jnorem
415 posts
Jul 20, 2014
6:09 PM
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I did a search and this topic didn't come up. So…how did the bullet microphone become so popular with harmonica players? I mean, how did that come to be?
Who was the first harp player to use one, to use, for an obvious example, a JT30? How did he get it? Did he buy it? Did he see it somewhere and wonder if it would work for harp? Did someone tell him about it, what?
Did he buy one without the stand? Did Astatic offer that option? I don't think so. So how did it come to be that the mic was separated from the stand and made so it could plug into a guitar amp?
Once I begin wondering about something like this, it's like an itch.
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Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Jul 20, 2014 6:22 PM
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kudzurunner
4790 posts
Jul 20, 2014
7:10 PM
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Just a guess: Army surplus. We know that Snooky Pryor played that sort of mic--a PA mic on a Navy ship--when he was demobilized after WWII. I suspect that those mics, after the war, were around in Army surplus stores for really low cost. Just a hunch.
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JustFuya
333 posts
Jul 20, 2014
7:15 PM
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I have wondered the same thing. I'm thinking that maybe the bullet covers more of the harp real estate than the stick for those with different than my piano fingers.
I love the sound out of my Memphis Mini with a too new Shure bullet but I am trying to find a stick with current technology that sounds equal or better. I've gotten over the bullet/harp clunk but I think there's another solution. Bullets are so unwieldy for me. I can fabricate a holder for it on the mic stand but why bother?
The more I read on this site the more confused I get.
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Harpaholic
497 posts
Jul 20, 2014
7:40 PM
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Snooky claims to be the first harp player to play electric harp if I'm not mistaken?
Considering both Shure and Astatic first produced the most popular bullet mics around 1939, it makes sense Snooky and the harp players to follow had access to them.
Bullet mics where litterally everywhere during that time. Schools, prisons, bus and train stations, etc:
Justfuya, get yourself an Akai DM13, and do what I did and remove the six foot cord and install a Switchcraft 2501mp connecter on the end of it.
It's not easy to do, I know a couple people that tried it and failed miserably, one was a "mic builder". I ended up reparing both of them. I've done several and it works great! Killer harp mic!!
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Jul 20, 2014 7:47 PM
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timeistight
1615 posts
Jul 20, 2014
8:15 PM
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"Bullet mics where litterally [sic] everywhere during that time. Schools, prisons, bus and train stations, etc:"
Harpaholic nailed it. Once upon a time, bullet mics were your basic, garden-variety microphone. They were made to provide speech intelligibility in an inexpensive, compact and reasonably tough package. Taxi dispatchers, short-wave radio operators and people who needed to make announcements in prisons, bingo halls, schools or train/bus stations all used them.
So did noisy bars, which is probably how they started being used by harp players. Eventually, the harp players discovered that the bullet mics sounded good cupped against harmonicas.
Last Edited by timeistight on Jul 20, 2014 8:56 PM
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BluesJacketman
178 posts
Jul 20, 2014
8:18 PM
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I heard somewhere that snooky pryor played his harp through a bullet mic into the PA system of a ship he was stationed on.
The reason why most harp players of that time played through JT-30s is because they were really cheap, I think $6 brand new. You could probably get a second hand one at a pawnshop for 3-4 dollars. I'm pretty sure thats why most harp players used them. Also most Astatic bullet mics easily came off the stands they came on, and switchcraft screw-on connectors were on most audio inputs.
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Jehosaphat
774 posts
Jul 20, 2014
8:21 PM
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They were everywhere,they were cheap and they sounded great for amplified harp..but not so much for singing..(though Papa Lightfoot did Ok:)they were PA mikes mostly, for announcing and radio ham work.
I sometimes wonder how many thousands of them must of ended up in rubbish dumps when they were replaced by more modern gear in all those prisons etc.
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jbone
1692 posts
Jul 20, 2014
10:18 PM
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The advent of the transistor changed the whole sound game in the 60's. Low impedance came along and at that point everybody was getting the new solid state technology. Up to that time every p.a. and amp was a tube powered variety and high impedance mics were all there was. My guess is not unique, bullet mics were old looking and hence cheaper.
