Manitoba Slim
1 post
Jan 01, 2015
6:08 PM
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Hello everyone. I'm new to this forum and have only been playing harp since August. That being said, I've been a blues fan ever since I was a kid dancing in my playpen to ZZ Top.
I've been playing into my Fender Frontman 15G with a Green Bullet, however, I'm ready to buy a dedicated Harp Amp. I'm looking for that fat, raunchy tone and my harp teacher just loves the new Fender EC Vibro Champ. However, after reading this forum it sounds like a 5 to 10 watt boutique harp is the way to go.
I've heard rave reviews for the HarpGear HG2 and read about the VHT Special 6, Memphis Mini, Sonny Boy and MegaTone as well. I'm looking to spend $500 to $1,000 so I'd love to hear your thoughts on the amps mentioned above as well as any others I should consider. I'd also like to hear about the benefits of a harp amp vs a similar guitar amp. Is feedback reduced etc?
Thanks for the advice. I'm excited to join the forum!
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Mojokane
778 posts
Jan 01, 2015
8:05 PM
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Welcome Slim!
My feeling on the best 5 - 10 harp amp.
I can't speak for the latest boutique amps on the market. I hear some are really good, too. Before you spend anything substantial on your gear.
Take heed from the following suggestions.
For me,the venue I play every week gives me the luxury of testing amps, for over all maximum gain.
I take into consideration, tone, portability, maintenance. And maybe the hip factor after all the other criteria is met.
Seeing as how it looks just fine, the Kalamazoo gets my vote. If you can find one.
Tone- killer vintage. A mid range we all love.
Vintage tone galore, adequate bottom, and decent highs.
You can always thicken up the tone with a good tone pedal.
Portability- it's so light and small, I can keep it in the car for back up. Some mutant amps have crashed horribly. And boy, was I glad I had it in the car!
All suggestions and commnent to follow might agree on the Zoo Model One. The Model Two is cool, too.
Maintenance- (two words) Greg Heuman.
Blowsmeaway.com
Anything you need!
Amazing chap, too.
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jbone
1844 posts
Jan 01, 2015
8:06 PM
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Vintage stock Fender Vibro Champ is working well for me in the duo. 5w, single 8", not a volume hero but tone for days and days. I use an EV M43U modded to hi z, a Shure 585, or an Astatic 332, all sound good with the 585 my favorite.
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arnenym
331 posts
Jan 01, 2015
10:40 PM
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IMO if you buy a fender, you pay a lot of money for a name and a vibrato you never use.
A Memphis mini or a HG2 give you a amp with tone control and they are very good amps for harp.
Last Edited by arnenym on Jan 01, 2015 10:42 PM
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SuperBee
2307 posts
Jan 01, 2015
11:48 PM
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the EC VC is a lot of money alright. too much for me...i mean too much money for not enough value
what are you planning to do with the amp?
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Kingley
3798 posts
Jan 02, 2015
2:55 AM
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The most readily available 5-10 watt amps for harp are probably the HarpGear HG2, Memphis Mini, VHT Special 6, Fender 5F1 Champ.
The HarpGear retails around $900 USD
The Memphis Mini retails around $500 USD
The VHT Special 6 retails around $200 USD
Original Fender 5F1 Champ sell for around $1500 USD
5F1 Champ clone usually go for around $500 USD
Personally I have the VHT. I have done a few minor mods to it and am more than happy with it. If I had the money I'd probably go for the HG2 or a 5F1 Champ clone.
Last Edited by Kingley on Jan 02, 2015 2:56 AM
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Goldbrick
811 posts
Jan 02, 2015
5:15 AM
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Ok- we all know about opinions and here is another one.
You have been playing harp for 4 months ??
If you dont play guitar or have another use for an amp I would say you dont know enuff about your own sound to buy a dedicated harp amp
Listen and play thru any amps u can--figure out what u really like-remember too-playing thru it and sitting in front of it may be very differnt
If the money is burning a hole in your pocket- go with your teacher to a good music store and listen while he plays thru it so you can really judge the amp.
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Fil
10 posts
Jan 02, 2015
5:41 AM
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Hi Goldbrick... "remember too-playing thru it and sitting in front of it may be very differnt". Not sure what you mean, could you explain a little how so? Thanks,
fil
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harpwrench
958 posts
Jan 02, 2015
6:33 AM
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The biggest part of fat tone comes from you and the harp. If you really want it? Once you know how to play decently, spend a lot of time practicing with the bullet unplugged. Don't play amplified until you hear what you're wanting to hear, like that. The nuances and compression, the "bark" that makes a listener's hair stand up on the back of their neck. When you figure that out, the goal becomes finding a mic/amp that doesn't mess up your sound. Kalamazoo would be my choice as far as that part goes.
