|
Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
A question for the more experienced players
A question for the more experienced players
Page:
1
Kingley
3647 posts
Jul 29, 2014
1:21 AM
|
This is a question for the long time players on the forum.
I'm terrible at practicing properly on harmonica. What I end up doing most of the time is just playing harmonica, rather than working on specific things. Every now and then I'll hear a little combination of notes which will inspire me to learn them, but actual focused dedicated practice eludes me most of the time. I have small concentrated bursts where I'll make an effort to learn something every now and then. On a daily basis though I find it hard to maintain that kind of momentum.
I can remember the days when I was first learning and would spend every waking hour learning new things on harmonica. After a few years though that eased off and now dedicated practice has become a rarity.
Just wondering how the players who have been at it for a couple of decades organise their practice routine (if they have one at all)?
|
Komuso
356 posts
Jul 29, 2014
3:10 AM
|
That's a great question.
There's plenty of web info on the art and discipline of Focused Practice, but here's a good harmonica specific one from David Barrett:
Practice Reference Sheet
I have my own routine incorporating more or less the same.
Don't forget you can also practice mentally without the harp in many situations as well (eg: riding the train/bus)...recalling note layouts, working the micro muscles of your mouth/tongue pretend playing, mental visualisation of everything from playing a riff to walking on stage and performing etc
It's actually on my todo list to expand this area in HarpNinja.
If you're interested in the science of learning this is an interesting read, especially the last paragraph:
Fundamentals of learning: the exploration-exploitation trade-off
----------
Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Jul 29, 2014 3:17 AM
|
wheel
300 posts
Jul 29, 2014
3:22 AM
|
I'm just learning new songs! I'm pretty bad with overblowing so I'm trying to play blues standards or any other songs on different tunings. I'm playing 11-12 years I'm think.
----------
Konstantin Kolesnichenko(Ukraine)
my music
|
waltertore
2722 posts
Jul 29, 2014
4:04 AM
|
I never have practiced and probably never will. I find that the most boring thing to do on this earth. My instruments/singing are escapes from the stress of life and a place I can go to that allows me complete freedom from all the pressures, thinking, demands, rules, this life puts on us to maintain our lifestyle. To put my music in that realm would make it not music anymore. I find most players strive for acceptance and most feel the best way to get this is to sound like everyone else. This puts one in an always not good enough space. Kind of like the fastest gun in the west- there will always be someone faster. For me, ones music should always be their favorite music and when given a choice will always go to their music over anyone elses thus they are in their own universe where there is no better or worst but only their music. By letting ones music unfold with this mindset boredom never happens. It is a perfect world! I see this phenomenon in my special needs studens with their art. Most will draw the same simple picture over and over and never get bored. But do they have a style. It is immediately identifiable. This is not their goal but a byproduct of their joy in letting there be no rules. Like them, I never have gotten bored with how I do music thus there is no urge to change things. Let go of the rules, let your uncensored self out, and have no fear of acceptance/rejection and your music will never let you down. What I have gotten bored with is the music industry and I let that pollute my music on and off over the years. Thankfully I have come to peace with that and have no desire to enter it again unless it comes 100% on my terms. One has to keep their pond of music pristine and not let the pollution of the world enter it :-) Walter
----------
walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
my videos
Last Edited by waltertore on Jul 29, 2014 4:23 AM
|
kudzurunner
4821 posts
Jul 29, 2014
5:35 AM
|
I don't practice often enough these days. A few years ago, though, when I was trying to remake myself into a one-man band, I practiced a lot--which for me is only an hour a day, but every single day. That amount of practice, at my stage, is enough to create noticeable improvement over time.
Specifically, I addressed what had long been a weakness of mine: fast sixteenth notes. I got out my metronome, one that I hadn't used much in the past two decades, and started with a few basic licks that Jason had taught me back in 2000. I got them grooved at a reasonable speed (108 or 112) and slowly increased the tempo. I also slowly added new licks.
Mostly I did this so that I would be able to hand the demands of Sunshine of your Love and Crossroads at high tempo, solo. Often I practiced acoustically, with no mic or amp, but then I'd set up my whole percussion rig and play the songs (and sing the songs) amped up.
The results are audible in the Crossroads recording and video (2010). I just couldn't play like that--that fast, that creatively, with no mistakes--before 2009. It all happened in one year.
