I don't use an amp any more. I go straight to the PA with one kind of box or another. However, I thought it sounded great in the live clip running into the PA, especially, at the price point. It looked like the player was hearing himself well enough to play and the tone was excellent. I wish I could have had one of these for my first amp. It would have saved me a lot of time and money. All the best to everyone on your journey for TONE! Jay ---------- Music speaks where words fail.
Last Edited by 9000 on Feb 23, 2015 7:10 PM
i don't read German well but the thrust of that article seems to be about how the MM is based on a mass-produced unit which is cheaply available and relatively easily converted. there was also a problem or three but i'm not sure if those were with the MM or the Ttsunami. i didnt catch the surprise or disappointment. i'd appreciate a translation. i have a similiar project on simmer with a Strauss/Golden Ton 5 watt "hand-wired" amp...its pretty much a 5F1 but running a 6L6 and 10"...i'm just trying to read as much info as i can find about harp-specific versions of this type of circuit
The Problems were with the MM, but I'm not sure who's fault that was, because it was mostly shipping-related (flying tubes, loose soldering), and I guess he did get it from someone in Germany to work on, not directly from Rick.
Your right about the rest. He says it's a Tsunami with 3 condensators?? added, better tubes and a better speaker. (and might I add: a line out, better looks(tweed) and guarantee/check in the US)
I don't understand electronics enough to translate the stuff about the heater. Something about the mass, but I don't know.
My translation of the relevant part for you: "Bridge first resistance with 2,2n, second with 1,5n and in the Tweedblende 4,7n is doubled. I'd stick in a AY."
Last Edited by FreeWilly on Feb 26, 2015 11:05 AM
I have to say, I'm a bit uncomfortable with a public blow by blow "how to" on turning the stock amp into a "Memphis Mini". Just about any amp is identifiably based on another design (I could do this with any number of amps we are all familiar with) & sure, it's not rocket science for someone to inspect & breakdown the circuit (necessary even, for service & repair), but this work in filling a niche in the market is down to Rick making it happen. Publicly circumventing that isn't perhaps gentlemanly. Rick has been transparent about the sourcing of the amps & broadly what happens with regards to converting them to Memphis Mini spec.
The harp world is pretty small, most mass market amp manufacturers have no interest in harp specific models, so it's only a good thing for us if folk offer a workable alternative...& would be nice if they were able to benefit from the rewards of doing so. There are plenty of other ways to mod a small SE amp, whether from this donor model or not.
FWIW, I like mine just fine with the AU. ---------- www.myspace.com/markburness
Another thing is: Rick is selling a product. I think it's always good to review what you're getting. He says about the amp, that it is built in China to his specs. That sounds a bit different to my ears from what you actually get. Of course there was some development cost in this amp. But to suggest sharing some info on the amp is ungentlemanly is a stretch I think. It also implies that you're taking something away from Rick by doing that. I don't think though, that it takes away any reason to buy the amp. It is a lot of work to get the circuit changes, the tubes, the speaker, the tweed, the line out and the quality control in. But let's not overdo it: If this amp was helping the harp community so much, we wouldn't have needed 4 threads or so to make us aware of this great help.
Not to slam Rick btw. He did take a risk and tries to sell as much as possible by making the story sound as good as possible without actually lying. Fine with me. I would have done the same. Just offering a nuance to the ungentlemanly-remark, which I think is not completely fair in this particular case.
Last Edited by FreeWilly on Feb 26, 2015 11:08 AM
That said, 5F6H is a gentleman, no nuance required. note: Concert is at home enduring hour ~40 of thumping rap to stretch out the new speakers. It'll be another week before I spend some quality time dialing in the possibilities. A friend (you've also consulted -Chris) was with me when we picked it up and he thought it sounded like a Harpking. High praise. That was before speaker break in or any specific preamp tube trials. And the speakers were series wired to 8 ohms, not 2. It's parallel and at 2 now. Sauron is stirring.
Cheers Littoral, of course Kinder himself could nail that sound for you, but high praise indeed. :-)
FreeWilly, businesses exist through marketing & selling things, you can't begrudge him that. The harp world is really quite small, in other markets folk protect designs & developments as a matter of course, I'd like to think we can get by without that, or events that would make someone feel such protection was necessary. ---------- www.myspace.com/markburness
@5FGH- Honestly, reading the translation was mostly jibberish to me though I detect there were certain things he said that you as an electronics person understood better than me, a neophyte learning to build their first amp. Do you think one can determine how to mod with their champ/princeton just by looking at this photo? Maybe... DJL/Megatone posts lots of photos of the guts of PA conversions on FB and these have very interesting mods done that are more sophisicated than the MM. That's no slam on the MM, its a terrific 5 watt harp amp while the DJL amps are more powerful and larger amps.