My current work horse is a high z stick/ball mic, a Shure 585s. I like a good bullet with a cm or a good crystal but the 585 was so inexpensive and has such great reproduction of sound, it can sit on a stand or I can hold it and get something of a cup too.
The current crop of bullets are mostly cheaply built and low impedance as well excepting the Shure 520's. They sound pretty good but it can be a pain to hold a bullet all night if you're gigging.
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http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
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SuperBee
2124 posts
Jul 20, 2014
10:31 PM
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When did stick mics appear on the scene? I'm guessing, but I don't recall seeing stick mics in use in any images from the 40s or early 50s.
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1847
1967 posts
Jul 20, 2014
10:48 PM
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The origin of SM57 may be traced to 1937, when Shure engineer Ben Bauer developed the first single-element directional microphone, the Unidyne, which had a cardioid pickup pattern.[1] In 1959, another Shure engineer, Ernie Seeler, advanced the art of microphone design significantly with the Unidyne III.[1] Seeler torture-tested the Unidyne III during three years of research and development and thereby, produced the SM series of rugged and reliable Shure microphone capsules.[1] The "SM" stands for Studio Microphone;[2] Seeler was an aficionado of classical music and expected the SM57 to be used for orchestras. He "despised" rock music, but ironically, the microphone ended up being widely used during amplified concerts,[1] and has become an industry standard for snare drums, toms, guitar amps and other components of rock groups.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Harpaholic
498 posts
Jul 20, 2014
10:54 PM
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Even though bullet mics were readily available, I'm curious if $6 dollars was considered cheap in 1945? I don't think so.
That would be equivalent to $78.73 today if my calculations are correct.
What did a non union harp player make for a gig in 1945?
In Littles Walter's bio LW claimed MB's where 25 cents when he started playing and complained when they jumped up to $2-2.50 due to the increased popularity he caused.
I'm not sure if we have any members born in 1930's that can answer this or if we have any economists here?
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Jul 20, 2014 11:05 PM
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1847
1968 posts
Jul 20, 2014
10:56 PM
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so 1959 the first sm 57 hit town
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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BluesJacketman
179 posts
Jul 20, 2014
11:10 PM
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I thought the SM57 wasn't introduced until 1965. I think the 545and PE54 were introduced in 59 though.
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didjcripey
777 posts
Jul 21, 2014
12:24 AM
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Don't forget the Shure Commando, as a sort of intermediate between bullet and stick (a CM in a stick)
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Lucky Lester
Last Edited by didjcripey on Jul 21, 2014 12:25 AM
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rbeetsme
1565 posts
Jul 21, 2014
5:27 AM
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I heard Snooky relate the story of playing taps through the PA. I'm pretty sure he was stationed on an Army base. It was sort of a prank but the commander liked it and asked him to play often. I'm guessing Snooky practiced some and liked the sound. According to Snooky, he bought an map and moved to Chicago in 1940, playing amped on the street. He claimed to be the first harp player to record amped harp.
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Goldbrick
544 posts
Jul 21, 2014
6:50 AM
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'the Shure SM57 is a low-impedance, unidirectional, dynamic microphone made by Shure Incorporated and commonly used in live sound reinforcement and studio recording. It is one of the best-selling microphones in the world. It is used extensively in amplified music and has been used by every U.S. president since its introduction in 1965.[1] In 2004, honoring its four decades of "solid, dependable performance", it was inducted into the first-ever TEC Awards TECnology Hall of Fame.'
Wonder if any of the presidents blew harp thru them- but probably just blew lots of hot air
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Barley Nectar
441 posts
Jul 21, 2014
7:28 AM
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I'll bet Clinton played his sax thru one. I always wanted to invite Bill to a jam...BN
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HawkeyeKane
2568 posts
Jul 21, 2014
7:37 AM
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"Justfuya, get yourself an Akai DM13, and do what I did and remove the six foot cord and install a Switchcraft 2501mp connecter on the end of it.
It's not easy to do, I know a couple people that tried it and failed miserably, one was a "mic builder". I ended up reparing both of them. I've done several and it works great! Killer harp mic!!"
I couldn't agree more. I love my DM13. I also thought about the Switchcraft connector. However, I sent mine in to Technobird to get modded. He installed a detented volume pot and a 1/4" jack in the butt end. I had been dubious about that connection because I didn't want my cable getting yanked out by accident while on stage with it. But lo and behold, the one Dave used is very snug, and the plug doesn't come out without some serious pull on it. I'm very happy with the work he did.