Now, that's merely one example of how a practice routine designed to attack a longstanding weakness can make an audible difference. There are lots of other things I don't do well. But I might suggest that as one possible approach: pick just one thing that you don't do particularly well. (In my case: handle the changes for "Georgia on my Mind.") Figure out some practice routines that address this lack head-on. And put in a solid 60 minutes a day (one session, or two 30 minute sessions).
Oh, and one more thing: Set a timer when you practice. Set it for at least 15 minutes. Even a practice session of 15 minutes can help. But set a timer and don't stop until it rings. If you've never done this, you'll be amazed at what a difference it makes. In other words, don't just free-form it. Set a timer and put in that much time.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Jul 29, 2014 5:38 AM
|
Komuso
357 posts
Jul 29, 2014
5:40 AM
|
@Walter
"I never have practiced and probably never will."
So you're saying that you have NEVER sat down and worked something out, even once? Because that is practice;-)
But anyway, I think you miss the point.
Focused Practice is an approach to efficient learning of a discipline (any discipline), not a rule set that turns you into a robot (though there are more than a few people who approach it that way, especially in competitions focused training prep)
It's simply about process, using the time you have to learn something new (or reassess something old) and then apply it in context.
----------
Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
|
Steamrollin Stan
783 posts
Jul 29, 2014
6:04 AM
|
@Kingley.......same here mate.
|
waltertore
2723 posts
Jul 29, 2014
6:08 AM
|
Komuso: There are different ways to live life. I am happy to have found the way I do it. I have never rehearsed with my bands and have turned down opportunities that would have paid me more in a week than I made in a year that required I practice/learn certain things. I have no regrets because those things were not exciting to me. I think I gravitated to the old blues guys because they never rehearsed or told me anything about what to play onstage with them. It was a great experience but I had to leave them because the pull to do my own thing took over. I put no negative on people that practice. If it works for you then it is great. I prefer discovery. I still have no idea what a scale is or what notes are where. I figured my music out by letting things unfold. Technically I am probably less versitle than most beginners here but I enjoy what I do so why would I change what works? Walter
----------
walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
my videos
|
Komuso
358 posts
Jul 29, 2014
6:29 AM
|
lol Walter. Practice is about learning, it's not just about "rehearsal" or "learning this song note for note".
You'd be surprised how many of those old blues guys were versed in music theory. Willie Dixon - Check! Howling Wolf - check!
"I prefer discovery."
So do we all. Just because someone uses a map instead of a compass or a sextant or even the way the moss grows on one side of a tree to point the direction west doesn't make the journey any less of a discovery.
----------
Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
|
Joe_L
2490 posts
Jul 29, 2014
6:46 AM
|
Not as much as I should. Most of my time is spent on learning new tunes and getting them to a place where I am comfortable playing them on stage. This includes vocal delivery.
Another thing I am working is learning is listening and playing off what others are doing, whether I am on stage as a leader or as an accompanist.
My goals are to create something that moves people emotionally, sounds good and that people have fun whether they are playing or listening.
----------
The Blues Photo Gallery
|
Kingley
3649 posts
Jul 29, 2014
7:08 AM
|
Thanks guys. All helpful stuff.
|
puri
150 posts
Jul 29, 2014
7:32 AM
|
I'll tell you this that I know for a fact - "practice will get you there" whatever you want to achieve, if you plan well enough how to practice it'll get you there. Sadly, Lots of people think it ends here once you've achieved the level of skill that you wanted and go preaching. It took me years to realised and accept that it's not what music is all about to me. I picked up the violin at 15, way too late, but 6 years later I made my way to the orchestra by practicing up to 10 hours a day(that's the max - not everyday). I've shared stage with loads of world class performers and one thing that I've noticed - my blues mentors(who kept meaning to practice but also kept forgetting to do so) can move me no less than those hard work classical performers.
I guess my point is that maybe you're doing more than ok and if you want to learn something then every once in awhile you'll pick the harp up, work on it and then you're ready to go.
I've experienced that practice will get you "there" but to me "there" is an abstract zone that sometimes doesn't really mean a thing musically.
|
waltertore
2724 posts
Jul 29, 2014
7:58 AM
|
Komuso: I am just stating how I learn(ed) music. I say there is no right or wrong way. I share my way as others share theirs. Am I to not speak because it is different? The best way is the way that works best for you. Walter
----------
walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
my videos
Last Edited by waltertore on Jul 29, 2014 8:12 AM
|
The Iceman
1870 posts
Jul 29, 2014
8:01 AM
|
A search of the archives should turn up a concept that I've used successfully teaching for many years...
