Please share records or videos on what you think are some of the best harp solo's in first position. I have a link below of a great tune played by Magic Dick in first position.
I think for the low end Big Walter's Hard Hearted Woman and Eric Clapton with Portnoy Hoochie Coochie Man. For combining low with high end Horton's Trouble in Mind. I tend to use Jimmy Reed's Little Rain for my students' first high note solo.
The Fox Chase and Pan American blues in the DeFord Bailey video above are in second position -- key of D on a G harmonica -- not in first.
Last Edited by timeistight on Sep 28, 2014 2:00 PM
I love that Gwen Foster piece. What genre would that be considered?
DeFord Bailey is one of my favorites but I was wndering how to get that train moan in first position! :-)
Because I play a lot of folk, classical and hymns, I use first position a lot. I ave not got the hang of first position blues too well yet.
I have been experimenting with an exercise I read on this post. turn on the radio and use the harp in your hand to jam along no matter what the key. That is helping me get more comfortable with the various positions.
This Video from 1929 Australian Harmonica Legend Percy Spouse is a fine example of 1st Position Playing and has no Blues influence whatsoever. Harmonica in Australia has a very rich History.
To me there is no other 'first position' solo as fierce as "Back To Get Ya" by Magic Dick. It gives me chills everytime. It's on The J. Geils' Band Bloodshot album and the solo is with a 'C' harp.
Here's a link to the audio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0N3MwlM8n8
The solo starts at 2:02.
Turn it way up and listen closely to the second note of the solo and the note that starts to rip at 2:23...WOW!!!!
Last Edited by MeMan on Sep 29, 2014 8:31 AM
Question - are there ways of playing first position blues without using overblows (on a normally tuned harp), that is, in the lower and middle registers? If not, did Big Walter use overblows in the low end on his first position blues?
There are many ways of playing first position blues without using overblows.
First position is not just that high end stuff. There is also a lot of low end (1st 4 or 5 holes) first position playing, using normal bends - not overblows.
The challenge for some blues players is how to negotiate the middle ground between these two extremes. ---------- The Iceman
Iceman, I guess I am confused (actually, I'm sure of that). I do understand the top register for 1st position and can play it okay. But every chart I've looked at for 1st position in the lower end shows a 1 Over-blow which at this point I can't produce. So how do you get around this playing low end 1st position
have never seen a chart for low end 1st position blues playing that needs any OB.
You do need good control on notes created through normal bending technique in holes 2 inhale and 3 inhale.
I don't have a great catalog of 1st position blues tunes in my head, so will defer to others to suggest some songs that are in 1st position playing at the low end for Rgsccr. ---------- The Iceman
Thanks for the reply Iceman. I shouldn't have said "every" chart as if I've seen a bunch of them. But I did see a couple of charts that showed this. Anyway, I do have some 1st position songs that use the low end - a couple of which have been mentioned - Ludella and Hard-Hearted Woman. I'm not that concerned about this just trying to get better and learn more.
@Rgsccr -- I've seen Big Walter dozens of times during the 70's and often hung out with him and I know for a fact that he never used overblows, period, let alone playing in 1st position. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I dunno so much about great 1st pos solos; the only 1st pos blues stuff I have is bright lights and honest I do. They are more like 'rudimentary' solos from me. I just try to cop how jimmy reed played. But, I gave an ear to what Taj Mahal did with bright lights on the jimmy rogers 'blues blues blues' album. There's a low octave lick in there I figure I'll get around to breaking down sometime
Lots of first pos. licks in the low octave. The classic ones just avoid the blue/minor third (1ob) and substitute the major third (2b). ----------
Last Edited by mr_so&so on Oct 02, 2014 10:49 AM
Destin, you are hip to Mitch Kashmar right? He plays the some of the sweetest 1st position stuff I've ever heard. That 7 blow vibrato he does is just killer.
4' 4+ 3' 2~~~ -Mike Ziemba Harmonica is Life!
Last Edited by slaphappy on Oct 01, 2014 8:47 PM
Yeah, around the :42 point in Rhythm Willie, he takes the cake. But the whole thing is masterful. It makes me feel as though, in some ways, playing has devolved since his day. With all the folks copying "Juke," you'd think at least a few people would make a point of really nailing this style of playing. I suspect Joe Filisko can do it, but after him....?
Agreed with raves about Kashmar. Whew.
Can't Stop Rockin': Superb! That is what you call locked in the pocket. Not a single false move--and, as he's said in several interviews, remarkable freedom of phrasing, more like a jazzman than a bluesman in terms of note-duration choices....