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MN
369 posts
Jan 02, 2015
7:00 AM
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"I'm new to this forum and have only been playing harp since August. ... I'm ready to buy a dedicated Harp Amp."
Really?
My advice would be to take whatever you were going to spend on an amp and instead spend that money on more lessons.
Please don't take offense -- this is not snark ..... I really believe that an investment in more lessons with a qualified teacher will pay dividends FAR beyond what owning an amp will.
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Goldbrick
812 posts
Jan 02, 2015
7:55 AM
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Your sound perspective as a player is often quite different than what the audience hears from the front of the amp.
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DannyRanch
29 posts
Jan 02, 2015
7:57 AM
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I'm looking for opinions for the Pignose 7-100 amp
When money is an issue its better to start amping harp with something cheap (in my opinion)
I play and practice in the woodshed 99% acoustic as I'm shaping natural tone, I will practice with the bullet unplugged thats a awesome idea as I need to work on my amp tone lets start with getting confidence with the mic before.
I do have a bass amp but it is terrible for harp, I plan to use that amp for practicing and maybe busking soon, but it can be used for "real playing/gigs" as well?
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Greg Heumann
2928 posts
Jan 02, 2015
8:42 AM
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Come guys, there is no rule that says "you can't buy an amp until you know how to play". Playing through an amp is FUN. FUN is motivation. Acoustic Tone is developed for years, and will improve your amplified playing. Amplified tone takes practice too and there's no reason not to begin. Just understand that good amplified tone is a product of both gear and technique.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
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Last Edited by Greg Heumann on Jan 02, 2015 8:46 AM
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gutbucket
12 posts
Jan 02, 2015
8:52 AM
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I have to agree with Greg on this one - anything that motivates you to play more is a good thing, and for me, getting that first amp was a real eye-opener. So many more sounds were possible, and I wanted to explore them all, which led to more practicing, more attention to the sounds other amplified players were getting, and as a result, more attention to what I have developed as "my" sound...
The only small amp I have that falls into a 5-10 watt category is the Kalamazoo Model One, you can't go wrong with one of those, although if I was starting the game now, I would check out the VHT Special 6 for sure, I have heard so many good things about it on this forum, and the price is right...
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Manitoba Slim
2 posts
Jan 02, 2015
9:14 AM
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Thanks for the warm welcomes and great advice. I did already take beginner harmonica lessons, believe it or not there were only two other people in Winnipeg willing to sign up and they often no-showed so there were plenty of one-on-one lessons for me!
As Goldbrick pointed out, at this stage it would probably be very hard for me to tell the difference in tone between amps, which is probably why I was pleasantly surprised with the results I am getting with my cheap Fender Frontman. That being said, the Frontman keeps picking up radio signals while I'm playing ('Every Breath You Take' by the Police was almost crystal clear the other night). I guess the most important thing is I have the mic and an amp already, everything else will be gravy.
SuperBee, I would be using the amp to practice in my office or basement. Maybe a year or two down the road I could sit in on gigs or jam sessions. This is why I like the idea of the amps that run line-outs.
A few questions:
1) Are dedicated Harp Amps better at reducing feedback? I have to practice with the Frontman rather low due to feedback. Even the EC Vibro-Champ seems to max out at 4 due to feedback, and that's with my harp instructor using it.
2) Is there anyway to reduce radio signal transmissions that amps pick up?
Thanks for the help!
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FreeWilly
448 posts
Jan 02, 2015
9:34 AM
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As an owner of the VHT special 6 I would say: if you have the money and are willing to spend it, why not go with a good small amp like a Marble Max or a reworked Kalamazoo? Or a harp gear? That way you know that you're the problem. The VHT is good for the money, but not the best harp-amp in the world. It needs work. And even than you'll most likely want something better still. And throughout your career you will need a small amp. I would get something with a 10 inch speaker, if I had the money.
Except for when you want to learn about amps. Than changing tubes and speaker on the VHT and having tone-mods done will teach you a lot!
Just wait till a bargain on a used HG 2 or marble max comes along! That way you can sell almost at the buying price..
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Goldbrick
813 posts
Jan 02, 2015
11:19 AM
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Often the radio signal is picked up by the mic cable.
Sometimes its a bad solder joint or poor shielding in the cabinet
Also turn your cell phone off as they can cause interference near an amp
First thing I would do is try a different location to play and see if it goes away and always use a power strip and not direct to the wall
I am sure Greg knows way more about this than me.