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Hawkeye Kane - Hipbone Sam
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JustFuya
336 posts
Jul 21, 2014
11:04 AM
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Thank you for the advice. I just bought a pair of Akai DM13s on eBay for half of what I paid for the bullet. I love simple and hope it's just that.
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tmf714
2656 posts
Jul 21, 2014
11:25 AM
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"I'll bet Clinton played his sax thru one. I always wanted to invite Bill to a jam...BN "
Don't know-but my friend John was the vice president of a high end Euro car dealership-we formed a band with John on bass and his brother Big Bill on guitar.
When the Clintons moved to Chappaqua,John decided he was going to pay Bill a visit. He made it within a hundred yards of the house,when he was stopped by the Secret Service and asked for his drivers license and another form of ID-he gave them his SS card. When asked what he was doing there,John stated that the band was playing a gig down the road ,and he wanted Bill to come jam. They laughed and sent him away.
The Secret Service sent him away without his SS card.
About one week later , I get called into Johns office-he shows me an autographed picture of Bill and Hilary, accompanied by a letter which read" John, thank you so much for inviting me to your event. Unfortunatley,I will not be able to attend due to my busy schedule . If you can give me a few weeks advance notice,I would be more than happy to come play with your band,
Singed William Jefferson Clinton."
They also sent his SS back with the pic and letter. He never did jam with us-but its a cool story just the same.
Last Edited by tmf714 on Jul 21, 2014 11:29 AM
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HawkeyeKane
2573 posts
Jul 21, 2014
11:53 AM
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You won't be disappointed JustFuya. If you want the mods I had done, send them in to Technobird. He'll getcha taken care of.
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Hawkeye Kane - Hipbone Sam
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on Jul 21, 2014 11:54 AM
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jnorem
416 posts
Jul 21, 2014
3:09 PM
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I like the idea that it was Snooky Pryor who introduced the bullet mic to the Chicago blues scene. He'd definitely used one in the Army, and when he was playing on Maxwell Street he definitely used a mic running into an amplifier. I'm sure he would have wanted the same mic he used in the Army, a bullet-type PA mic.
It logically follows that other harp players would follow his lead when getting amplified-harp equipment for themselves. So I'm going to give it to Snooky Prior, the man who introduced the bullet mic to the Chicago harmonica community. And I guess the U.S. Army deserves some recognition as well.
Edit: I decided to check whether the Army did in fact use bullet mics, but I came up empty. The closest I could find was this:
It's possible that this was the kind of mic Snooky Pryor played through, and when he was out of the Army the closest to it he could find was a dispatch mic like the JT30.
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Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Jul 21, 2014 3:24 PM
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Harpaholic
500 posts
Jul 21, 2014
4:16 PM
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The military did in fact use Shure mics including Bullets, also EV, Turner, and Astatic mics before, during and after WWII.
I know this having seen dozens of old military photos over the years showing the mics mentioned. Look at all of the old mics that were made using standard military colors. That shows that mic manufacturers had military contracts.
Pics can be found on the net.
I don't suspect Snooky used old carbon field radio mics like that 109 to blow harp through when there where better mics available at the time, but its certainly possible he tried one.
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Jul 21, 2014 4:44 PM
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jnorem
417 posts
Jul 21, 2014
4:22 PM
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@Harpaholic: Great, that ties it all up as far as I'm concerned. Snooky used a bullet mic in the Army, and when he got out he wanted one just like it, that is unless he kept one of the Army ones.
Thanks, Harpaholic. (What a great forum).
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Call me J
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tmf714
2659 posts
Jul 21, 2014
4:40 PM
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The first recorded amped harp was Little Wslter on Muddy's "Country Boy" (Chess 1452), recorded on July 11, 1951.
Pryor may have been doing it in the street,but none of his recordings from the 40s-and early 50's contain amped harp.
Last Edited by tmf714 on Jul 21, 2014 4:43 PM
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tmf714
2660 posts
Jul 21, 2014
4:44 PM
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jnorem
418 posts
Jul 21, 2014
4:46 PM
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@tmf714: That's Little Walter, isn't it? I'm theorizing that Snooky Pryor was the first to use the mic/amp approach, and that Little Walter followed his lead.