All you need do is practice 5 min/day...however, there are stipulations.
A search will reveal all...
----------
The Iceman
|
Sarge
427 posts
Jul 29, 2014
8:52 AM
|
If you know Walter Tore and know his music, then you know that he has nothing to practice, it's all spontaneous.
----------
Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
|
dougharps
697 posts
Jul 29, 2014
8:58 AM
|
WARNING: long and convoluted road ahead!
People have different learning styles and build their skills in different ways. I first played harmonica in 1961 and my involvement with music and harmonica has ebbed and flowed, waxed and waned over the decades.
Some insist that an organized learning/practice approach is the proper way to learn. They insist upon adherence to routines written by others, following a structured path to learning music theory and performance of music. This approach can offer measurable progress through benchmarks on the prescribed path, and improve technical ability to measurable standards. This is very cognitively based, relying on written and oral instruction in a predetermined order. It offers definite rewards.
Some follow an organic learning style, initially finding their way by picking out songs and continuing to build on this. They incorporate information, techniques, and approaches learned from mentors, books, peers, recordings, accidents while playing, and any other musical inspiration they encounter along their path, but they learn by doing, not thinking about it a lot. They try a lot of things in no set order. Often this approach is emotionally driven. They are guided by ear. The player learns while following their own muse. It involves following paths that don't seem to take you toward where you want to go, though in the end those may offer hidden benefits. It may be the long slow way to follow.
The difference is between following the didactic direction of others or finding your own path by feeling. Each offers rewards.
This same theme shows up from time to time on the forum. People learn in different ways, some by listening/reading, and some by doing (at times apparently unproductively). People (usually structured learning advocates) get upset that others don't accept their way.
To me it seems similar to the differences in the Apollonian (of or relating to the rational, ordered, and self-disciplined aspects of human nature) and Dionysian (of or relating to the sensual, spontaneous, and emotional aspects of human nature) approaches to life.
Is blues music/dance more Apollonian or more Dionysian?
"Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on."
-Led Zeppelin
I think it is more complicated than picking one way to the exclusion of the other. I think that learning involves more intermingling of approaches, more overlap, more gray between these poles.
But then I am skeptical of any dualistic framework. I think the "yes or no" duality is a structure of language and Aristotelian logic excluding the middle. Life is more analog than digital.
People learn and find satisfaction in learning differently than each other. People live their lives from different places.
In daily life I tend to think too much (go figure!), so in music I play from the heart...
Breath is fundamental to human life, and we play harmonica music by breathing.
I support prescribed learning as valid when the student seeks the prescription because of feeling stuck and a need to make progress. The organic learning approach can at times incorporate intervals of structured learning.
I do not support people telling others that they need to follow the prescribed path to make progress.
Different strokes for different folks...
Edit: In one approach you practice as directed.
In the other, you play what you feel like playing, when you feel like it (which may involve working on something you want to work on).
----------
Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Jul 29, 2014 9:13 AM
|
Frank
4949 posts
Jul 29, 2014
9:18 AM
|
Since over time you have already acquired a (quantity) of tools to draw from in which to use in your harp playing...
I would suggest really exploring how you are utilizing and understanding the mandatory fundamentals of music particularly of blues music and locate those areas where you can really strengthen things up (quality) wise.
So, if you feel you are "good" at the fundamentals, and you believe that you understand them intellectually as well as intuitively.
See if you can become "great" at the fundamentals...
Dennis Gruenling is a player known for being an "expert" at using fundamentals to their fullest capacity.
So if your *Good* at the fundamentals...
Work on becoming *Great* at them...
Then next step is to become *Expert* at them :)
Point is, don't worry so much about learning something new -
But rather working on "truly owning" the things you already think you know :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jul 29, 2014 9:20 AM
|
Tuckster
1443 posts
Jul 29, 2014
9:54 AM
|
Kingley- I consider you an experienced player from watching your videos on this forum. Perhaps you are in a rut or one of those plateaus we all encounter. I suggest finding a good teacher who can hopefully see things in your playing that you are unable to see yourself. Sometimes someone else's objective educated opinion can help you see things that you don't notice.
|
mr_so&so
846 posts
Jul 29, 2014
9:59 AM
|
Perhaps I shouldn't comment in this thread, because my experience is limited to about six years of practice/learning. I'll say that I still have not run out of things to work on, and I expect that I never will.
