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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > No respect for Hohner "Blues Harps"?
No respect for Hohner "Blues Harps"?
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Manitoba Slim
3 posts
Jan 17, 2015
9:50 AM
When I started playing harp back in August I picked up the cheapest harmonica I could find, the Hohner Bluesband. After my first lesson in October I realized the Chinese-made Bluesband was terrible and picked up a Hohner Blues Harp, probably because "Blues Harp" is a term I had heard often and I figured it came from the instrument I was buying. Little did I know the term had existed for 100 years dating back to the Marine Band and Hohner just decided to capitalize on the popularity of it by trademarking the phrase in the 70's.

Anyway, I was extremely pleased with the tone and how easy the Blues Harp was to play. It was my understanding that it is basically a Marine Band that doesn't swell up because of extra lacquer and is more easily-customizable. I decided to buy a cheaper harmonica to practice in the car so I picked up a Big River Harp as well but I don't enjoy it as much and find it harder to play single notes and bends. I'm not sure if that is because of the plastic comb.

I was planning on buying a 5 or 7 pack of Blues Harps so I can begin using my "100 Blues Licks" book but I have been surprised by how few artists endorse the Blues Harp compared to the Marine Band or Special 20. Even on this forum I find that it is not as popular. Why is that?
nacoran
8220 posts
Jan 17, 2015
10:11 AM
I like the Blues Harps sound, personally. They are rough on your lips compared to a Special 20 and, at least to my ear down sound as bright as a MB but they are a decent harp. A lot of guys aren't fans of MS harps. I don't know if that goes back to the botched roll out/backlash when Hohner tried to convert everything to MS or what. I've got a 3 Blues Harps in my gig set (plus one pre-MS BH and a couple more on in various states of repair). I'm actually working on getting a set of pre-MS Blues Harps for my gigging set.

It may also be as simple as 'The Marine Bands are popular, so now that I'm starting out I'll buy a Marine Band' followed by 'That Marine Band I bought was a good harp, so I'll stick with it'. Market inertia.



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First Post- May 8, 2009
pharpo
757 posts
Jan 17, 2015
10:26 AM
I have some Blues Harps. Mostly flat keys. They generally are a little more leaky than what I am used to. So I flat sand the combs, re seal, and gap them. They are much better after a little work. ps I also round off the tines of the comb a bit to make them more comfortable.

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Last Edited by pharpo on Jan 17, 2015 10:27 AM
Danny Starwars
6 posts
Jan 17, 2015
10:32 AM
I'd take a Blues Harp over a Pro Harp (I hate those things with a passion), but there are a lot of better choices these days (imo) for throwing your money at. In my country the average harp price is about $60, which is probably like $70/80 US.
arzajac
1558 posts
Jan 17, 2015
11:18 AM
MS harps all use excellent reeds now and they have lots of potential.

Every MS harp underperforms out of the box because of the comb. The plastic combs are terrible and the Blues harp wooden comb is far from swell-proof. I recommend you fill up al the crevices in the wood, flat sand it and then seal it. It's a bigger job than sanding and sealing a marine Band comb.

In my area, the Blues Harp sells for over $50. You can get a Big River or Blue Midnight for a little over $25 and upgrade the comb to get much better value.

Again, aside from the comb, MS harps have a lot going for them. For example, I really like the cover plates - you have much less of a problem with the 1 and 2 hole draw reeds buzzing against the lower cover in the low keys (A, Ab, G, low-F...) and they are quite sturdy.

Very good harps.

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Meaux Jeaux
35 posts
Jan 17, 2015
12:56 PM
"Very good harps."
I can attest to the fact that they are VERY good harps
after Andrew Z has set them right.

