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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Ideas for learning how to sing?
Ideas for learning how to sing?
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Arcadiandj
46 posts
Dec 13, 2014
6:11 PM
We just had this amazing harp blowout here in Phoenix:

http://www.rhythmroom.com/event/640409-blues-harmonica-showcase-phoenix/

And watching the first series of players, it becomes very apparent that being able to sing really adds to the performance.

I figure you can learn just about anything on line nowadays. Do any of you have any suggestions or guidance for someone wanting to learn how to sing?
jbone
1830 posts
Dec 13, 2014
7:33 PM
I don't have any specific links but I would recommend at least a visit or two with a live voice coach. Believe me, you can get off on the wrong foot and do damage to your vocal cords if you are not cautious. Unlike a harp you can't replace a cord if it goes out! A year ago I was diagnosed with the beginning of a polyp on one cord and had to just not sing for 3 months. Very hard once you've been doing it for a while! In my case about 20 years. I had been straining too hard due to a crappy p.a. In my case abstinence worked but I lost time with my new partnership since i couldn't sing.

You may find someone who would do Skype I guess. Taking care of your voice, and learning good breath control, will also improve your harp playing by giving you better control of air focus as you address a harp.
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BronzeWailer
1545 posts
Dec 13, 2014
7:56 PM
This guy is very good. He almost always has exercises to practice what he just preached.

https://www.youtube.com/user/NewYorkVocalCoaching



So is the one below, although she seems to be aimed more at pop singers.



https://www.youtube.com/user/TheSongbirdtree
BronzeWailer's YouTube

I have been taking 1-on-1 lessons for nearly two years and shoulda started earlier. Never mind.

People tell me I am making progress. :)
nacoran
8156 posts
Dec 13, 2014
8:21 PM
Find your vocal range. If you've got the ear to play harp and you know your range you can sing a bit.



It is worth getting some good instruction though. I'm another one who blew out their voice. (For me it was grunge. It takes a lot of practice to sing like Kurt Cobain without blowing out your voice.)

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Jim Rumbaugh
1064 posts
Dec 13, 2014
10:27 PM
When I went to Augusta Blues week in Elkins, WV, the most important thing I learned was not from the harmonica classes, it was from the blues singing classes. It's about $800 to $1000 for the week, but it can change your musical life.

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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
Greg Heumann
2912 posts
Dec 14, 2014
12:09 AM
I learned by doing it. I got braver and braver. I copied people I admired. I've never had a voice lesson.
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/Greg

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Kingley
3773 posts
Dec 14, 2014
12:15 AM
I've learnt the same way as Greg. Taking lessons from a voice coach can be hugely beneficial though obviously. The only real piece of advice I can give you is to sing all the time. Sing everywhere you possibly can and record yourself whenever possible. I sing in the shower, making food, at work and riding my motorcycle. It's just like anything else in the world, the more you practice the better you'll get.

Last Edited by Kingley on Dec 14, 2014 12:16 AM
Gipsy
116 posts
Dec 14, 2014
12:25 AM
Kingley is spot on. The more you practice the better you get. The benefit of taking some form of tuition early on is to learn what to practice, and how to practice it correctly.
JustFuya
667 posts
Dec 14, 2014
12:57 AM
I used to get dragged along to my Dad's choir practice in order to give the rest of my family some peace (4 sisters & one Mom). I would sit, huffing in the loft with my arms crossed, but my eyes and ears were not immune. I didn't practice what was preached until much later but I had learned from the best. Sing from your diaphragm because your soul is close by. (This works on anything requiring wind ... even harp.)
GamblersHand
547 posts
Dec 14, 2014
3:05 AM
Try to sing without tensing up. Consciously (then unconsciously) avoid raising your shoulders, which often happens when you're tense or reaching for a high note.

For most people high notes aren't usually as difficult as they think, try to reduce your effort rather than force it. Visualise the note, and make sure you retain support in the diaphragm rather than focus on your throat.

Start breathing exercises and work on scales and intervals.

Much like harmonica, don't just concentrate on notes and tone and forget phrasing. Listen to singers like Louis Jordan, Taj Mahal or James Harman and how they place a note against the beat, the note length etc.