Last Edited by Goldbrick on Jan 02, 2015 11:22 AM
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OzarkRich
527 posts
Jan 02, 2015
11:56 AM
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@DannyRanch: The Pignose 7-100 is great for the woodshed and busking in quieter locations. It's got a great "fuzz"tone but is a one trick pony and will never have a clean tone.
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TetonJohn
228 posts
Jan 02, 2015
1:04 PM
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OP says:
"...after reading this forum it sounds like a 5 to 10 watt boutique harp is the way to go..."
Well, yes, reading here would indicate it is ONE good way to go; lots of folks here play through somewhat larger to much larger amps. (You didn't say why YOUR needs are best met by a 5 - 10 Watt amp -- maybe it IS best for you -- don't know.)
If I were thinking $500 to $1000, I would strongly consider an old Masco MA17 head re-built by Skip Simmons especially for harp (yes, harp-specific helps with feedback and with reducing the treble). You'd have to get a speaker and a speaker cabinet, but it would come in on budget. Although the MA17 uses 2 6L6 power tubes, it is an old circuit, so it is not loud like a Bassman or other 2 6L6 amp that puts out 35 or more watts - I think the MA17 is in the 18W neighborhood.
Just my 2 cents.
Edit: and the coolness factor is off the charts ;-)
Last Edited by TetonJohn on Jan 02, 2015 1:07 PM
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Thievin' Heathen
454 posts
Jan 02, 2015
2:06 PM
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I'll have to go with Greg on this one. Been playing for 4 months? Jump in with both feet. Get one of Greg's Kalamazoos, and one of his mics while you're at it, and you will be on your way to Electric Blues Harp Nirvana.
Craigslist is full of old Kalamazoos, Gibsons, Epiphones, & Ampegs. HGs, Mascos, Bogners, Sonny Jr.s, & Heathkits. In about 5 years you will probably need to start thinking about adding a room onto your house.
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SuperBee
2308 posts
Jan 02, 2015
2:18 PM
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i have 14 amps now, 10 under 10 watt. i genuinely need a room for them. they are really hard to sell....and difficult to find a buyer here. maybe easier where you are.
buy things you either know you want to keep, or which have good resale potential. dont mess with VHTs, Epiphone valve Jrs and the like which you have to modify, unless you are happy to keep them forever or prepared to give them away to clear the clutter down the track...or recycle them. likewise solid state and gimmicky hybrid amps, or bargain brands.
i expect there may be a good market for harp amps where you are. amps are generally expensive to ship, so if you go harp-specific its good if you know you can sell without having to look too far distant for a buyer
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Harpaholic
572 posts
Jan 02, 2015
3:00 PM
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I played through two of Skip's harp modded Masco's in the past year that I didn't own and one I currently own. All three were very feedback prone. Some of you may have recently read on a another harp forum that a member sold his Skip harp modded ME-18 for the same reason.
Anyone else have this issue?
I ended up sending my Skip Masco to my amp tech to have it completely modded for harp, now it's one of the best amps I've ever owned for guitar and harp.
Skip does excellent work, well respected and knowledgable. He's not a harp player that I know of and apparently he doesn't always build his amps to best suit a harp player. Not trying to bad mouth his work, just sharing my experience.
There's a lot of things that have to be done to Masco's to reduce gain and voice for harp, and only a handful of tech's in the US that can do it right.
Maybe he purposely builds them that way to work for guitar and harp? I have my amp tech voice every one of my amps for harp and guitar through the different inputs. So when I sell it, it's good to go either way.
Greg's Kalamazoo's are a good option, he plays great harp, and he know's what he's doing with the Zoo's.
I don't think your ready for a Bassman yet. I've owned close to 100 vintage amps. If I had your budget I would get a Fender RI Princeton Reverb, killer for harp and guitar, hold there value and loud enough for small to medium gigs without micing. That would be my first choice.
I'm surprised Kingley left that one out!
Buy something you can grow into, something you can end up taking to a jam of gig. If you buy a 5 watt amp, it will always be a bedroom amp, or a very small gig amp.
Sure you can mic a 5 watt amp, but you can't hear it on stage without running it through a monitor.
Not my preference!
You get a 15-20 watt amp like the PRRI, it will be more useful in the future for harp and guitar.
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Jan 02, 2015 3:40 PM
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Kingley
3800 posts
Jan 02, 2015
4:55 PM
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"I'm surprised Kingley left that one out!"