Last Edited by Meaux Jeaux on Jan 17, 2015 12:57 PM
jiceblues
381 posts
Jan 17, 2015
2:41 PM
yes , very good harps if you work a lot on them , or pay a tech to do that .From where i order , a Special 20 is quite the same price and very playable ootb .Sometimes you have to gap some reeds , but it's not a big deal .
SuperBee
2333 posts
Jan 17, 2015
3:10 PM
I used to play them as my bau instrument, because that's what was in the shops and I had a funny (baseless) idea about wooden combs so I didn't want to play sp20. Also I had a bad experience with sp20 and being quite ignorant I blamed the model of harp. I was very slow to come back to sp20. Until about 2008 I actually assumed sp20s were still MS harps, based on that mid-90s experience. I just avoided them.
I went off the blues harps when I took a few apart and discovered how brittle the combs are. But I actually like the size and shape and sound. I don't ever buy them now because I can't obtain new reeds and it's just easier to stick with the hohner handmade range, and seydel harps. I don't break many reeds at all anymore (seems to coincide with learning to repair my own harps), but have no compelling reason to go back to blues harps. Although I do find them more comfortable to play...
Until very recently I had a Bb with a bamboo comb which was my go to harp for that key. I only retired it after I took the time to tweak a Bb marine band which is now number 1. I had an F I liked too, but had to cannabilise it to repair a client's harp. I think hohner sell complete reed plates for them but that always seems such a waste to me
sonny3
235 posts
Jan 17, 2015
4:59 PM
Everybody likes different models,i think blues harps are pretty good.Im partial to marine bands, maybe
i just like the smaller size of them.Also i like marine bands tone better and i think they overblow easier.
Barley Nectar
604 posts
Jan 17, 2015
5:49 PM
I have one BH, Key of C. It is my work harp, I take it to work. This thing is OLD, loud and tough. I nearly bought the five pack recently but got the SP-20's instead. I'm not very fussy when it comes to harps but I'd say, judging by this one, BH's are good...BN
cliffy
127 posts
Jan 17, 2015
8:01 PM
I have six or seven Blues Harps that I have bought during last-minute music store searches for a harp that I needed for various gigs.

A few of them are excellent, some are just okay. I don't like the comb at all, though. Its edges are extremely sharp and they rip my mouth up. I replaced the comb on a few with combs from Blue Moon and Arzajac. This made a huge improvement on the air tightness of the harps. I have not bothered to flat sand the reed plates in these harps... I actually installed the new combs while sitting in my car. One day I'll try flat sanding, but I am perpetually short on free time.

The ones I have that are really nice playing, I rounded the sides on a drum sander. The result is a really small harp that fits well in the hand and is really easy to cup with a mic. I have a hard time getting both rounded sides to look perfectly even, though.
zackattack
18 posts
Jan 17, 2015
11:06 PM
Hohner's inconsistent quality finally wore me out. Why buy a low/moderate priced harmonica only to have to send it to a customizer. For the money spent in these two steps I can get a Seydel Session Steel and play it right out of the box. You can get both blow and draw bends without breaking the bank. Covers are smooth and there are no edges to catch you, or your mustache.
A440
306 posts
Jan 18, 2015
2:17 AM
The Blues Harp is much better today than it was 10 years ago. I think Pat Missin's review is spot on:

http://www.patmissin.com/reviews/mbbhmbd.html

If they work for you, keep using them!

OOTB, the BH has two advantages over the MB1896: 1. screws instead of nails, 2. stronger covers. Personally, I also like the feeling of the BH combs better than the stock MB1896 combs. However, the MS reedplates are not as good as the reedplates on the MB/SP20.

Having said that, with both the Blues Harp and the MM1896, the variation is high. With either model you can get a really good one, or a catankerous lemon.

Last Edited by A440 on Jan 18, 2015 2:49 AM
jiceblues
382 posts
Jan 18, 2015
2:33 AM
The way to go with a MS BLUES HARP is to change the comb .Arzajac offers very good combs for this model (and others) , and they are inexpensive .
jiceblues
383 posts
Jan 18, 2015
2:56 AM
But , for gigging , i find the MBDL , Crossover or SP20 to be more accurate .Just my experience .
ted burke
54 posts
Jan 18, 2015
3:09 PM
I have been playing harmonica a very long time and I have never found any reason to say anything nice about Blues Harps. They are stiff, they are slow, the blow out of tune quickly, they swell and cut your lips, they choke. I am surprised Hohner has kept such a miserable instrument in circulation.
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SuperBee
2342 posts
Jan 18, 2015
6:11 PM
that surprises me Ted. i've never known one to swell or cut my lips, or be stiffer or slower or noticeably shorter-lived than any other harp, and i played them regularly from about 1998 until 2011, when i began switching over to marine band types incl sp20
nowmon
4 posts
Jan 20, 2015
6:15 AM
with a marine band all you need is a player with the blues,thats all I saw 45 years ago!
arzajac
1562 posts
Jan 20, 2015
7:47 AM
"They are stiff, they are slow, the blow out of tune quickly, they swell and cut your lips, they choke."

That's - to a tee - what it's like to play a harp with a poor comb. No matter how you gap the reeds, the harp will not cooperate. You will work harder and move more air to get the reeds going only to blow out some reeds sooner.

If you flatten and seal the comb properly or use a third-party comb, you will end up with positive results as SuperBee describes.

Why has SuperBee only had positive experiences and Ted only negative ones with this harp? I would point to the unpredictable nature of mass-produced harps.