Also experiment around how you deliver a song and try to improve the delivery. I found that revisiting songs I had sung for many years was useful as due to habit I was repeating the mistakes and short-cuts made when I was a much worse singer.
2chops
309 posts
Dec 14, 2014
5:20 AM
Learning how to breath properly and relax is key. Years of martial arts training had that well set within me. But last year my band went to an all day vocal seminar put on by Sherri Gould and her husband. Learned a lot of good tips on practice and performance. Cool thing about this particular work shop is that her husband is a long time pro sound tech. So he had some really good band/sound oriented advice too. Lessons or workshop fees is money well spent. Even if you only go once and apply what you've been shown. Have fun.
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I'm workin on it. I'm workin on it.
DannyRanch
24 posts
Dec 14, 2014
10:41 AM
FreeWilly
440 posts
Dec 14, 2014
10:44 AM
I loved the 5 or so vocal lessons I took. I now know how to train my voice in a healthy way.
6SN7
494 posts
Dec 14, 2014
11:11 AM
yeah, just do it.
in the car, in the shower, when you take a walk.
fnd a couple of songs and make them your own
good luck
kudzurunner
5183 posts
Dec 15, 2014
4:29 AM
If you're attempting to sing blues and you're not a black Mississippian or Chicagoan, you'd be well advised to spend at least a little time thinking about repertoire. Some songs, generally those that make heavy use of idiomatic black vernacular, just don't sound becoming when they come out of the mouth of a white boy (or man). "Hoochie Coochie Man" is a great example. By the time you get to the line "the seventh doctor say," nobody is buying it. The same thing is probably also true with "Back Door Man," especially if you're making an effort to track the vocal inflections of Howlin' Wolf.

This to me is the single greatest challenge facing white blues singers: many of them haven't figured out how to create powerful, expressive, idiomatic voices; voices that take the subset of black expressive vocal techniques THAT ARE ACTUALLY WORKABLE, as opposed to 100% of what's available, say, to a guy like Bobby Rush, who came up in the black church and sounds right using every one of those techniques. The result is deliberate or unconscious burlesque, which might be defined as comic mimicry.

Nothing I've said should be interpreted as meaning that I don't think that white guys can be powerful, believable blues singers. Of course they can. Gregg Allman, John Mayer, Tab Benoit, Tad Robinson, Joe Bonamass, our own Greg Heumann, and Mark "Muleman" Massey all pass the test. I heard Massey on Bluesville yesterday and was impressed once again by his believability. He's got the sound and the feeling in his voice. He's not jiving.

That's all I'm suggesting: start listening for the jiving element. Start listening for slippage between the cultural origins of the singer and the level of vernacular swagger he's putting on. If you begin to listen for it, you may begin to hear things that disturb you. Don't make those people your models as singers! And remember that it's not all about rough. Some of the best blues singers are smooth. Greg H. is smooth. He's a good model.
Goldbrick
794 posts
Dec 15, 2014
6:21 AM
I think Johnny Winter and Paul Oscher could handle any down home references--but your right that it can sound silly from some guys






And some can do it with their own touch of irony

Rhartt1234
160 posts
Dec 15, 2014
8:04 AM
I agree with Greg. Just do it. Getting over the fear of singing is 90% of the battle.

I also agree with Adam that finding an appropriate style in repertoire and, equally important, delivery is key. That gravelly voiced white guy trying to sound black, ala JohnnY Winter, drives me nuts.

The late, great Lynwood Slim was a man who had never tried to sing like anyone but himself and did so beautifully.
FBInsMan
28 posts
Dec 15, 2014
2:50 PM
Anyone else notice the number of white "women" singers coming out of England that are extremely soulful singers? If you close your eyes I bet you can't tell if they are white or black! Case in point