Hahaha! Well the OP asked about 5-10 watts amps, so I didn't mention the Princeton Reverb as it's generally around the 15 watt mark. However as you know in my opinion the '65 Blackface Princeton Reverb Reissue is the best mid sized harp amp around. I'd buy one of those in a heartbeat.
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TetonJohn
229 posts
Jan 02, 2015
5:00 PM
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Just back in to say that my Skip Simmons MA17 has not had feedback issues for me. I always have an AFB+ on hand to put inline if needed, and I'm pretty sure I have never had to do that. I have the speaker pointed toward my head from the side (and out toward the audience not the band or they complain). Band is 4, drums, bass, guitar and me with a second guitar sitting in sometimes. I suppose if the band got really loud and I had to keep turning up, eventually it would feedback. Obviously, I can only speak for my specific amp and my band. (I do like the amp so much, I stopped using pedals.)
Last Edited by TetonJohn on Jan 02, 2015 5:02 PM
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SuperBee
2309 posts
Jan 02, 2015
6:23 PM
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if i could only have one of my current amps, there is no question that i'd keep the princeton reverb. its a stock silverface '78...stock apart from the speaker which is a weber 10A125-O (thanks, TetonJohn). and the standby. and bias adjustment pot. i don't think its 15 watts though. more like 12w the way its currently biased.
second would probably be a smaller amp. likely my home-made 5F1, but maybe my modded Epiphone VJ head. its a tough call.
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garry
550 posts
Jan 02, 2015
6:53 PM
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Given that you're just starting out, I'd spend $180 on the VHT and use that to learn about playing amplified with a tube amp. If you can't make that sound good, you're not ready for the others. Put the rest of the cash away until you know more about what you'll ultimately need.
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Last Edited by garry on Jan 02, 2015 6:58 PM
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Leatherlips
314 posts
Jan 02, 2015
8:57 PM
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Go the VHT. I use it for small venues and for practice. Change the output valve and the speaker to an Eminence Lil' Buddy and you're flying.
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6SN7
496 posts
Jan 03, 2015
11:52 AM
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@ harpaholic : I had a Skip Simmons Masco 17 and never had a feedback issue. It was "voiced" like the amps he did for Paul Oscher and Rick Estrin. He also worked on my 1958 fender tweed deluxe. Both amps were brilliant.
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jbone
1845 posts
Jan 03, 2015
12:11 PM
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I am not sure what some of you mean by an EC Vibro Champ. I have a stock Fender VC from about the mid to late 70's. Initially last year wife and I got one for a spare, and she fell in love with it. We decided to get another one so we'd have matching sound. First one we got local for about $350, not beautiful cosmetically but it does the job. Second one we spent a bit more for on ebay but still reasonable.
I've owned about a dozen amps over many years. Mostly my obsession was to get volume without feedback yet retain tone. Once I found that, I was satisfied except the thing weighed about 50 pounds and that made it a pain to move around. Eventually, as I moved more into duo mode and decided it's a great way to go, I opted to sell the Bassman. Since I was not gigging in big rooms with full bands it was no longer practical and we had all the small tables we needed! We already had Silvertone 1482's for the duo but the Champs break up at lower volume. And even easier to tote.
I got my first amp way before I was "ready", and it was a POS anyway. Later I did get a '62 Princeton which was great. NEVER pawn an amp you love.
There are a lot of choices out there, most of which I'm not familiar with. I am quite happy with the Champ or the Silvertone. Mostly we play at home or in small to medium venues. If I need more I have an sm57 to run to a p.a., but that's just me.
Adam has proven that it's not so much about volume but more about frequency. Why not look at his material on the Premier Twin 8 and the Shure ball mic he uses- PE33 I think.
You don't have to spend a fortune or have one particular rig if what you have or get makes you happy.
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SuperBee
2310 posts
Jan 03, 2015
2:37 PM
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jbone, its the Eric Clapton Vibro Champ...a fender custom shop amp. i believe the go for about US$1000. by all accounts its a great little amp and will probably hold its value...too much outlay for too little amp imho,
Last Edited by SuperBee on Jan 03, 2015 3:49 PM
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Harpaholic
576 posts
Jan 03, 2015
3:13 PM
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I'm thinking the two I didn't own must have been voiced for guitar even though I was told they were modded for harp?
The one I own (Audiosphere 36) needed some tweaking to make a good amp great. It also has several other mods not typically done on a Masco head.
I couldn't get the volume to 1-1/2 without it screaming. Now I can get it as loud as I need it using the stock tube set up.