Over those years, my practice has changed as I've learned more. Initially it was mostly about learning the skills, gaining familiarity with the instrument, and learning some fundamentals of music theory. Then, as I could play with more confidence, my focus changed more to learning and writing songs, arranging those for harmonica, training my ears (moving away from tabs), etc. I then cycled back and started to work on some of the more advanced technical aspects, such as overbending, learning different positions, and scales, etc., which then enabled more musical directions, improvisations... As my technique gets better, I like to revisit songs and compositions I've learned to see how I can improve them. I'm also working on singing.
Actually, the technical and musical practice has been intermingled more than I've said here. My practice has been to identify an area of intentional focus and to hold on to that for a few weeks or months until I change focus. I do this in an intuitive way, not from a prescribed plan.
I think what Walter is doing, being totally creative in the moment, is where I'd like to end up though, whether playing on my own, or contributing in a group.
----------
Last Edited by mr_so&so on Jul 29, 2014 10:02 AM
|
barbequebob
2660 posts
Jul 29, 2014
10:03 AM
|
Sometimes there will be times you are gonna need to completely get away from playing or practicing for a day or even a week or two just to clean out your mind and come back fresh.
In the beginning, when you want to get good at anything, you're gonna be a driven SOB and be absolutely manic to master as much as possible, but as I found out, later you want to be more focused on overcoming weaknesses rather than just repeating the same stuff all over again, and if you're just doing only what you know and not challenging yourself to learn beyond where you are, I find that all you do is waste time and your own air.
Focused practices of as little as 15 minutes beats totally unfocused, rambling practicing of just doing stuff you already know very well and not trying to go beyond that just wastes time.
Everyone, no matter how good they become, will always get into a rut and sometimes just staying away from the instrument for a while and then make yourself do something different or approach something in a much different way cleans things up and often times it can inspire you to go far beyond what you first set out to do.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
|
Frank
4950 posts
Jul 29, 2014
10:19 AM
|
A good Teacher will usually call you out on where your weak fundamentally and tell you to get those ducks in order.
So a problem players face is- though they may be repeating things ad nauseam, they are not actully getting any better at those things.
The Teacher sez play something that you "supposedly know" really well.
Then the Teacher sez ahhhhhhh - we need to work on this and that and those etc.
A player can think they know something cause they play it a lot, but often that is not reality! :)
I am not talking about Kingley here...these are just general observations :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jul 29, 2014 10:22 AM
|
Diggsblues
1475 posts
Jul 29, 2014
10:23 AM
|
Here is one of my secrets. Chris Michalek did something
similar.
Start with your lowest harmonica and play to your highest
I start with a standard G and play using A,C,D,E and F
I play the same exercises through all those keys.
Here is one: Play the complete first position scale
starting on whole 1. This makes you play bends in
a scale.
Buy some Charlie McCoy books they're gear fun
Emile
----------
|
blingty
37 posts
Jul 29, 2014
10:24 AM
|
Kingley,
I think that's a great question. I think that keeping motivated to practise regularly over a long period of time is one of the things that will lead to mastery of an instrument.
I do see Walter's point about leaving the pressure of comparing ourselves to others and indeed there may always be someone better but I'm also a big advocate of developing the technical skills that will serve the music when you need it.
I should preface what I say here by saying that I'm mostly playing chromatic in a few styles these days and I am not focusing on the diatonic as much as when I started out, but I will focus on it (in a similar way described by Adam) for specific things. The same advice should apply for diatonic anyway. I practise every day that I can, although you know that life gets in the way, sometimes we have commitments or are too tired or whatever...
So to me, there is a never-ending amount to work on, but the "problem" may be that you/I/we are already good enough to play the music you need to play, so we don't feel the need to improve - if that's a problem! Or it may be that the lack of knowing what to work on is a stumbling block - this is an issue with the harmonica vs a more established "taught" instrument.
One thing is that most everything we have to work on has already been recorded. If it's blues you're after, the work of the masters is there, often on youtube. Transcribing from records/youtube/mp3 and getting the technology in place to do that is a big help - I would venture that everyone who can play well in a given style has done record copying at some/various point(s).
