harpdude61
2205 posts
Oct 20, 2014
5:39 AM
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I really don't understand why a custom overblow harp would cost any more than a custom harp that was set up for a non-overblower.....You do all the flattening, tuning, embossing, this, that, and the other to both harps. You gap them both I'm sure...only the gaps are a little tighter for the overblower. My experience is you don't need any different reed shaping for one over the other.
Educate me here.
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arzajac
1500 posts
Oct 20, 2014
6:32 AM
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There is a lot more work to be done than gapping.
The goal is not to just get the harp to cough out an overblow on some holes. That's easy. There are "Ascending-only" OBs that you hit by playing the draw note and rolling into the OB. You can set those up on most harps with just gapping.
Better OBs are passing-note overblows that you can hit dead-on but you need to work harder to pop them in.
"Melody note" overblows should play with as much ease, control and especially tone and volume as when you play any other regular or bent note. Quality results require more work.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Oct 20, 2014 6:32 AM
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harpdude61
2206 posts
Oct 20, 2014
6:48 AM
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Thanks for your response arzajac. Never really thought I needed a different set-up for an OB as a passing note or a wailing note. I will say I do play both those without playing any note in the same hole first.
Playing the blues scale from nine blow down in cross harp I play 7 overdraw and 6 overblow as first notes on the hole.
You didn't really get specific so I guess those are trade secrets. I certainly don't "pop" overblows.
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HarpNinja
3969 posts
Oct 20, 2014
7:55 AM
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More work = more time = more labor = increased labor costs
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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ridge
558 posts
Oct 20, 2014
9:55 AM
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I'm more of a learn to fish rather than simply receive a fish. Working on harmonicas is time consuming and you're not always rewarded for your patience.
As the way I've incorporated and used overblows has changes, my tastes change accordingly. It used to be that gapping was good enough for the result I wanted. Then it was gapping and embossing. Then it was embossing the whole slot. Now I spend most of my time working on the shape of the reed and trying to better understand the impact that has.
Now I'm not so worried about the overblows as I am about the overall playability of the instrument. How easy are my half step bends to hit? How responsive can I get the low end while maintaining good volume?
With the amount of time I've casually spent doing this, it might actually have been cheaper to just buy some fish.
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Ridge's YouTube
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barbequebob
2734 posts
Oct 20, 2014
11:13 AM
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@harpdude61 -- Some years ago on another forum, I got a personal message from a player who bought a Filsiko custom harp and complained that he couldn't do overblows with them. When I replied to him, the very first thing I asked him was that did he specify RIGHT OFF THE BAT that he played overblows and he told me that he did not and then I told him that you HAVE to specify because the work is much more time consuming than for the average blues player who doesn't overblow and so therefore, it becomes much more time consuming and costs more money. His reply to that was that he didn't know and also that he wanted the lowest cost possible.
If you're an overblow player who wants the cheapest cost in customs possible, you're being the model for the old saying, "penny wise and pound foolish>" Why? If the customizer can't play overblows properly, they obviously cannot customize harps for that kind of player.
Every customizer worth their weight ALWAYS charges more for the overblow service because just getting the gapping right alone is a lot more work, having fooled with it myself for the hell of it.
A player who doesn't overblow but tends to play really hard is probably gonna have the customizer use a wider gap to accomodate that style, but even that is FAR easier than OB setups.
About 10 years ago on the Filisko guild site, even while charging more for OB setup, they made a note at the time that not all pops and squeals associated from that playing style could be eliminated entirely, but even the very best in the business, their methods CONSTANTLY EVOLVING and get improved upon and for the last 6 years, you no longer see them mentioning pops and squeals can't be completely eliminated because their methods now get rid of entirely.
Bottom line is that if you want customs for overblows, be prepared to pay more because the labor is FAR MORE INTENSIVE that it is for most any other playing style and you HAVE to get them from customizers who actually are able to play them and often times, the really low prices customizers won't be good for OB players at all.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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arzajac
1501 posts
Oct 20, 2014
1:00 PM
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"Playing the blues scale from nine blow down in cross harp I play 7 overdraw and 6 overblow as first notes on the hole."
The 6 OB is not very telling because it's pretty powerful on most harps. If I were customizing a harp for you, the next thing I'd ask you about is how you find playing the descending blues scale in first position where you hit the 4 OB in the same way you describe hitting the 6 OB. I reckon you only play blues and don't play in 12th, or 11th position - but I'd also ask about that and a few other things.
There is not a one-size-fits-all harp, either. For example, Carlos Del Junco, Howard Levy, Adam Gussow and Jason Ricci are all overblow players but their "perfect" harp setup is completely different from one another.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Oct 20, 2014 1:01 PM
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harpdude61
2207 posts
Oct 20, 2014
1:12 PM
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Great answers from everybody. Thank you!
Other than taking a couple more minutes for gapping I'm not sure what the specifics are of all the labor intensity. However, if BBQ Bob and mike say it takes longer that is good enough for me.
I am basing my question on being able to pull a new Golden Melody out of the box (they have been great and very much in tune the last 3 or 4 years), spend 10 to 15 minutes gapping, and the harp is show ready for me. I will play the harp a few minutes for break-in before gapping.
Part of it, and I may be wrong, is that some over-blowers play less efficiently than others. Embouchure, resonator size, and harp brand all play a part in ease of overblows. Maybe some need more than others.
Jason once said that an OB is just another note to him, like another bend..no thought given to it.
ridge I feel ya man. Beyond gapping I do not have patience or time for several hours of harp surgery on a regular basis. I choose to buy my fish. If catfish taste great to me then I'll pass on the swordfish.
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harpdude61
2208 posts
Oct 20, 2014
1:18 PM
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arzajac..I do play blues in first and use 4,5,6 overblow. Love bending the 5 ob up 1/2 step to get the major 5th and on some of my mid range harps I'm comfortable bending 6 OB up a whole step to the root note of the scale.
I also use overblows to get the blues scale in 5th position.
I do admit that I am lagging in 12th position. I'm sure if I played more major sounding tunes I would get into it. I should try one of your GMs!
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harpwrench
927 posts
Oct 20, 2014
3:53 PM
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Embossed slots aren't as forgiving when it comes to gapping harpdude. Not unusual to spend as much time on one reed as you say you can gap an entire harp. I can build a very mean harp in less than an hour but better players can tell in a minute if you've let anything slide. So my setup is extremely thorough and detailed. Doing it this way takes time but virtually eliminates come-backs, degradation of play over time, and reliability issues. It also mostly makes "customized to the player" pretty much not needed because the harps will do whatever they're commanded. That's why I call them high performance harps.
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www.spiersharmonicas.com
High performance harmonicas.
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Kingley
3740 posts
Oct 20, 2014
9:42 PM
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I agree with all that's been said so far. It's simply that the more work/time that's put into something, the more it costs. Simple economics.
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HarpNinja
3973 posts
Oct 21, 2014
5:28 AM
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"customized to the player" pretty much not needed
Joe, don't sell yourself short. You tune to the customer's wants and are willing to set up overbends a la cart. I understand what you meant, but I think potential clients might be confused by that statement.
I've played several of Joe's harps and back his statements. He's one of only three people I'd buy customs from (although I customize myself and generally play my own harps).
There is a fair amount of more time setting up for overbends, even if you are highly proficient at doing as such. IME, there are sometimes kinks to work out that would go unnoticed if you weren't overbending. For example, five blow and draw may play perfectly, but when you hit the ob, there is some rattling.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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