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jiceblues
385 posts
Jan 20, 2015
8:07 AM
In my experience , the BH needs more air to work than say , the Crossover or SP20 .Not very responsive .
And i played a lot of BH's and SP20's .The late BH's are better ootb , but not on par with a SP20 .
The stock comb is ugly .
BTW , never broke a reed on a BH , and i gigged a whole year with them .The same with the LO , never had a problem , but not as easy to play as a SP20 or a MBDL .
shakeylee
23 posts
Jan 20, 2015
9:20 AM
i think MS harps need a little tweaking . an aftermarket comb would be a big help.
personally i rarely use hohner as a main harp,but a well tweaked MS makes a good backup for me.
short of a third party comb,even a meisterklasse ,blue midnight or other plastic comb seems better to me,till you get an aftermarket comb.most of us have tons of parts.
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zackattack
20 posts
Jan 20, 2015
10:31 AM
I played Hohner and Lee Oskar harps for years, in spite of inconsistent quality of the Hohner models. I think this is the case for most players - you play what's available, and these two brands are stocked at all music stores. Until I had a chance to experiment with other brands I thought that all harmonicas were of inconsistent quality. Discovering Seydel harmonicas was what really excited me as each one I purchased was as playable as the last one. The Blues Session model is affordable for all, has smooth edges and covers, a nice sound and consistent quality. Parts are readily available to rebuild/replace as necessary, and a wide variety of special tunings is available.
Manitoba Slim
5 posts
Jan 21, 2015
6:45 PM
Very good advice. I have noticed my lips getting sore after playing my Blues Harp for hours, however I thought that was par for the course with harp playing. I didn't think that a wood comb could be the reason. Instead of going for a whole case I think I'll try a different model in 'A' and have some fun with it. I've been reading a lot of good things about the Seydel Session Steel.
Joe_L
2565 posts
Jan 30, 2015
10:48 AM
I like the MS harps including the Blues Harp and play them almost exclusively. Now, that Hohner stopped selling replacement reedplates that may change, but I'm not sure.

I've played Suzukis, Seydels and almost the entire Hohner line. My performing harps are almost all stock MS harps.

I've got no lip problems. I don't have boxes of instruments that are out of tune. I can play them as fast as I like.

I've never had anyone say, "Joe, you would be a much better player, if you switched to a more expensive harmonica." Other players usually ask me, "how can you play those things?"

I haven't had a bad OOTB MS harp in decades. Are they great? No, but I can play them. They are economical. They sound pretty good.

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Last Edited by Joe_L on Jan 30, 2015 10:49 AM
groyster1
2741 posts
Jan 30, 2015
12:18 PM
I replaced a very leaky big river comb with a hetrick wood comb....the leak disappeared.....apparently the comb is a problem with MS harps...I have a couple of blue midnites....they play much better than the big river ootb
Raven
2 posts
Feb 04, 2015
11:36 AM
Why buy harps just for price and then have to customize them to get them to play right? Invest a few extra bucks into better quality and save yourself a lot of aggravation. Seems everyone has a different experience with brands. I own Hohner BH,PH, SP20, Lee Oskars, Seydels and Suzukis. Personally my preference is the Suzuki Manji, a little pricier than SP20 and a little brighter but play well OOTB with less effort. Invest in the 7-pc set and you can actually get them for less than individual SP20's. Any harp under $20 is meant for the dog to play with.
Joe_L
2568 posts
Feb 04, 2015
2:14 PM
I don't. I buy them and play the shit out of them until they die. I only customize stuff when I am completely bored out of my skull and need something to do.

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chromaticblues
1669 posts
Feb 04, 2015
2:16 PM
No
Harmonicatunes
8 posts
Feb 04, 2015
4:21 PM
In recent years premium harmonicas have come on to the market - the Hohner Crossover and Rocket, the Suzuki Manji.

In my experience the extra dollars for these better quality instruments is well spent, compared the SP20, Blues Harp, Big River etc.
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Tony Eyers
Australia
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Blowyourbrassoff
177 posts
Feb 05, 2015
9:12 PM
I love the Blues Harp. I still have some that I got back before they became the MS Blues Harp. They do need some work out of the box but with a little work they can be great harps.

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TmickyD1
20 posts
Feb 05, 2015
9:22 PM
I'm with everyone else here. I own about 5-6 blues harps and I've found them to be pretty unresponsive out of the box. However, once I bring the gaps down, they are my favorite harmonicas to play. I even like them better than my Suzuki Promasters.