So, you could work on new positions on the harmonica or new songs. How about one that was mentioned, Georgia - take it and try to follow the changes. So you may play differently and have to learn scales all over the harmonica. Or take Stormy Monday and follow the changes. I'm not telling you what do do here though - it's more of a suggestion for working on very specific things that will bring results. I think that's important - to get specific and work on something in detail, rather than playing for extended periods.
That's some basic stuff on regular practise sessions. You could sign up for the Howard Levy School if it takes your fancy (he's that player that will always be better than us as described above :-) ). Or learn a new style of music if it takes your fancy. Or get in a new band - nothing like not wanting to make a mess of things on the gig to make us practise!
Iceman's suggestion of 5 minutes' practice is one I first heard on a workshop by Kenny Werner - it's good advice, as is Adam's, to set an amount of time and do it. You can achieve a lot in a short period of time like that.
An the other thing is, it can take a long time to learn how to practise effectively, so don't give yourself a hard time about it either. It took me a long time to establish the routine I have now, and that has flaws... for example, if I get into a technical exercise, that can take up the whole practise session, whereas a lot of contemporary advice says to move onto something so you get to improvise and work on several areas in a a practise session. Mine just gets that initial exercise a bit deeper.
I hope this post doesn't seem too preachy - everyone's path is different. Good luck with it and thanks for your honesty.
Last Edited by blingty on Jul 29, 2014 10:28 AM
|
Komuso
359 posts
Jul 29, 2014
11:13 AM
|
@Walter
Sure, I don't disagree with that. I think we just differ on definition of "practice".
Yours seems quite narrow, focused around traditional concepts of "rehearsal" or "rote learning" but what I have in mind is a much wider concept when I refer to practice. It can be loose, tight, short, long, strict, unfocused...many processes depending on time/situation/goal/need etc. People need to find what works for them, but there is a growing body of knowledge on techniques that can be used to focus learning a little better, and this is not a static field.
I'd even actually call your stream of consciousness/intuitive style of playing a form of practice, if it's not being performed formally.
Music at it's peak should be like that, a form of moving sonic meditation. That's not unique to the blues btw, and is central to many world/roots music styles (especially if not dependent on a music industry for survival but are more social/culture based)
@Frank
That's a good reason to record and develop a critical listening ear. I know people like Jeff Beck make a point of not listening to anything they've played, but it's a great learning (and ego busting) tool for us lesser mortals.
@BBQBob
Great point about having a break. Sometimes you just need a break to advance.
----------
Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Jul 29, 2014 11:16 AM
|
waltertore
2727 posts
Jul 29, 2014
12:00 PM
|
Kosumo: When I pick up an instrument, and I wait for it to call me, stories appear as vivid as a big screen movie. I walk into them and become them. I travel through time and space. It is more addicting than any drug and like any drug addict I have taken this over any other proposition laid before me :-). Playing a gig to people or by myself in my studio are both the same. When I am in my studio all the best audiences that I performed for across the world come in. I have the best sound system (my headphone mix), the best venue to lauch these jorunies from -my studio, and I become the story. This is such a powerful experience I would forgo 10 million dollars to change it. I have died, boogied, overdosed, been in love, gone to war, killed, and been killed, more times than I can remember. What I am doing goes instantly dead if I think. So any kind of thought out thing takes me as far from my music as music is from peanuts. I feel lucky I was able to book myself around the world for 20 years doing Spontobeat and now have it all in a magic bottle so to speak which is my studio. I walk 30 feet outside my house, power up the tube preamps, guitar amp, and I am off on a new adventure. No travel, no setting up/breaking down, no compromise, no thoughts, no worries, and I sleep in my own bed everynight. For me it is the ultimate way to go and thus conciously trying to learn any techniques doesn't move me. I have learned to play the bass, guitar, harp, sing, piano, drums, via this method. Walter
PS: When I first started playing music I made noise but that noise was as inspiring as what I do now . Like an Austistic person I do things my way regardless of what people think and regardless of what some practice could do to "increase" my "talent". I had the head of BMI, Roger Slovine, hound me for several years to let him guide me to hit songs but it meant compromising spontobeat. Also said no to Martin Scorceses and Robbie Robertson to play harp on the color of money movie because it required rehearsal for a couple weeks. It was a no brainer. Like I said, I am Autistic like with my life in the sense that I have to do these things. Would I like to meet others doing music the way I do? Sure I would but to date it hasn't happened except with people our society label Mentally Disabled. I believe this is why I was drawn to this population and it has evolved into my 2nd career as a special education teacher.