Edit: And you are correct about Pryor's first recordings. I wonder why that was.
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Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Jul 21, 2014 4:48 PM
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Harpaholic
501 posts
Jul 21, 2014
4:51 PM
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1951! That gave LW some great mic options, Black CR, 707A with a real Shure Crystal, primo JT30's and many other mics we only dream about.
I sure would like to know what he preferred at that time?
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Jul 21, 2014 4:53 PM
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Harpaholic
502 posts
Jul 21, 2014
5:05 PM
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I saw an interview with Snooky claiming he was the first but stated other harp players like LW tried to take the credit for it.
Not saying Snooky was lying.
But without any pics or recordings we can say with certainty that LW was the first to blow amped harp.
Is there any hard evidence of Snooky being the first? I'm guessing it would have to be pics sometime in the late 30's?
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Jul 21, 2014 7:12 PM
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jnorem
419 posts
Jul 21, 2014
5:19 PM
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I'm only going by what it says in his Wikopedia entry:
"While serving in the U.S. Army he would blow bugle calls through the powerful PA system which led him to experiment with playing the harmonica that way. Upon discharge from the Army in 1945, he obtained his own amplifier and began playing harmonica at the outdoor Maxwell Street market, becoming a regular on the Chicago blues scene."
Also, in this very thread rbeetsme wrote, "I heard Snooky relate the story of playing taps through the PA. I'm pretty sure he was stationed on an Army base. It was sort of a prank but the commander liked it and asked him to play often. I'm guessing Snooky practiced some and liked the sound. According to Snooky, he bought an map and moved to Chicago in 1940, playing amped on the street. He claimed to be the first harp player to record amped harp."
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Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Jul 21, 2014 6:07 PM
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blueswannabe
482 posts
Jul 21, 2014
7:18 PM
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At my last two gigs I used an SM57 which was ultimized by greg but with no bulletizer. Very comfortable to get a tight cup (and without the bulletizer). Light, and awesome tone and with a volume control.
I believe bullet mics were used more because they were more prevalent and they sounded great, so people stuck with them. When great sounding stick mics came along like the SM545 and SM57 and RE10, and sounded just as great, people made the switch.
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jnorem
421 posts
Jul 21, 2014
7:24 PM
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Stick mics were around back then. I've seen more photos of Little Walter playing a stick mic than of him playing a bullet.
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Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Jul 21, 2014 7:24 PM
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Harpaholic
503 posts
Jul 21, 2014
7:29 PM
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He actually moved to Chcago in 1945, whch makes sense it was after WWII. There's a lot of conflicting info on Snooky regarding amped harp?
If he was the first to discover amped harp why did he not record using that method until the 50's according to Wiki? Doesn't make sense?
If he did record before LW using a cupped mic, what did he record? I haven't been able to find anything?
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rbeetsme
1566 posts
Jul 21, 2014
7:44 PM
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I think Snooky recorded Telephone Blues in 1948, but it sounds like he's playing into a vocal mic.
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walterharp
1469 posts
Jul 21, 2014
7:59 PM
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I found a 1954 catalog and it had a shure green bullet, 520 for $17.50, a 707a for $15.50, a crystal element for $7.75 and a cr for $10
in today's dollars that would be $151, $134, $67 and $87
so prices have gone up, but not by that much! Bullets were not $6 new at that point, but they were among the cheapest mics. The higher end unidynes were running about $100 ($880 today)
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jbone
1695 posts
Jul 21, 2014
9:16 PM
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I got my hands on a NOS Electrovoice M43U a few years back and had Greg H do some stuff to it. Change it to high z, add a volume pot inside the case, and put a screw on connector to 1/4" adapter on it. Great mic, smaller than a bullet but with a lot of punch just the same.
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http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
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Harpaholic
504 posts
Jul 22, 2014
12:01 AM
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Jbone, was that mic originally military green?
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SuperBee
2125 posts
Jul 22, 2014
3:20 AM
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Hang on...higher end unidynes...1954? So these were stick-type mics available in 1954? But pricey...
