too damned hard all the time). When you play higher pitched harps too hard, the odd numbered harmonic overtones (which automatically sound thin, tinny and quite harsh and obviously quite unpleasant to the human ear) and the harder you play, the heavier the emphasis that's being placed on it, the more likely you make yourself sound like a really horrible harp player.
If you were playing resonantly, would NOT be playing hard all the time and your playing would have huge emphasis on the even numbered harmonic overtones, and regardless of whether it's a high or low pitched harp, the sounds of the even numbered harmonic overtones sound big, fat, warm and quite leasing to the human ear and if you're playing too hard, you're doing the exact opposite.
With each key harp, you DO have to make VERY SUBTLE ADJUSTMENTS for each key to get the most out of them and with playing too hard, you're basically beating the crap out of your harps and everything you play winds up sounding harsh and even god awful.
Below is Sonny Boy Williamson II (Rice Miller's) Chess recording of Nine Below Zero and he's in C played on an F harp. Now, does he sound too thin, tinny and whiney here?? Absolutey not!!! Why?? He is NOT playing anything really hard here at all and makes all sorts of subtle adjustments to get the most of the instrument, something most players have a tendency NEVER to learn and then are gonna be dumb enough to thing a mic, amp, effect pedal, etc., is gonna bail their behind out and make them sound like a great player and everything is gonna sound cool, but the truth that they don't want to face up to is none of that is gonna make up for bad playing technique and playing too hard IS bad playing technique. I use E's and F fairly regularly, both high and low pitched and have learned to make adjustments in the embouchure or anything else, which is something most players never bother to learn
Mastercaster's last sentence in his above post is absolutely hitting the nail on the head. So,in the end, most players you have been talking to about this are likely to be playing far too hard all the time. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Here's one of several recordings that Junior Wells did of his classic Messin' With The Kid that originally came from the 3-LP Vanguard Series Chicago/The Blues/Today in the mid 60's and he's playing an F harp in C and it sure don't soundy thin, tinny, harsh or whiney at all.
---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
so what is conspicuously missing are examples of big walter using an F harp for that matter little walter jerry portnoy kim wilson william clarke lester butler jerry mc cain and the mighty rod piazza
i seem to remember rod saying that an f harp was to high and whiny
perhaps he could use a little work on his technique lol <
A friend of mine referred to the F harp as the Tweety Bird harp. He always suggested hanging on the low end and hitting plenty of octaves to fatten things up. Played in the context of a full band and amplified, I think they aren't particularly too thin. Actually, they can cut through the mix better at times. ---------- Ricky B http://www.bushdogblues.blogspot.com RIVER BOTTOM BLUES--crime novel for blues fans available at Amazon/B&N, iTunes, iBook THE DEVIL'S BLUES--ditto HOWLING MOUNTAIN BLUES--Ditto too, now available
There is nothing inherently wrong with any key or register...you use what fits the music. F just happens to be the highest normal harp key and G the lowest. That's why most harp manufacturers offer High G and Low F options. A piano normally has 88 keys on it, but how often does anyone use the first or the 88th key? Only when it fits the composition. Most of the playing is done in between. Ever wonder what accounts for the popularity of C? It's right in the middle. Matter of fact, we even call it "Middle C."
If you're looking for power and pathos like the great Russian classical composers, you turn to minor keys. Guitarists who use standard tuning don't like playing in certain keys because of the difficulty in fingering some of the chords. There is nothing wrong with the key itself only the difficulty that it presents in playing. Others choose to alter the tuning a half step or more.
So there is some truth in comments about mastering the technique in playing in any key whether your preference is 1st, 2nd, 5th or even 12th position. And then there is probably some truth about the structure of the human skull and its areas of resonance.
Most people have had the experience of hearing their voices recorded for the first time and exclaiming, "Is that the way I sound?" And the majority of people are somewhat disappointed in what they hear. It's for the same reason that we DO like hearing ourselves singing in the shower...we owe a lot to those enclosed tile walls.
We all have our own preferences, but it's probably more about us than about the instrument.
@jason campbell -- Practicing wrong is easily just as bad, if not worse, than not practicing regularly because practicing wrong INGRAINS bad habits and practicing the RIGHT way gets rid of them. Obviously, you are practicing wrong whenever you are practicing. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Frankly I am surprised that folks don't like E and F. They are my favourites to use because of the ease of bending on the low end and the emotion you can put into it with little effort and air flow. I guess I have decent technique as I've never taken lessons face to face. Subtle nuances that fit the music and groove work easily in F and E is the way I feel.
@barbequebob Wow, harsh? I fully admit to being a n00b, that was the basis of my question. I was wondering if others find the high F difficult and use other positions, or if I'm just doing it wrong. I'm glad for all the information above, now I get that it's just my own bad habits.
But while I'm at it, I have always loved your stuff, and as I'm in the north of Boston 'burbs, if you take on students please let me know.
bottom line for me is if the key is C....will play an F harp....they are my least favorite key but I certainly do not want to be off key....whatever of the 12 keys,I will use what I need