Last Edited by 6SN7 on Feb 28, 2015 4:24 AM
@6SN7 "DJL/Megatone posts lots of photos of the guts of PA conversions on FB and these have very interesting mods".
That's entirely DJL's prerogative, a bit different to someone else posting how to exactly copy a DJL mod, or circuit, many of the old PA manufacturers are defunct, no new models/stock to shift, so there's no impact on their revenue. The guts shots of DJL's amps don't show enough to let you recreate the circuit & features they have worked to develop.
My point is more about respecting someone's choice as to what they put in the pubic domain & how it affects their interests, rather than raining on someone's parade just because you can. We're not talking about "sticking it to the man" & undermining large corporations in the harp amp world, we're usually talking about one man's vision & daily activities.
To a lot of folk, yes, it will be moot as they may not understand exactly what is shown/written, but this is 100 year old technology, also undergoing a big revival in interest and most towns will have folk schooled in it.
John Kinder can modify other amps to sound "like a Harpking", this is what he was doing prior to the Harpking being built & how he makes the Harpking sound like it does. The Harpking also has parameters that can be adjusted to change the sound on the fly, beyond the normal tone & presence controls, so it can sound like the typical perception, or not. ---------- www.myspace.com/markburness
@5F6H: I imagine DJL and Kinder's mods are very complicated compared to the mods in a MM. Further, do you really think the MM "special sauce" isn't something that hasn't been discussed before in countless forums? I mean, its a very basic schematic that has been tinkered with by many for a long time.. The inside of a DJL (I have one) looks nothing like the original amp layout. While there is a revival of tube technology, it is hardly big. Kids today aren't buying music equipment like I did when I was young. Recently, my daughter expressed an interest in making music. She didn't buy a guitar or a keyboard, she bought a midi to run thru her laptop. That's the new norm now for kids. Finding an excellent amp tech is still hard to find where I live. I am afraid if I had an issue with my 58 Deluxe, I would have to send it to California for the work.
5F6H - Very true indeed Mark. Plus of course some of the things in the HarpKing like Mid bass cut and AFB for example are available as outboard units and can be used to make other amps sound HarpKing-esque. Those untis were originally invented by John Kinder so that Rod Piazza could get 'his sound' no matter where in the world he was playing and regardless of what gear he was using. Of course those units also enabled Rod to fight feedback and many people have since invested in the Kinder AFB just for that purpose. Many people associate the HarpKing sound as the compressed sound used by Rod. That's not quite the whole deal though. The HarpKing amps can be used in many ways and have a wide variety of tonal options that allow players to get many different sounds from them. A lot of people refer to amps that have been modified to sound more compressed as sounding like HarpKing amps. Really a better description would probably be to say they sound like Rod Piazzas amped sound. That's my take on things.
Last Edited by Kingley on Feb 28, 2015 8:11 AM
@6SN7" I imagine DJL and Kinder's mods are very complicated compared to the mods in a MM. Further, do you really think the MM "special sauce" isn't something that hasn't been discussed before in countless forums?"
Well the simpler the amp, the bigger impact a few well thought out mods make. Even a complex amp can be transformed with a couple of resistor changes in the right place. But it's not the number of changes, nor complexity that is the issue, it's the intent to specifically circumvent the supplier & do it using his very own combination of changes (unique as far as I am aware). Buy a Tsunami by all means, mod it, or have it modded, chances are the exact nature of changes will be different dependant on who does it & but then you're not trying to recreate a "Memphis Mini", you're modding a Tsunami. ---------- www.myspace.com/markburness
If I wanted a MM, I would buy one. It would make no sense for me to do it myself as I, like 99.5% of the population, do not possess the skill set to do it (yet!.) If I did do it, I wouldn't start with a Tsunami but a 5F2 schematic as I believe Rick has said it is based on that. Maybe the poster had a Tsunami hanging around the house and decided to mod it. Based on Rick's site, he bought a Champ and started noodling with that and had the help of a very accomplished amp builder. I don't doubt that the MM is "unique" as an offering, but I would think that these particular mods have been discussed in internet forums already.
I wonder how well Memphis Minis are selling. Whether you like them or not aside, I am curious if the market exists. If Rick has found a market, I believe others will be along shortly to exploit, or capitalize on, it. Harp specific amps from major manufacturers?
As a former entrepreneur and successful business owner and manager, I am reading this post with interest.
One thing that many if not most people do not understand about offering a product on the commercial market is that there are many invisible commitments involved in creating a viable manufacturing business.
Clearly, with the information that seems to be readily available in the web, it is not rocket science to create a knock-off of an existing amp. But there is a whole world of commitments one has to nail down before they can think of selling their newly created amp.
You need to have done a ton of expensive and time-consuming testing of the various components and combination of components you intend to incorporate into the amp. Then, once you have settled on a combination, you need to ensure that your suppliers are solid themselves so that you can provide a steady flow of amps. Finally, you have to be well enough financed to purchase an inventory of components and parts so that, if you are lucky enough to actually get some orders, you can fill them.