On another note...I figure I know what you all mean, but I don't think 'amplified' is really the best word to describe what you mean...which I figure is the practice of playing a harmonica into a hand held mic in such a way as to create a resonance effect, rather than playing into a mic where the harp is allowed to resonate in free air.
If there is no such think as a stick mic, and you are playing with a portable rig...no mic stand...seems like a small shell mic is the natural option. Not a big step from there to discovering it sounds different depending how you hold it...to me, 1948 seems pretty late for someone to do this for the first time.
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5F6H
1810 posts
Jul 22, 2014
3:41 AM
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Snooky Pryor with Leroy Foster 1949..
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www.myspace.com/markburness
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jbone
1698 posts
Jul 22, 2014
4:34 AM
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harpaholic, it's still green!
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http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
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5F6H
1811 posts
Jul 22, 2014
5:45 AM
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Bullet mics were just "mics" in the 50's, only bullet shaped because diaphragms/elements were typically larger (whether crystal, ceramic, CR, CM, dynamic) than from the late 50's & 60's.
http://www.preservationsound.com/?p=2475
Stick mics were available from the mid 50's, but bullets probably better value for money.
FWIW there appear to be as many photos of Butterfield with a bullet as there are of Little Walter.
Muddy was quoted as saying that John Lee Williamson (SBW1) was the first guy he saw cup a mic to a harp, doing this from around 1944. Anecdotes cite Williamson as carrying his own amp & he is certainly photographed with an EV bullet...whether he cupped up through necessity, or to achieve a specific tonal effect is another matter. For club gigs, it wasn't uncommon for folk to sing & play through the same mic, amps & smaller more utilitarian PA systems were basically very similar to musical instrument amps prior to amp development really kicking off in the mid/late 50's.
First to do it, chronologically, or not, Little Walter was the most influential player in this respect.
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www.myspace.com/markburness
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tmf714
2661 posts
Jul 22, 2014
5:47 AM
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Eddie Burns and John Lee Hooker -1948
Last Edited by tmf714 on Jul 22, 2014 5:49 AM
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5F6H
1812 posts
Jul 22, 2014
5:56 AM
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Not sure that is amplified per se, hard to say, could be played into a cup/horn/pipe/device to also get the echo effect, if it's not the echo itself contributing?
Not impossible that it was through an amp but seems less clear cut than "Take a little walk.."?
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www.myspace.com/markburness
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Harpaholic
505 posts
Jul 22, 2014
11:11 AM
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Just wanted to add these for reference.
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rogonzab
571 posts
Jul 22, 2014
11:24 AM
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Harpaholic, I really want one of those.
I have an akai dm13, but the element is to tight in there, and I cant remove it to mod it.
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Harpaholic
508 posts
Jul 22, 2014
11:30 AM
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I've had a couple like that, but I was able to remove them by using an Exacto knife to loosen the rubber gasket, just be gentle!
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1847
1977 posts
Jul 22, 2014
11:33 AM
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from what i understand the sm 57
was the first stick mic.
it first appeared in the 1960 shure catalog
prior to that you had a shure 55
the big elvis style mic.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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5F6H
1813 posts
Jul 22, 2014
11:51 AM
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@1847 Check the link in my earlier post, the Shure 525 was around in the early/mid 50's, 530 & 535. The SM57 arrived in 1965, a few years after the 545 ('61 at a guess?). EDIT - 545 appeared in the 1960 catalogue.
Altec, EV also had stick type mic's.
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www.myspace.com/markburness
Last Edited by 5F6H on Jul 22, 2014 11:56 AM
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Harpaholic
509 posts
Jul 22, 2014
12:24 PM
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I'm not trying to argue, but the SM57 was one of the last series of stick mics released by Shure somewhere around 1980?
The 545 series was released in 1960, and many came after that but long before the 57.
I've looked at a lot of Shure catalogs, in the 1979 catalog their still advertising the Unidyne models, Spher O Dyne, 585 series, Commando, etc; and in the 1981 catalog, the SM57.
If it shows up earlier, I would like to see it.
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5F6H
1814 posts
Jul 22, 2014
12:39 PM
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Gibberish linking attempt deleted.
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www.myspace.com/markburness
Last Edited by 5F6H on Jul 22, 2014 12:54 PM
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