PPS: Sarge you are one of those great audience members that are in my studio everytime I get called to play-thanks!
----------
walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year in the Tunnel of Dreams Studio.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
my videos
Last Edited by waltertore on Jul 29, 2014 12:26 PM
|
LittleBubba
301 posts
Jul 29, 2014
12:40 PM
|
I have been performing rock & blues harmonica for a little over 45 years, mostly in the partial vacuum that exists in southeastern Minnesota.
The first thing to determine, if you need a structured approach, is WHAT you want. This is potentially the most important part, and is alot harder than it seems, because many of us are confused about what we want and cannot differentiate between what we THINK we want and what we ACTUALLY want. The University of Minnesota wrestling coach (whose teams have achieved numerious national championships) J.Robinson, has written extensively about this stage. Personally, one of the things that has motivated me to practice with a non-structured approach, is trying to cover tunes I like & want to play. And, I rarely, if ever, try to cover them note-for-note. However, when I hear techniques that I think are at the core of a tune and I can't do them, I try to figure it out any way I can. Usually, one can come up with their own drills in order to get 'em down... repetition is key after the recognition phase. That's one of the reasons I have issues with people who shun covering tunes. WALTER, however, is not one of the guys I have issues with on this matter. Most of us are way more normal than he is & we function better with some kind of structure (which I think is some of what you want.)
Last Edited by LittleBubba on Jul 29, 2014 12:42 PM
|
nacoran
7887 posts
Jul 29, 2014
2:00 PM
|
I don't have decades of experience (although I guess, if you count in those years of school band and choir I do) but I took a very different approach to learning harmonica than I did baritone (and to a lesser extent, singing). When I started learning harp I didn't let anyone know what I was up to until I'd gotten to the point where I could pick out some basic tunes (nothing fancy- Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, London Bridge etc.) I very deliberately didn't set goals for myself.
As a student, I was always vulnerable to my interests. I linked an article the other day, (I think in the thread about traditionalism) about autodidactic learning. When I was little, maybe 3 years old, I could tell you the name of every kind of train car there was. A couple years later it was dinosaurs, then Revolutionary and Civil War history, then Star Wars- pretty much all of it learned because I was interested, not because it was something they were teaching in school (I was lucky enough to have parents who would get me all sorts of books).
In regular classes I struggled though. I would do alright on the tests, but I'd lose my homework, skip reading, stare out the window in class...
Every now and then, something would catch my interest, but for the most part I was pretty checked out until college, and even there, there I had some pretty, uh, diverse grades.
I used to drive my parents crazy. They knew I had the booksmarts to do well in school, but it never translated into actually doing well. It wasn't just being lazy either. I could read a chapter, know my eyes went over the pages, but sometimes my brain would be wandering so much I couldn't even remember what subject it was- but if it was something I wanted to know I'd have it nearly memorized after one go through.
When I started playing harmonica I deliberately tried to approach it from the perspective of an interest instead of something where I tried to plow through and learn as much as I could even if I wasn't having fun. I figured that if I approached it as something fun I'd learn, and as I learned I'd become more interested in the little side details.
For the most part, it's worked. There are times I wish I could make myself sit down and memorize charts or more complex music theory, but I've learned enough about how I learn to realize that that will just make me tune out. That doesn't mean I never buckle down, just that I have to be clever about it. If I look at a book and it says, 'play chord X leading to chord Y leading to chord Z' I'll be bored out of my mind, but if I hear someone playing that riff and it's catchy, bam, I want to learn it.
So, for me at least, the way I organize my more academic practice is I find examples of cool things and try to learn them. If, in the process of learning those things I have to look up some facts, well, I'm interested in those facts then, and I don't mind doing it.
It's interesting, when you watch YouTube videos you can see different teachers approach. Some play an amazing riff and say, okay, now I'm going to break it down for you. Some say, okay, I'm going to teach you this crazy thing, explain it, and then play it. Some mix and match, or throw entirely different facts at you. (As a fan of history and cultural issues, I love some of these- when Adam, for instance, is talking about the Crossroads- maybe I'm not in 'music' mode but it is certainly inspiring me to be.