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Oct 02, 2014 4:52 AM
Great Thread guys! In agreement with Adam on the Mitch Factor as well as the amazing lac of people playing the older pre-war 1st style ala Rhythm Willie, Jazz Gillum etc...and the others posted here. It's crazy how many notes are available up top in this position. Michael Rubin already mentioned this one but I thought I would second it as well as post the music. This Tune here is actually the song that made me fall in love with the blues. I liked harmonica initially but not really blues I was only listening to blues to admire and study the harmonica from a technical approach until I came upon this tune at the right time in my life, I think I was 15…It changed everything and like Michael said is a remarkable example of stellar work in 1st position. I will point out the navigation of the very major complete middle octave here in a way that contrasts the blue notes masterfully as being a very jazzy success story here for this position. Lots of nice vids here.
Last Edited by Moon Cat on Oct 02, 2014 10:57 AM
My all time favorite 1st position stuff by Rhythm Willie sadly isn't on You Tube, and that's the tune Wailin' Willie and he just swings his butt off and the stuff he did is so different from just about every harp player I've ever heard on 1st position regardless of what genre the music is and I can hear very distinct Louis Armstrong influences in his playing. The very first time I heard that tune, I played that recording to death until I had every little bit of it down to not only every note, but the dynamics, etc..
Jason, funny that you posted Big Walter's recording of Trouble In Mind that he did on Alligator because I saw him tons of times as well as hung out with him in the 70's and he never played it in 1st position at all, and always in E with an A in 2nd position. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Embedding disabled - but here is Kim Wilson with Anson Funderburgh - great 1st position work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaELSONtth4&feature=youtu.be
Rhythm Willie is from another planet. Nobody, then or now, plays jazzy bluesy first position harp like he did. Jumping ahead two/three decades, here are the three best first position recorded harp performances, none of them merely solos:
1. Sonny Boy Williamson - Trust My Baby
2. Walter Horton - Hard Hearted Woman
3. Walter Horton, Trouble in Mind
Moon Cat, I agree with you about Trouble in Mind. A classic performance. What caught my ears, so long ago, was the rich, passionate sound pouring out when Walter hit the lower register. What also caught my ears, don't jump on me, is that the guitar and harmonica sometimes didn't match pitch wise. Someone was flat, or someone was sharp a few times in the song. I'll point out the exact spots if someone challenges this. That said, I love this song, and this performance. If you want to learn first position harp, listen to this song.
1) SBW II "Trust my baby" 2) Rod Piazza "Murder in 1st degree" 3) Walter Horton "Hard Hearted Woman" 4) Gary Primich "Money Habbit" You may check Don Les work too. Plenty of tunes in 1st position without overblow.
@SuperBee -- the entire point of the Jimmy Reed sound is to allow the groove to drive the music rather than whoever plays lead forcing the groove, which means you're driving, but UNDERSTATED, and many players often have an extremely difficult time dealing with it partly because they have a problem learning how to use space properly and when most people try to do Jimmy Reed, they often play too hard and he was not a hard player at all, plus unlike many who do 1st position, he occasionally uses chords or double stops. The other thing to remember is that he is also playing guitar with harp on a rack. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Michael Rubin...are you sure Portnoy is in 1st here? Sounds like the opening lick is a D harp in second and the opening lick is 1 draw 2 bent full step 1 draw 2 bent full step 2 unbent
I remember learning it from this CD in second position as one of my first licks. I could very well be wrong. So you think the opening lick in 1st on an A harp is 3 blow 3 draw bent full step 3 blow 3 draw bent full step 4 blow
thanks BBQBob,i think i know just what you mean. and i think that quality has a lot to do with JR playing the harp in the rack, being tuned in to the groove he was playing on guitar. i took up bright lights to get myself playing the top end. i play it with tongue on harp, not sure if JR did that. i couldnt slap it much for a long time but lately i find im doing more of that.
mainly i had a crack at it after jimi lee was talking to me about overblows and offhand suggested that 8 blow bend was a lot like a 6 overblow. i figured i ought to brush up the blow bends. that actually worked by the way. i was getting nowhere with overblows until i became comfortable and fluent at the blow bends. anyway, there may be better ways to learn i guess,but learning to play along with jimmy reed way i think has taught me a lot more than just how to play the songs.
I stand corrected on the 1/2 step draw bend. I knew that. Two draw/3 blow are same..lol ...sounds like all the same notes are available in 2nd ---------- www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
Last Edited by harpdude61 on Oct 04, 2014 3:45 AM
Harpdude, Notice the order of the lick's notes is different than you thought as well.
Also, 2 draw and 3 blow are the same in note alone. What I mean is tonally they are completely different and if you want to learn to emulate the masters, I highly recommend considering which one is played when.
Last Edited by Michael Rubin on Oct 04, 2014 6:55 AM