Next you need to figure out how to market your amp. Do you have professional web -building or blogging experience? Do you have professional sales and marketing experience? If not you will have to pay someone else to do these things. And then they won't just get done by themselves. You will spend untold hours working with these pro's so that they understand your market and goals.
Now that you have a viable product you need to create a support network. That means staffing phone calls, and if you've sold internationally, that means 24/7. You need to ensure that whoever answers the phone can provide effective answers for your valued customers. If so, hopefully, your first line of support personnel can "talk" customers through fixes and your commitment will end there.
But what if something actually breaks? You will then realize how deeply you are "in the Army now." You have a real-world problem, particularly with a potentially dangerous product like an amplifier, because you don't want un-knowledgeable customer mucking around inside the amp. So, you either ship the amp back or have your customer find a local amp tech to resolve the problem. Either solution is distasteful and expensive at best. Or worse, look at the potential liability land mine if a customer should actually get injured while mucking around inside the amp. You don't even want to go there. I just hope you have a good insurance policy and a great lawyer.
You get the idea. Basing a successful business on a complex, dangerous product means much, much more than just building a knock-off from instructions on the 'net. You'll have months of work and a huge financial commitment before you can open your doors, and then even if everything goes well, you will never have worked so hard to keep everything afloat. Pray that nothing goes wrong.
So, I don't see the value in taking pot-shots at a business person who is not able to defend himself since he is no longer on this forum. Go ahead and start a "Memphis Minnie Too" business and you will quickly realize how simply having the schematics (even if they really work) is just the tip of the iceberg of your business. When you put your personal reputation and finances on the line, all this other real-world business stuff will strike very close to home.
At least that's the way I see it.
Michelle
(Disclaimer: Rick Davis is a friend of mine.)
---------- SilverWingLeather.com email: mlefree@silverwingleather.com
Last Edited by mlefree on Mar 02, 2015 9:35 AM
Fender seemed to take a half-hearted stab at this with the Pawn Shop line...they even went so far as to market the Excelsior directly to harp players in the initial promo video. The Ramparte, to me at least, seemed like a neat take on a single-ended 6L6 amp, much like the LW6L6SE, but it was more geared for guitarists.
IF....and its a really big if....a large manufacturer took a stab at mass producing harp-specific amps, my money would probably bet that it'd be the boys down in Meridian, Mississippi. ----------
The t.tsunami amp is just a re-branded OEM of the "Classic 5" amp made in China. The Memphis Mini looks like it is based on the Classic 5, but it has some mods and upgrades and added value. Nothing wrong with that.
Last Edited by JJ Harper on Mar 02, 2015 9:56 AM
I'm not sure I understand the desire to provide harp specific mods to a tweed Champ clone. They are already good harp amps. If a person cant get good tone out of a Champ circuit, they have no tone.
It's not so much modding as building IMHO Joe. Simply that when you build one, you have to make choices about components and values. And then there are options like tone control, line out, fuses, speaker extension, input jacks, SS or tube rectification. The 'tweed champ' is like a mythical beast, an idea which is open to a certain amount of interpretation. My Chinese 6L6, 10" version is a bit bright and I'm not sure it's electronically sound. I'm not necessarily seeking ultimate tone from it. I'd just like it to measure up and be able to have confidence it's not about to burn up a power transformer. It's interesting to see what choices successful builders have made.
well for one, a classic champ circuit does not have a tone stack, and if you buy the fender champ reissue it will be about 2x the price as the MM. I priced it out and a champ kit would be no cheaper than this amp and you still have to put it together, with somewhat lower quality components available (an no tone stack). Also, if something is not right when you get it, Rick will make it right.... other options are a bit less reliable on that end of things. The soldering job was very good on the one I got... i put my review on here, there were some things not totally happy about, but all in all, not easy to do much better on your own than this for the price
I am always mystified by the term "custom harp amp". Most of the ones I have seen are simply revoiced guitar amps. Seems like a lot of hype to me. Changing a voltage, tube, cap, or slope resistor to alter the voice is nothing new, certainly not "custom." Designers have been doing this since the first guitar amps. Its just basic tube design. Kudos to Rick for making good tone available at a low price point, he's got my respect. The circuit is more like a tweed Princeton, than a champ. I just can't swallow the hype from any of the websites, there's nothing special going on inside these amps, just tweeked classic designs. My own tweed champ cost me $500 in the highest quality parts available, and an afternoon to put it together. My tweed Princeton, $515. It sounds very similar to my '56 original. To turn it into a "harp amp" is 15 minutes and $5 dollars of parts. An original is a fantastic sounding experience, that holds its value. Before you judge a "harp amp", you would be well served to try the original design if you have the chance. Really see if there is any special "harp amp mojo", or its just hype.