I really don't even mind exposed reedplates. I've played That style of harmonica for so long that when I play smooth harmonicas like Sp20s, I find myself missing the holes i'm going for.
Ronnie boy
1 post
Mar 21, 2016
9:22 AM
I too have no love for the Hohner Blues Harp. I do not like the feel, the tone, the stiffness. Very disappointed. I will stick with the Special 20 which is great IMO and the marine band (i sanded and modified with screws and is now my favorite). If anyone who loves this dog wants to purchase my slightly used Blues harps please let me know before I take them out back and shoot them. I have a D and Bb. email is ron.fishman @rcn.com. I live in the Philadelphia PA area

Last Edited by Ronnie boy on Mar 21, 2016 9:25 AM
WinslowYerxa
1101 posts
Mar 21, 2016
11:06 AM
The original Blues Harp, introduced in 1965, was just a Marine Band with different covers.

The MS series, introduced at the beginning of the 1990s, was a complete redesign of the instrument, The reeds for the MS series were redesigned again about 1995, with reeds being longer, instead of shorter, than what were then called "handmade" harps - Marine Band, Special 20, and Golden Melody.

While the plastic-combed MS harps have three reedplate screws, one of them being i the middle of the "tooth" that separates Holes 5 and 6, drilling a hole in a wooden partition was too chancy, so Hohner went with only reedplate screws for the MS Blues Harp. This probably has something to do with the poor playing response reported by some players. The reeds are the same as in the Big River and Blue Midnight.
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Tiggertoo1962
44 posts
Mar 21, 2016
11:53 AM
I have three MS Blues Harps on which I have flat sanded the draw plates and combs (didn't "fill" the combs as Andrew suggests above - wouldn't know how). Although they play better now, they still don't play as well or as easily as my SP20s. Been thinking about trying a comb change, but unfortunately one of Andrew's combs would be too expensive when you factor in postage to Germany, and I can't for the life of me find Blue Midnight combs, even on the Hohner website.

Could someone please tell me which other combs fit on - and improve - the BH MS or, even better, know of anyone in Germany who does custom combs for a reasonable price?

@ Joe_L - don't know where you live, but Hohner haven't stopped selling replacement reed plates per se... maybe just in your area or country.

http://www.hohner-cshop.de/en/Harmonica/Richter-Diatonic/MS-Series/
barbequebob
3188 posts
Mar 21, 2016
1:15 PM
All of the parts of the entire MS series re interchangeable with other parts of the MS series, so for example, if you buy a set of reed plates for the Blues Harp model, they will fit in any other MS series model, whether it's the Big River, Pro Harp, Cross Harp, Blue Midnight, or Meisterklasse or the older MS Marine Bands or MS Special 20's (the latter two were NEVER issued in the USA, but only in Europe).

When they started the MS series, the wood they chose for the MS series (which was used on the MS Blues Harp, MS Marine Band and MS Martin models), were made from a wood from Africa called Doussie, which was much more moisture resistant than pearwood, and the man reason why they used it was because Hohner didn't want to be bothered with sealing the combs, and the doussie combs aren't totally moisture proof at all.
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tomaxe
62 posts
Mar 21, 2016
1:38 PM
I think the Blue Midnight out of the box is tuned to a 19LJI, which is different from the other MS reed plates, no? At least my Blue Midnight in A that I bought to try has smooth sounding chords and is differently tuned than, say, a Big River. So if you buy new reed MS plates—if still available—for a Blue Midnight it won't be at 19LJI. The whole thing is very confusing.
I like the MS series but yes the quality control on the combs is awful.The problem with the Blues harp comb is both warping and swelling and I find those particular combs worse than any Marine Band I have ever played.
I have a low D and a Low E Big River that still play very well! Total crapshoot with those things!
barbequebob
3189 posts
Mar 21, 2016
1:47 PM
@Tomaxe -- You are absolutely correct about the tuning of the Blue Midnight, which is the single biggest thing separating them from the rest of the MS series. The rest of the MS series uses one of three compromise tunings Hohner has been using since 1992.
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Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
tomaxe
64 posts
Mar 21, 2016
2:04 PM
@barbequebob: Thanks for that info.
My Blue Midnight in A actually plays well, but I'm sure if I bought another Blue Midnight it would be 50-50 whether or not it performed well out of the box. It's a head scratcher that one of the main reasons to buy a MS Series harp—the reed plates and combs interchangeable—is made confusing by the Blue Midnight having differently tuned reed plates that are not available as replacements.You would have to retune the brand new replacement plates to 19LJI if you liked that sound. Bizarre.
Tiggertoo1962
45 posts
Mar 21, 2016
3:21 PM
Thanks for the info, Bob.

