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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Where is 8th position?
Where is 8th position?
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the_happy_honker
183 posts
Sep 08, 2014
2:28 AM
I didn't know, so I made the following chart:


Positions on the Richter Diatonic Harmonica
6
10 10 7 11 7 11
-------------------------------------------
1 5 2 1 5 2 1 5 2 1 : blow
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
3 2 6 3 12 4 6 3 12 4 : draw
-------------------------------------------

8 7 9 8 8 9 8
12 4
11

Edit:
(Nuts! Everything looked OK in the editor, but then got screwed up when I posted it. I deliniated with tabs. Does anyone know how to keep the columns straight? My bold/italics formatting got wiped by the editor, too. Sorry!)

Last Edited by the_happy_honker on Sep 08, 2014 2:35 AM
Baker
374 posts
Sep 08, 2014
4:38 AM
You can find the blues scale in all 12 positions here:
https://www.harptabs.com/song.php?ID=5150
harpdude61
2115 posts
Sep 08, 2014
7:22 AM
8th position is 1/2 step below the band key. If the band is in "C" , you would use a "B" harmonica. Your root notes would be at 1 draw bent half step, 4 draw bent 1/2 step, 7 overdraw, and 10 overdraw. Probably one of the least useful positions, but i'm sure someone will tell me I am wrong.
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Kaining
57 posts
Sep 08, 2014
9:25 AM
Wait, aren't position following the circle of fifth* ?
Woudn't the 8th position be Db on a C then ?
C,G,D,A,E,B,F#,Db

*Even if i thought this was weird as hell, as playing second position is certainly not playing in the key of G when you follow strictly music theory.


God, that position harp language makes NO SENSE to me and i have been blowing my harp and my brains out on that subjet for 12 years now.

Hmm, that's it, i think i will seriously not bother anymore with this, nobody, as in other musician, is understanding any of it anyway and i certainly can't.
Komuso
403 posts
Sep 08, 2014
9:32 AM
Yes, 8th is Db if the base harp is C



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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream

Last Edited by Komuso on Sep 08, 2014 9:33 AM
mr_so&so
862 posts
Sep 08, 2014
9:44 AM
harpdude61 is correct for the case where the band (song) is in C. Happy Honker, why are you interested in 8th position?
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mr_so&so

Last Edited by mr_so&so on Sep 08, 2014 9:44 AM
harpdude61
2116 posts
Sep 08, 2014
10:53 AM
Thanks mr so&so...Careful guys. Easy to get it backwards. I didn't mention a "C" harp. If the band key is "Db", then you would use a "C" harp for 8th position..
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the_happy_honker
184 posts
Sep 08, 2014
12:19 PM
I'm not, really. It was just a way of leading into the idea for the chart.

Until yesterday, I only knew the holes/breath direction for the tonic notes of positions 1, 2 and 3. Then I ran across a video by Chris Michalek, where he demonstrates 11th position. But where the heck does 11th start? He's talking to the cool people who just know that sort of thing and doesn't say.

I've gotten pretty OK at overbending and have been trying to put them to good use learning the major scale in more than just 1st and 2d positions that I am used to (and from there learn the minor scales, the pentatonic scales, etc, so I can be more stylistically versatile and have more fodder for my solos).

Anyway, I could (and did) figure out 11th position pretty quickly with the Circle of Fifths and the harp layout, but why not make a more general mental map of the positions in relation to the holes on the harp? That is what my figure tries to do.

So I just replaced the notes in the harp layout diagram with the corresponding positions. I found the result satifying enough that I thought I would share it.

I'll try copying the "view source" html into the editor and hope it doesn't barf on it. If that doesn't work then maybe I'll break out my ancient manuel of html encodings. Can anyone point me to the "Practice your Forum Skilz" thread? Thanks!

PS: mr so&so, didn't you once post something about the importance of learning the major scale?

Last Edited by the_happy_honker on Sep 08, 2014 12:26 PM
mr_so&so
863 posts
Sep 08, 2014
12:37 PM
@Happy Honker, yes, I did once post about learning the major scale and how that sets you up to learn several key positions from the modes of that scale... a long time back. Like you, I also worked out some charts for myself (basically chromatic scales tabs for all the positions) quite a while back. A link to them is in my profile if anyone is interested. I believe mine are more informative and useful than those linked to above, but you can find similar info in many places these days.

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mr_so&so

Last Edited by mr_so&so on Sep 08, 2014 12:38 PM
Martin
681 posts
Sep 08, 2014
4:21 PM
Can you explain to me the point of talking about "band key"?
8th position: C#/Db on a C harmonica -- isnĀ“t that all that it takes?
Where does the "B harmonica" come in?
Komuso
404 posts
Sep 08, 2014
9:53 PM
@Martin
You can look at in two ways.

What is 8th position on the C Harp in my hand?
A: C#/Db

or

The song is in Db, so what harmonica key do I need if I want to play in 8th position?
A: C

Adjust accordingly per key, or just use a circle of fifths to quickly show you.

>>Where does the "B harmonica" come in?
That came from Harpdude using the second approach "8th position is 1/2 step below the band key. If the band is in "C" , you would use a "B" harmonica."

where band key = song key
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream

Last Edited by Komuso on Sep 08, 2014 9:54 PM
nacoran
7985 posts
Sep 08, 2014
10:37 PM
(Ah, the buggy display glitch. Yeah, it's a pain to post things in a chart like form here. One solution is to take a screenshot of what you want to post and post it as a picture. Not ideal, but in a pinch it will work. Or you can do tricks with HTML I think, but that's above my pay grade.)



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Nate
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