BronzeWailer
1284 posts
May 25, 2014
3:43 PM
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This guy has some excellent how-to-sing vids.
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JustFuya
195 posts
May 25, 2014
8:29 PM
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Excellent post, however OT. I am a big time fan of some excellent harp players with vocals that don't quite hit the same sweet spot. Honing other skills is paramount to success.
I was discouraged early on while auditioning for a rock band. I have a low voice and as he hit higher targets on the piano I said no, ain't gonna happen. I was strongly encouraged and went ever upward. My voice broke as expected. It hurt everyone within range except me. I died. So I was relegated to instrumentals. Fine. Made the cut but had to shut up.
Everyone has a voice. Some scream and some soothe. I'm still working off the initial snub so I'm strictly backup unless it's a Johnny Cash song or St. Patrick's Day. I work on my falsetto in the shower and look forward to sharing it.
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BronzeWailer
1287 posts
May 27, 2014
3:14 PM
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I think it is not strictly OT, because I think we harp players should all sing a bit at least. Calling myself a singer got me a spot at a blues jam the other week when I arrived late. The practice lessons are applicable to harp I believe, in a sense. I also have a lower range singing voice, and prefer to sing in lower keys. I have a singing teacher, who is helping me extend my range upwards, and her tips, tricks and exercises are working. I never realized how complex the singing process is until I started taking lessons. Look forward to hearing your falsetto and/or your Johnny Cash impression, JustFuya!
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STME58
840 posts
May 27, 2014
4:04 PM
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I have noticed that I can play harp for hours without noticeable fatigue. When I do start to feel it it is in the muscles near the back of the throat. When I practice trombone, my chops are shot in an hour, less if I do high register work. I think the ideas expressed in the video are excellent. They are applicable to other instruments with some tailoring. There is a muscular part to playing any instrument and recovery is an important part of training.
@Bronzewailer, have you found that the vocal tract formations used to get clear tones in singing also help get a clear tone out of the harp?
Last Edited by STME58 on May 27, 2014 4:06 PM
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BronzeWailer
1288 posts
May 27, 2014
7:25 PM
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@STME58 Interesting observations/question. I can play and sing for quite and don't feel too bad, although my throat does get tired after three straight hours of busking.
I don't have objective evidence but I think some of the things from singing (opening the throat wide and keeping it open and lifting the soft palate) may be helping (in terms of tone).
That's not answering your question though. I guess the main thing that helps produce clear ringing tones in the voice for me is knowing where the resonance should lie (by humming the note and feeling where it vibrates on the mask of the face) then aiming for the same area when singing. I will try to do the same for the harp.
Cheers
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Kyzer Sosa
1085 posts
May 28, 2014
1:32 AM
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as for singing, you either have it or you don't. just like chops on the harp. i know people who've played for thirty years who couldn't do what I learned how to do six months in to it.
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"Music in the soul can be heard by the universe." - Lao Tzu
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barbequebob
2571 posts
May 28, 2014
10:08 AM
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Every harp player should try to sing, but I further recommend every harp player go to a reputable vocal coach not only to learn how to sing, but also for breathing and relaxation exercises which will greatly improve your playing alone and show you how to get the most with the LEAST amount of breath force and effort necessary.
Now everyone these days likes to do the cheapo route and go with a YT video, but personally, a good coach will do more because there is an interactive feature between you and the coach you'll never get from a YT video and a coach can catch all kinds of mistakes, like the way you pronounce vowels, the way you use your mouth as you vocal embouchure, and that's just for starters.
Most people play and often times sing while they tend to be very uptight, which shrinks the size of their air passages considerably and have never learned to use their diaphragm at all and a vocal coach will help you learn that.
Many players who play too hard on their harp often play their hardest (especially in the note bending process) on 1-6 draw and 7-10 blow, but too often their breath is noticeably FAR weaker on 1-6 blow and 7-10 draw and just going for breathing an relaxation exercises will enable you to have a much more steady, even approach going from blow to draw and vice versa and that alone will make you a better player.