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Jan 03, 2015 3:14 PM
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Harp Study
63 posts
Jan 03, 2015
7:42 PM
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Manitoba Slim-
For the amount of time you've been playing I'd suggest the VHT special 6 (the regular one, the ultra for some reason doesn't seem to fair as well with harp players for some reason). I have one along with a roland micro cube & a lone wolf harp attack pedal. They all have their place, but the VHT is an awesome amp and has the best sound of all the equipment I own.
However keep in mind a small 5 watt amp can be very loud to get the break up tone that we harp players are after. The VHT is capable of getting good tones at lower volumes, but the good stuff still needs some volume. Depending on your living situation a 5 watt +/- might be hard to practice with on a regular bases.
Another option is something like a zoom g3 pedal which has some great sounds available and allows you to play through head phones. Most often I practice using a zoom G1XN pedal with my harp attack pedal. Has great tones through head phones.
Just a thought. Either way I think you're better off getting a cheaper amp like the VHT (or a zoom pedal board) vs the more expensive amps and using the savings to take lessons of some kind. Good players can make anything sound good; so equipment is really overrated. No amp will make a beginner player sound like a very advanced player.
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jbone
1846 posts
Jan 03, 2015
8:14 PM
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@Superbee- thanks man. What we have here are stock VC's. Mine had a speaker replace but other than that they are original. In fact I think Jolene's is going in for a consult with our amp guy. We just recorded with it and he thinks it probably needs caps etc.
@Manitoba Slim- man if you can get a good sounding tube amp for $200, that sounds like a great starter. I would be mindful too of what mic I plugged into it. Definitely hi z like a Shure bullet, JT30, Shure 585, etc.
This is exactly why I hang around here. you guys are such a big help, and as long as I've been playing I still learn stuff! Thanks guys and gals.
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Goldbrick
815 posts
Jan 03, 2015
9:55 PM
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I think you will be pleasantly surprised if you try a Shure sm58 thru your frontman,
Solid state really aint all that bad. I have great luck with Princeton65, Yale or the ss champion.
Clean channel Dial bass up , treble down-- add the reverb and give it a blow
Good cheap fun until you know what you want
I think part of your problem is the green bullet-they look better than they play
I love vintage tube amps and have a few-that being said-- you wouldnt really want a 57 chevy as your daily driver. Older amps need tlc
The same guys that extoll the boutique tube amp will gush over Adam's battery powered mouse Trust your or your teacher's ears
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Gipsy
121 posts
Jan 04, 2015
1:37 AM
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Loads of great suggestions from very knowledgeable peeps who I suspect have over many years have tried numerous amp and microphone combinations before deciding what works for them. IMHO that is the main point. It works for them. Unfortunately you will have to decide what works for you. You've been given great guidelines so far, but I suspect your search will involve an element of trial and error.
To me the one point that all seem agreed on is that good unamplified tone should be the basis of good amplified tone. Perhaps using some part of your budget on this element of playing, would be money well spent.
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Mojokane
779 posts
Jan 05, 2015
9:29 AM
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well said, Gypsy...
update..
I like the Zoo Model ones so much, I just bought another one on Ebay for $200. Not to rub it in...just to prove a point...not sure what that is either..
I went out and gigged the other night. I had to sit in with a friends band. When this happens I take the ZOo.
All round tone & portability. ANd I got there earlier enough to not be a headache for him setting me up with a cable to hook meup through thte PA. I bring my own mic for that, too. I usually bring my own cable, too.
No problem. ALot of compliments on my playing, too.
As is, the Zoo's are the BOMB!
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Why is it that we all just can't get along?<
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catochan
43 posts
Jan 05, 2015
10:22 AM
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I'm guessing that a side benefit of playing with an amp is that it will help you to feel warm (and depending on how much fun you are having, maybe even break a sweat)!! Have fun! Hope you are not freezing in Manitoba today!! :)
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Cannon
1 post
Dec 20, 2015
6:57 AM
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I have the VHT 6 ,a Zoo 2 as well as a 65 Princeton Reverb RI...nothing wrong with the VHT especially for the price..Mine is stock and sounds pretty good...I am going to change the tubes out..The Zoo has a tone I have never heard anywhere else...Best small amp IMO ..I would get one from Greg as they are almost 50 years old and most need something.
Nothing wrong with starting to play through an amp early in your learning stage ...just be repectfull of others in the household until you hone your skills...if money is no object the Princeton is awesome...will set you back a grand...
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Cannon
2 posts
Dec 20, 2015
7:27 AM
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This guy does a nice side by side of the VHT and the Zoo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5vFoctbdfE
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