The only MS combs which I can find still for sale on the German Hohner website are Big River, Pro Harp, Cross Harp, and Meisterklasse. Anybody have an opinion on which of the above is the best option? For the price of the Meisterklasse comb - over 21 €uros - I could almost get a custom comb. I think the Big River combs, which are less than 6 €uros, might make the harp more like a SP20, since the plates are fully embedded in the comb. Only one way to find out, I suppose...
SuperBee
3526 posts
Mar 21, 2016
10:54 PM
Hi Tt62. The BR and PH combs are the same deal and not quite like a sp20. The MS plastics have exposed reedplates at the mouthpiece.
Personally I don't think much of the MS combs.
My opinion: if you are serious about wanting to improve your blues harp, get a comb from Andrew Z or Tom Halchek. This is a funny thing to say I know, but I would expect to be disappointed if I put a stock MS plastic comb on a blues harp in the hope of improvement. In my experience the blues harp usually performed better than either BR or PH.
I found those doussie combs very easy to break. Not surprised hohner didn't want to drill the times.
Tiggertoo1962
47 posts
Mar 22, 2016
1:59 AM
Cheers for the feedback, Bee. Just what I was needing, as I've never played the BR or PH, so didn't know which of the three plays best.

I'm currently looking for a custom comb in Germany, since getting one comb sent from the US wouldn't really make sense financially ;)
SuperBee
3527 posts
Mar 22, 2016
3:26 AM
US is very expensive to deal with but Canadian postage and exchange rate is much better.
SuperBee
3528 posts
Mar 22, 2016
5:25 PM
That's weird...until I made this post, my previous post was not showing up on the list as the most recent post. So the topic was never bumped because the spam filter grabbed my post, and then when it was reinstated it still didn't register as a new post on the thread...
Not that it's a momentous post but when you respond to someone it'd be good if it was clear there's been activity...
Thievin' Heathen
730 posts
Mar 22, 2016
5:44 PM
The doussie combs do have an odd grain/texture to them. I flat sand them and have successfully drilled that 3rd hole (middle tine) a few times. I did not find them any more fragile than an old pear wood MB.

I filled in some odd missing low keys (LE, LEb, LF# I think) by purchasing some "on sale" Big Rivers from Rockin Ron, cannibalizing the reed plates and putting them in some old blown out MS Blues harps.

They are pretty good harps, and if I did not get so much pleasure out of building my own, I think I would just buy Manjis and be done with it.
slaphappy
180 posts
Mar 24, 2016
2:03 PM
this thread inspired me to work on my Bb Blues Harp which I bought when I was desperate one day at Guitar Center..

I took down the gaps and man what a difference! The draw chord is still a little sour but I'll deal with that later..

I think it's interesting how bright and brassy this harp sounds considering it has no side vents in the covers. I rather like it!


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4' 4+ 3' 2~~~
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Harmonica is Life!

Last Edited by slaphappy on Mar 24, 2016 2:04 PM
1847
3320 posts
Mar 24, 2016
2:50 PM
bEAUgOdgEauYwj3v33l_vvU-Bt2OIITBJT8f_IGExcc

here is one with a custom titanium comb.
the reed plates lasted about 30 minutes before going out of tune. i dropped in some new plates.... good for another 10 minutes.
this was my favorite harmonica, just cannot keep it in tune.
Ofir Levi
30 posts
Mar 24, 2016
4:39 PM
The screws on that Blues Harp will require pliers after 2-3 openings.. They are made from some cheap alloy that the screwdriver just eats away.

Maybe I got a bad sample...
The comb on them is cheap feeling also and you can wiggle the slots around out of the box.

Marine band is much nicer.

Last Edited by Ofir Levi on Mar 24, 2016 4:40 PM
SuperBee
3533 posts
Mar 24, 2016
4:49 PM
i reckon that metal comb might be making things more prone to condensation. If I have a new harp that has noticeable tuning change that quickly, it's usually about moisture on the reeds.
Killa_Hertz
800 posts
Mar 24, 2016
6:34 PM
I like the blues harp "ok" They have potential. I just really don't like the comb. A blues harp with a custom comb would likely rock. Idk. Maybe ill try it one day. I have an F Eb and C. I customised the C comb and now is much more enjoyable to play. Rounded the tines. Sanded it flat. Soaked it in butchers block conitioner. Coated in multiple coats of shelac n flattened that
. Idk maybe ill bust the Eb out and give it another try.


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Rubes
969 posts
Mar 25, 2016
3:44 AM
.....its a no from me....
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