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"The only way to get better is to play a little outside your comfort zone every time you play!"
Milsson
179 posts
Dec 15, 2014
3:20 PM
It's funny that no one mention the most important thing. You have to sing a lot! All the time and every were you feel comfortable doing so. Its a powerful instrument that is hard to control if you want to be able to sing with your whole dynamic range within your vocal range.
When i started to stop be so damnd ashamed over my self and started singing A LOT i developed a lot. Im not the greates singer but ive come a loooong way.
One thing more. Have fun with it! Over do it like jack black dont be scared to sing on the edge of your range joodle got damit. Its all going to help you get comfortable with you limits for the time you are going to do it live in front of a crowd.
And when you do stand there for the first time you are GOING to fail and the second and thrid.. But you'll get more and more comfortable and soon enough you'll sound like you are sitting at home singing when you are up on stage.
colman
326 posts
Dec 16, 2014
12:56 PM
Before i started playing harp and guitar i sang with a few dudes in the early 60`s ,doing doo-wop,R&B and black gospel.the sense of harmony and vocal lead has always been the torch in my blues playing.Sing on your instrument is where blues leaves scales and being a voice on your instrument.I been playing harp since 1968 and i`ve never played a scale,just singing !
For me western music is scales and blues is modal...
barbequebob
2794 posts
Dec 17, 2014
10:42 AM
I've always recommended harp players learn breathing and relaxation exercises from a reputable vocal coach and I never regretted the time I did it because as it helped me with the vocals, it helped improve my harp playing.

Many of you may want to go the cheap route and just look for videos on You Tube but personally, it's MUCH better to go to a good vocal coach because one of the very first things every reputable vocal coach will do is check your breathing, relaxation, and yes, your posture because ALL of these things have a HUGE effect on both vocals and harp playing.

Vocal coaches can often see bad habits that you've developed that 80-98% of the time you've never payed a single bit of attention to (and should've) that often hampers you in a major way.

Sometimes the problem can be if you tend to suck your gut in while singing, the way you pronounce either consonants or vowels (now's that's something just going for the cheap way out with a You Tube video will be totally useless for), or they can be doing things you've never thought could be a problem but can be, like making sure that you avoid any and all dairy products at least 2 hours before a vocal performance because it can cause mucous on your vocal chords, which can cause some big problems.

I can guarantee you that you WILL learn about breath control in a major way from a vocal coach and they will usually have exercises for you to do so you can learn it.

One thing you should invest in is some sort of chordal instrument and learn how to play it at least jsut enough for playing chords and melody. The single most ideal instrument is any sort of keyboard instrument so that you can visually see where your range is and right behind that, a guitar, but keyboards is the hands down best thing.

Don't worry if you don't have a rage wider than two octaves because I've heard vocalists who had as much as a five octave range who was essentially a walking snooze fest whereas another singer had, like Billie Holiday, a range of barely 1-1/2 octaves, but learned to get far more out of what he had than someone who had a much wider range.

Just like with any other instrument, with a coach you can start to learn to get different tonal colors out of your voice as well.

Good vocal coaches will also show you how to take proper care of your voice so you can avoid something just about every vocalist fears getting, which is nodes on their vocal chords.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
KC69
413 posts
Dec 17, 2014
12:19 PM
Jimi Lee turned me on to a book by vocal coach Roger Love, titled "Set Your Voice Free." Comes with accompanying CD to follow his exercises. Talks a lot about ranges and octaves through mastering the (head, face, and chest)voices. I thought it was worth the few bucks. Just thought I'd pass it along.
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And I Thank You !!
KCz
Backwoodz
Bluz
BronzeWailer
1549 posts
Dec 18, 2014
5:25 AM
I would say go out and sing as much as possible (to start with). I forced myself to sing in public - sometimes busking acoustically, just me and a few harps in a tunnel. It gets easier and better the more you do it.

But also, listen to what BBQ Bob says. There are so many aspects to singing you have no idea of until you have a teacher. I can only speak from my experience but my teacher has addressed, in addition to breathing and posture, things I was totally unaware of before I started: Adam's apple position, throat open-ness, soft palate position, tongue tension, breath flow versus tension, vowel formation, vocal fry, swapping from chest voice to head voice and much more.

I have been playing out for roughly four years.
The first guitarist I played with didn't sing, but he didn't want me to sing either. I spent six months improvising instrumentals for 3-4 hours at a stretch.

My second guitarist insisted I did most of the singing. I was a bit miffed when he said I needed to be a better singer (because he didn't sing at all) but he was right. I started taking lessons.

My third guitarist and I share vocal duties, but he increasingly wants me to do the singing.

If I think I am singing something well, my teacher jumps on my weaknesses. The good thing, is, she has always said "I can help you fix this." I'm not saying I am a great singer, but much better than a couple of years ago.

It's also safer to practice in the car than harp.


BronzeWailer's YouTube
Arcadiandj
47 posts
Dec 20, 2014
4:08 AM
As always, thank you everyone! What an amazing response! VERY helpful.


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