Rarko
117 posts
Jun 25, 2014
2:03 PM
|
A lot of guys say that learning songs note by note is very important and usefull. I wanted to do it couple of times but I am just not very patient to learn whole song.
What's your experience?
|
Nibiria
20 posts
Jun 25, 2014
3:48 PM
|
Well I'm a pretty novice harp player myself, so you might want to take this with a grain of salt. The first thing I do when I learn a song is look up the tab, and not to learn the notes or anything: I do it to check the key of the harp used. Now, it's not always accurate and some may consider it cheating, but I find that it removes the most difficult part of learning a song, which is finding the key of the harp (I skipped this step and originally thought Harvest Moon by Neil Young used a C harp -- though it kind of works still!). Then the rest is just listen and repeat. This is if your goal is just to learn a song but you want to be able to learn a bit by ear. The major problem I run into with this is I can never guess what key a song is in -- so be wary of that if you try it this way.
Beyond that, it's honestly just perseverance. The more you practice the easier it is, and the first part is the absolute hardest, on any instrument: bass, guitar, trumpet, piano, and especially harp. But once you get it down you can figure out songs within minutes, and it's a great feeling (I've only done it once or twice, honestly).
|
The Iceman
1774 posts
Jun 25, 2014
4:50 PM
|
Rarko - learn patience.
----------
The Iceman
|
Frank
4652 posts
Jun 25, 2014
4:53 PM
|
What ever artist you are studying or song - what you will ultimately want to accomplish is figure out how they brought those notes and riffs to life.
So, the notes are cool...
Though, being able to play them with the power, persuasion and purposeful feeling, the way they are intended to played is what you are truly after.
This knowledge, in turn- can be transferred and used in your own unique improvisations and all other interactions you have with music and musicians :)
(Impatience will get you NO_WHERE very, very, fast)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 25, 2014 4:56 PM
|
Harp Study
41 posts
Jun 25, 2014
7:57 PM
|
My experience has been that little has improved my playing as much as learning songs note for note by ear. It accomplishes several things at once: ear training and listening skills are sharpened, technique is often pushed and unfamiliar patterns become familiar.
However, it is tedious and takes a fair amount of time. I often get impatient or just tired of working on the same song, so I often don’t finish the entire song, but rather learn (2) or (3) choruses. While I know it would be better to learn the entire song I don’t do it very often. For me playing is just for fun and when it isn’t fun anymore I move on. However, I often eventually come back to a song and pick up where I left off; so I’ve learned entire songs; just not usually all at once.
One thing I’ve noticed is that as yours ears get better you can go back to a song you thought you had down and you notice that you missed a lot of important nuances. All part of the journey I guess.
|
jnorem
329 posts
Jun 25, 2014
8:08 PM
|
Let's define our terms. What does it mean for a harmonica player to learn a song note-for-note?
----------
Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Jun 25, 2014 8:08 PM
|
PropMan
13 posts
Jun 25, 2014
8:41 PM
|
When the boss adds a new tune the first thing I do is ask "what version are you going for?" Last week he said to work on the J Geils version of "Serves you right to suffer" so I spent about 3 hours on Sunday listening to and learning everything Magic Dick plays on that tune. It's where I like to start before going off and doing something I feel like playing. For me it's a foundation I really need as I'm not really an advanced player who can jump right in cold and play anything remotely interesting. I've learned so much just trying to copy great playing on records over the years. And now with an iPad and slow downer it's really so much easier than when all we had were LPs or CDs.
I'm a biker bar jam hack and anything good I play is stolen. But what the hell, Olivier didn't write Hamlet.
Last Edited by PropMan on Jun 25, 2014 8:44 PM
|
tookatooka
3672 posts
Jun 26, 2014
2:44 AM
|
Note for note would be like copying a Rembrandt, brushstroke by brushstroke. It will help you to learn to see (hear) and learn to copy but it wouldn't make you as original as Rembrandt. He was doing his own thing and ploughing his own furrow, why can't you do that too and then people may want to copy you?
Last Edited by tookatooka on Jun 26, 2014 2:46 AM
|
A440
165 posts
Jun 26, 2014
3:11 AM
|
I agree with @tookatooka - don't always try to copy note for note.
With harp there is a lot of room for improvisation. I don't think I ever play a song the same way twice.
Rather than learning notes, I tend to learn riffs. When approaching a new song, be it a cover or an original, I will experiment to find the right riffs that fit with the groove of the song. Also, I try to find the place of the harp in the song - is harp a centerpiece, is it adding colour to the edges, or is it driving a rhythm? Each requires a different approach. Also, it can mean a different harp model, different mic, or different effects or amp settings, for a specific song. Do I cup or play open air? Do I use a lot of hand effects? Do I play chords or octave splits?
@Nibiria Regarding key: Yes you need to know the key of the song. Playing along with recordings, the tabs help with that. But playing with a band, just ask the band leader. I've played the same cover in multiple keys... so don't assume its the same key as in the original recording. Of course, once you know the key, you need to decide which position to play: 2nd for a blues sound with a lot of bends, or 1st for a more pop/rock sound? Or maybe use both harps and switch during parts of the song? Would a Low F or High G work better? Or do I use a country tuned harp to work best with a song? Again, there is room to be creative here.
Last Edited by A440 on Jun 26, 2014 3:26 AM
|
Frank
4657 posts
Jun 26, 2014
3:25 AM
|
It boils down to intent...
Coping anything for the sake of mindlessly repeating something - is a dead end when it comes to enhancing and fortifying ones own artistic powers.
Coping something for the sake of strongly desiring to learn its secrets and understand why it is so amazing- will birth inspiration directly into your spirit to be used as your own personal voice :)
----------
The Centipide Saloon
Tip Your Waiter Please
|
A440
166 posts
Jun 26, 2014
3:33 AM
|
Indeed, copying is also very valuable. Especially learning the classic riffs of the great masters, Little and Big Walter, Sonny Boy, etc.
Last Edited by A440 on Jun 26, 2014 11:28 AM
|
jbone
1668 posts
Jun 26, 2014
4:14 AM
|
I have never been a note for note student. More a riff or hook learner with the details added as I go. And very much I add my own twist, however inadequate it may be at first. With a bit of practice I improve it to where it's recognizable but also it's mine as well.
I am 98% improvisation and that leaves 2% sweat.
I tried to teach a couple of kids to play harp a while back and realized how much I know but how little I know how to explain. So much becomes second nature over time I did not see how many moves there were involved in a simple bend or trill. Try teaching a language with no real technical knowledge and you get the idea. But teaching has not been my goal while sounding good has, and I have accomplished this most times out.
----------
http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
|
Rubes
864 posts
Jun 26, 2014
4:32 AM
|
Ditto all of the above extremely excellent advice from the family....I like to dig out the root note, and get a feel for the chord progression. Research the guitar chords for the song along with the lyrics....then work on the harp bit...... ;~}
----------
Old Man Rubes at Reverbnation
Dads in Space at Reverbnation
Benny and Rubes at Reverbnation
Last Edited by Rubes on Jun 26, 2014 4:33 AM
|
JInx
807 posts
Jun 26, 2014
4:42 AM
|
When in doubt , go west
----------
|
SuperBee
2090 posts
Jun 26, 2014
7:15 AM
|
I like to learn em note for note as well as I can. I want to do a bit more of that yet. I always find my playing improves, I get new understanding of the song that I've loved. And I get licks etc. and not just the harp...the concentration involved leads me to notice the other parts of the song.
Eventually I get my own version, even my own song...
It's for sure not the only way, but it works for me.
Actually helped my problems with concentration and diligence too.
|