With vocal lessons, which has heavy emphasis of having a very wide open throat will make your harp tone far better and fatter and things like master volume and distortion pedals will become largely unnecessary because your acoustic tone will be fatter and you will project far better, yet use a lot less breath force in your playing (plus you won't blow out harps so damned fast), and your playing will become considerably more resonant because the open throat helps you put far more emphasis on the even numbered harmonic overtones which sounds bigger, warmer, and more pleasant and a more closed up throat along with too much breath force makes your tone sound thin, tinny and extremely harsh and you won't project particularly well.
I went to a vocal coach many years ago and have never regretted that for a single time and noticed the tone got bigger and projected better yet using 75% lesss breath force in the process.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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mr_so&so
828 posts
May 28, 2014
10:47 AM
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BronzeWailer, thanks for this. Kyser, you are so wrong. Most people don't think they can sing or don't try because some idiot told them they can't sing. You didn't give up on the harp when you first tried it, even though you couldn't play at the time. You have to learn to sing, but most people have all the necessary equipment to do so.
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SuperBee
2034 posts
May 28, 2014
3:12 PM
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I for sure have noticed that as my singing improves, so does my harp playing. I'm not sure which is driving the other, but they seem linked.
I haven't had vocal coaching but I have had live harp coaching the last couple years, which has definitely picked up some of the things bob mentions.
Good stuff in the video above about how much practice for voice.
On another but related topic, of practice generally...my daughter takes piano lessons but practice was not happening. I started nudging her at dinner time. And she has been going off and doing 15-20 minutes pretty regularly the last couple weeks. The improvement in just a short time is very noticeable. If I'd badgered her to do an hour, she wouldn't do it, or she would but she'd resent it and eventually drop it.
I notice the same with the harp, a lot can be achieved with small regular practices. Whereas over-ambitious plans often come to nought.
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STME58
843 posts
May 28, 2014
3:21 PM
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My son's symphony conductor asks the kids to do 15 minutes a day for the reasons @SuperBee describes. Short regular practice is much more effective than sporadic long sessions.
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Kyzer Sosa
1086 posts
May 29, 2014
1:13 PM
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I have been singing since I could speak. It was and is my first passion. No amount of vocal lessons will ever trump natural ability to sing. Sorry to disappoint.
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"Music in the soul can be heard by the universe." - Lao Tzu
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SuperBee
2041 posts
May 29, 2014
2:29 PM
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So you'd be pretty good then KS?
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mr_so&so
831 posts
May 29, 2014
2:31 PM
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@Kyzer, fine, some people inherit better instruments for singing than other people do. That does not mean that singing is a can or can't proposition. Almost everyone can learn to sing.
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Rubes
855 posts
May 29, 2014
5:00 PM
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Good post Eric... :~}
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BronzeWailer
1290 posts
May 29, 2014
8:02 PM
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Cheers guys. My first guitar partner didn't want me singing. My second insisted that I do almost all of the singing and my current one and I split it 50:50. Third parties tell me my singing has gotten better since I started lessons -- 16 months ago now. Wish I'd started earlier.
Barbeque Bob's advice is excellent. This week my teacher was feeling my ribcage to see what I was doing while I was singing. You don't get that off the internet yet.
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KingoBad
1480 posts
May 29, 2014
8:19 PM
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Just remember, if your singing teacher touches you somewhere your bathing suit covers - go tell an adult you trust...
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Danny
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BronzeWailer
1291 posts
May 29, 2014
8:29 PM
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I told my wife, Danny, and she's mighty annoyed. Did I mention that my teacher is a pretty young lady?
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Kyzer Sosa
1087 posts
Jun 05, 2014
1:17 AM
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yes
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"Music in the soul can be heard by the universe." - Lao Tzu
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