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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Suzuki Promaster
Suzuki Promaster
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Leatherlips
275 posts
Aug 16, 2014
7:07 PM
I just bought a beautiful set of Suzuki Promaster harps.
They are really comfortable and look fantastic, but I don't like them at all.
The band I'm with plays hard driving Blues and Rock and these harps just don't cut it of me.
At practice last week, I played both the 'A' and the 'G' and could sometimes not get the 3,4,5 or 6 blow notes to play at all until I backed off. The same with the 'G' but also holes 9 and 8 blow were really mousy and weak.
I usually use Special 20's and have done for 25 years, but I thought I would shout myself a full set of 'better' harps.
I also found the draw hole 3 to be weak and flat before bending on both the 'A' and the 'G'.
I gapped the 'A' and the blow notes improved, but I don't like the draw 3 at all.
Maybe they are better as acoustic work, so I will save them for that. In the meanwhile, I'll go back to my Special 20's.
Philosofy
595 posts
Aug 16, 2014
7:32 PM
Bummer. I like the Promaster cover plates, but the aluminum comb tastes like tin to me.

Try contacting Daron at Suzuki USA to see if there is anything they can do for you. They might be able to gap and set them up better for you. I know Suzuki is high on customer service and satisfaction.
arzajac
1445 posts
Aug 16, 2014
8:04 PM
I have a handful of Promasters on my workbench right now.

Promasters are a like any other out-of-the-box harp. Some work fine but some don't. The reasons some don't is because they are mass produced and they are leaky or just not set up to play comfortably. I reckon the reason you are blanking out on some notes is because the gaps are set tight to compensate for the leaky comb. When a Promaster is airtight and the reeds are half-decently set up, you should be able to hit it hard and soft and get the all the notes/bends.

I still have a backlog, but if you get on the waiting list, I can get your harps working better than out-of-the-box. A Promaster should be bright and responsive.

If you play hard driving blues, a little more compromised tuning (or full-on 7-limit JI) can make the Promaster kick ass.

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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.

Last Edited by arzajac on Aug 16, 2014 8:06 PM
Thievin' Heathen
371 posts
Aug 16, 2014
8:10 PM
Promasters were the first Suzuki harps I tried, and that was 18 or 20 years ago. I have always been pretty happy with them, but they do not respond well to hard hitting. They also taste like a the battery terminals on my F150. I think I've got an A,D & C. If I was going to buy a set today, it would be the Manjis.
STME58
1031 posts
Aug 16, 2014
9:18 PM
I have a Bb Promaster I really like. The first time I took it apart I noticed deep saw marks in the comb. I also got the "battery" taste at a spot in the comb where the anodizing was chipped. I replaced the comb with one from Blue Moon Harmonicas and it is now my favorite harp for lyrical playing. There are no defects in the anodizing on the new comb so there is no taste. (The taste happens when your saliva completes the connection between the aluminum and the brass creating a battery that produces between 0.4v and 0.8v depending on the exact alloys. The anodize is an insulator and prevents the electrical connection from occurring, but only if it is fully in tact) I am sure they don't all have bad combs so replacing the comb might not help on another harp.
Leatherlips
277 posts
Aug 16, 2014
11:29 PM
If I lived in the US I might get one of you pro harp adjusters to set them up for me, but I live on the North Coast of NSW, Australia and there aren't too many knowledgable harp alterers around here.
At $320.00 though, I was hoping for something better.
Gipsy
90 posts
Aug 17, 2014
1:17 AM
I think the ' look ' of promaster harps is spot on, and those peeps who have a good one OOB, seem to love them. I've tried a few and have generally been unhappy with them. Surprisingly I've got a couple of Suzuki Hammonds, which seems to be the identical harp only in black and they were more or less spot on OOB. There was a thread some time ago suggesting that the combs for the Hammonds were in some way different to the promasters. Perhaps a change of comb might improve the promasters.
arzajac
1446 posts
Aug 17, 2014
4:20 AM
"At $320.00 though, I was hoping for something better."

I agree with you. But across the board, regardless of the manufacturer, you can run into the same situation. You buy a pro-level harp at a fairly high cost and it still needs a little work out of the box to reach its full potential (or even just play properly). It's a crapshoot. There is no harp that is consistent and free of defects out-of-the-box every time.

If there were, it would have eliminated the competition by now.