As for straight up practice- sometimes I wish YouTubers were a little better at posting descriptions under their videos. If they said, 'here is my cover of X, oh, by the way, you'll notice I did something different on the turn around...' that would probably be best for me. Breaking down songs is probably how I learn most, but I have to want to know how to play it.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
First Post- May 8, 2009
|
Kingley
3650 posts
Jul 29, 2014
2:25 PM
|
Thank you for the input everybody. There's a lot of good suggestions and tips there. I will try and utilise some of them.
Diggsblues - That's very interesting Emile. When I can get my act together and practice I always do the full first position scale too, I'll try that with a range of harps in different keys. Thanks for the tip.
Also interesting that you mention Charlie McCoy. The last thing that peaked my interest enough to learn it was some Gospel riffs from "I'll Fly Away" that Todd Parrott was teaching on a video someone stuck up on YouTube. Of course Todd gleaned some of those licks from Charlie too.
|
Littoral
1129 posts
Jul 29, 2014
2:56 PM
|
Kudos for asking the question. Adam emphasized focusing on a weakness and his account of Crossroads is good. You know what you need to work on so owning one of those should be motivation enough -especially if there are tunes that your groups or sessions do and you want to expand. For me, right now I want these: kick off Mojo properly, Brick House horn lines, Crossroads and Hendrix solo parts on Watchtower. Now I have to get copies around to practice with and one way I like is my little hand held digital recorder to get the phrase I'm trying to learn (which usually means hearing it correctly.
|
jbone
1712 posts
Jul 30, 2014
4:14 AM
|
One HUGE challenge and a way to force more detailed learning is, try to teach a couple of kids how to play a harp expressively. Or in my current case, my wife is a novice player. We are both pretty much off the hip players where we can be, although she has spent a lot of time in song and chord books (she's my guitarist also). For the most part my learning began with just finding out what all a harp in a particular key and type could do and what I could make it do. I'm similar to Walter, I wouldn't know how to play a scale if you offered me a million but I seem to do ok anyway. I call myself a notorious improviser.
Over the years though, I have found that I must sometimes totally focus on a particular song or riff and explore it as deeply as I can if I want to even get close to what's being done there.
I'm badly spoiled since Jolene will try to do any song I ask her to. It's not always successful or sometimes it takes trying several times over a few years before we get something that we like and can use. She just got a hot Strat and is currently working to tame that particular tiger, or learn to ride it well at any rate. We both have gotten new amps in the past month or so and this is another challenge we are struggling to deal with.
As far as practice in a traditional sense, my best efforts have seldom produced a real replica of what I hear, but I do get to an acceptable version that I can actually take out and play and often it's recognized.
I do this whole thing because I like it and because others seem to like it as well. At this stage of the game, for me to change direction or style of learning much is not likely.
----------
http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
|
The Iceman
1875 posts
Jul 30, 2014
6:28 AM
|
good point, jbone...
One can learn an awful lot by teaching someone else to play.
----------
The Iceman
|
Diggsblues
1478 posts
Jul 30, 2014
9:49 AM
|
I'm surprised there isn't more nuts and bolts.
Seems more philosophical than anything.
If this was guitar I could hear play the wolfhart violin
studies or get the Tommy Tedesco book or study online
with Jimmy Bruno. God if it was violin or piano there
would a landslide of how to stuff. Is it that there is just a lack of formal studies for harmonica that this happens?
----------
|
LittleBubba
302 posts
Jul 30, 2014
12:57 PM
|
@Diggs, I think part of the issue is the widespread lack of formal training on any instrument among the members of the harmonica community. Not that formal training is necessary to become a good player, but those of us who were trained at a young age on an instrument ( usually band or orchestra instr.) were exposed to mandatory practice times with a set array of exercises. Those of us who have come to the party later in life, without previous musical training, are just not familiar with some of the normal elements of preparation. Also, very few of us have coaches or teachers that would be helpful to us in designing practice disciplines. Also, the vast majority of harp musicians do not read off charts when performing, as do orchestra musicians, so we're not faced with the challenge of, for example, coming to a measure on the sheet that involves triple-tongueing or fast arpeggios or runs. Many of us learn to cheat the music's demands.
|
BronzeWailer
1360 posts
Jul 30, 2014
4:50 PM
|
There is very good advice on this forum, and this thread. I am sure I spend more time reading the advice than I should. Now I think I might go and actually follow it. See you later...
BronzeWailer's YouTube
|
Post a Message
|