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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
walterharp
1484 posts
Aug 17, 2014
6:51 AM
I was really into them for a while, and still there is one that is front of my gig set.. no problems once i set it up. but I had the same experience the comb had gouges across and had to be sanded out before it got air tight enough. the taste is an issue at first but if you play a bit, the aluminum gets oxidized well enough there is no issue unless you really scrub them clean, then the process starts over.
mlefree
169 posts
Aug 17, 2014
10:14 AM
At the risk of insulting the OP, here's my humble take on this situation. You have two choices:

1) You could send them to Andrew or another accomplished customizer and they would set them up for you to your playing style. ($$)

2) Or, with all due respects to Andrew, you could learn to do what every serious player should know and that is setting the gapping on your own harmonicas. It is no secret that every OTOB harmonica needs to be adjusted for uniform response across all the reeds and to the playing style of the owner (e.g., hard or soft player).

I'm not talking about actual customizing, which would include amongst other operations, flat sanding of combs and reed plate, embossing reeds and setting their curvature, and finally after all that is done, setting the gaps for individual preference.

It's that last step that I am contending that essentially all members of Dirty South should learn how to do. There are a multitude of resources to help learn how to gap reeds. The tools are simple and inexpensive.

I think every knowledgeable player as well as accomplished customizer would agree that setting the reed gaps delivers the biggest improvement in playability, with embossing and curvature coming as second order enhancements. It also determines whether the harp will work best in the hands of a hard or a soft player. Finally, the consistency of the gaps from the lowest toned reed to the highest also determines the uniformity of reed response (not to say each reed will have the same gap, but that there should be a consistent change in the gap from the lowest to highest reed).

To get you started, here is clip 1 from the great Joe Spiers:



Good Luck and Happy Harping,

Michelle

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SilverWingLeather.com
email: mlefree@silverwingleather.com

Last Edited by mlefree on Aug 17, 2014 10:15 AM
arzajac
1447 posts
Aug 17, 2014
12:15 PM
In this case, I think a warped aluminium Promaster comb is a common thing and gapping won't solve the real problem. But other than the comb, the Promaster has lots of potential.

While I agree that everyone should become comfortable with gapping their own harps, gapping doesn't make a harp better in of itself.

It's an adjustment, not an improvement. Here's what I mean by improvement: A harp is only as good as it's dynamic range (breath force). A great harp has a lot of range - you can play a note softly and get great response and hit the same note hard and it will respond just as well without locking up.

You can pretty much assume a harp is not gapped optimally from the factory - so everyone should know how to adjust the gaps to get the most out of their instrument. Harps from the factory have a limited range, so you need to set it to a breath force you are comfortable with. Sometimes, the gaps are set so wrong that it's the gapping that's the biggest limiting factor. In that case, adjusting the gap can make the harp better. But there is a limit to what you can expect from gapping. Sometimes the range is so small due to other common problems, it's not possible to get it where you want it.

If you don't do any other intervention but gapping, you will find that you will often need to sacrifice one thing for another. Example, the harp will play okay softly, but you can't hit some notes hard.

As Leatherlips describes, the harp was gapped, but still falls short. I reckon the blow notes were made tight to facilitate the draw notes and bends, but that means the blow notes don't play under hard pressure. I strongly suspect the culprit is a big airleak. It could be that the reeds are not shaped well either. Either way, gapping will not fix it. The harp has a very small dynamic range. Gapping will give you options to play the harp, but you will be limited until you fix the underlying problem.

So, will gapping deliver the biggest improvement in playability compared to other interventions? It depends on the harp and it depends on the what the real problem is. I think everyone should get comfortable with gapping, but I think everyone should have realistic expectations of what gapping can actually do.

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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.

Last Edited by arzajac on Aug 17, 2014 1:59 PM
Leatherlips
278 posts
Aug 17, 2014
3:59 PM
Miefree, I'm not insulted by your response, but as stated, I did set the blow gaps to suit my playing but I'm still not as happy as I am with Special 20's.
Mostly I have found that playing my SP's out to the box is fine. Occasionally there is one which will need gaping, but to use two Suzukis and both need attention immediately is disappointing.
bublnsqueak
37 posts
Aug 18, 2014
7:04 AM
I've only been playing a short time. Started collecting SP20s as popular wisdom suggested.

I managed to score a bargain Promaster on fleabay. Quite liked it.

On the strength of that, lots of fantastic reviews and a bargain price from Japan I bought a set of Manjis.

Eagerly awaited, I hated them. Revisited the reviews and noticed that the positive reviews came from pros while the beginners were less impressed.

For some months I couldn't get on with them. Each time I compared with SP 20 or Promaster the Manjis came off worse. Very different.

Eventually I learned to gap and put all the other harps away. Only Manjis, nothing else for 3 months. Now I love the Manjis over the others.

My point is that it isn't the harp that breaks in but the player. I'm glad I persisted and now think of myself as a 'Manji Man.'
(still trying to lighten my breath though)

For me lighter breath made a big difference. Still more to learn on the gapping.

Its a journey.

Paul


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