dan.rfd
11 posts
May 21, 2014
3:13 AM
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Hello folks, I've been playing on and off for a few years. After recently hearing some sweet sounding tracks such as Brandon O Bailey's low version of Nine Below Zero I am tempted to get myself my first low tuned harp.
I'm not sure what key to go for in terms of playability and usefulness - at what point does the 2 bend become hard to get? Also what models are best? I spotted the Hohner thunderbird but they are very expensive considering I'm just buying it as an experiment really..
Cheers
Dan
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jbone
1624 posts
May 21, 2014
3:38 AM
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I have a low D Big River which plays very well and is quite versatile. I have yet to play it in 1st position but have no doubt it will sound good. I use it in 2nd and 3rd positions and it's a really cool sound.
I also have a low F Suzuki Manji which is great for some 3rd position in G.
Note that these lower harps do better with amplification than without.
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cliffy
86 posts
May 21, 2014
4:52 AM
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Jbone, I actually disagree with your statement about low-key harps doing better with amplification than without. But in a friendly, respectful way :)
Dan, one of the things that makes a low-key harmonica sound so special is the beautiful ringing quality of the reeds when played acoustically. All of my low-keyed harps are Big River Harps, which I don't think they make any more.
You'll find that, once you get playing them a bit, it takes very little effort to get the reeds to keep ringing. Chords have a beautiful sustain... Play a I chord and drop your jaw up and down -- the chord will sound great and continue as long as you wish it to, and it will sound very natural, not forced.
I find that it takes a lot of wind to play a low D or low Eb harp well using a mic and amp. It's easy for it to sound muffled or less punchy than higher-pitched harmonicas.
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Mahcks
1 post
May 21, 2014
6:19 AM
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I got a double low F Thunderbird a couple weeks ago. I've put a bit of work into it (sanding, Gapping, valving) to save as much air as possible. It took a while but I was able to get a really good response out of it. It can get pretty loud, too, with the right resonance. As for bending (before I valved it); I could get the 2 draw down a semitone, but it sounded kinda gross.
One of the things I love about it is how the reeds keep ringing on the low end. You can feel it. That helps out a little with responsiveness, too.
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Rustydusty
7 posts
May 21, 2014
6:56 AM
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If you have an extra Lee Oskar, you can order a set of "low D" reed plates for about $20. ( That's what I did.) plays well and has awesome "chugging" capabilities!
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didjcripey
744 posts
May 21, 2014
1:05 PM
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Best low tuned harp I've tried is a low d Seydel blues session.
Well priced too, a quality instrument.
I find low harps easy to play; very little breath required; less than usual harps if you do it right.
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Lucky Lester
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nacoran
7753 posts
May 21, 2014
3:55 PM
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My Seydel LLF is a little tough to bend the bottom notes on, particularly if I'm out of practice on lower harps, but a breeze for blow bends. It sometimes rattles the cover on the 1 hole, but that's literally the lowest reed they sell on a production harp, so anything above that should be okay. I also have a low D (harmonic minor) that I love. In a band setting you may need to turn up a bit more to cut through, but the they produce a great sound. What key you want may depend on your choice in music. A low D major would be great for Irish jigs; for bluesy stuff, you have all the usually key choices. For lower keys, it may be more likely that you'll be playing chugging chords, so you might want a temperament more towards Just or Compromise instead of Equal, even if you are one of us guys who lean a bit towards ET on our higher harps.
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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Frank
4323 posts
May 21, 2014
4:17 PM
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If you have any expensive bad habits, other then playin harp - stop them immediately and save the money for a Hohner Thunderbird...Why be a loner, buddy up with a Hohner :)
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SuperBee
2009 posts
May 21, 2014
8:51 PM
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LLF a little tough eh?
Replace LLF with LEb and the story is true for me. I can't imagine playing an LLF. Took me a while to deal with LF. LF is a tbird, I have an LF session, I find Draw 1 kinda tough to bend all the way to F# on that, but the tbird is ok. Not quite sure but it's always the 1 hole I struggle with. Only hole I don't TB, so maybe that's it.
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nacoran
7754 posts
May 21, 2014
9:23 PM
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Dan, another way to approach it is to listen to some people playing some low harps and find the range you like. Seydel used to have some nice sound samples up of some of their low harps, but I can't find the link. They do have a piano keyboard (why not a harp, who knows) that you can hit that will play a harp note for you to give you an idea of the sound:
http://www.seydel1847.de/epages/Seydel1847.sf/sec8e62349b00/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Seydel/Categories/Made_in_Germany/LowHarmonicas
Frank, have you recently become an ad copyman for Hohner? :)
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Nate
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Gipsy
66 posts
May 21, 2014
11:22 PM
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I've got a low C Seydel Silver set up by Ben Bouman. It plays beautifully. All draw bends are accessible ( with a little extra effort ). I've also got a low A set up by Ben. This is awesome for laying down bass lines. It obviously needs amplification to help it be heard. Finally I've got a LLF Seydel. Awesome almost organ like reverberation on the chords, but it does take some blowing.
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Frank
4328 posts
May 22, 2014
4:15 AM
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No way, what would make you think that :) I think that saying is hilarious and it rhymes rather nicely (hohner/loner)...I could careless what people choose to play, really :)
But if you want to be like Mick and get all the chicks you'll first need to switch to Hohner :)
Last Edited by Frank on May 22, 2014 4:25 AM
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BronzeWailer
1277 posts
May 22, 2014
4:21 AM
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I have a low F Special 20 (I don't think they make them anymore)which is nice. Seydel 1846s in Low C and Low D, Thunderbird in Low E and recently splashed out on a Noble in low F. The Noble plays really sweetly, as do the other Seydels.
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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A440
156 posts
May 22, 2014
2:30 PM
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Dan, first figure out which keys you use the most, then buy low versions of those keys - if you play a lot of D, get a LD...etc. Yes, LD to LF are easier to play/bend than LLF to LA... so maybe start with a higher key and work your way down.
If you can afford it, the Thunderbird is nice. For less money, a Seydel Session Steel, or Session Standard are good bets.
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mlefree
159 posts
May 24, 2014
1:40 PM
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I would advise that you look into a low-keyed harp with SBS (Steve Baker Special) tuning. SBS tuning can be had in either a 12-hole (Seydel Solist Pro) or 14-hole (Hohner SBS 365 model) harmonica. It grafts the first 4 holes of a low-keyed harp onto the low end of a normal, Richter 10-hole harp.
The result is a harp with many more possibilities than, say a regular 10-hole low-keyed harp. The tongue-blocking potential is endless, offering for example lots of cool octaves combining the low- and normal pitches. It's also neat to be able to play melodies or riffs in the lower register and then echo them in the normal register or vice-versa.
I have lots of fun with mine in Low C. I have both because I had my 365 long before the Solist Pro was available. I jumped on the Solist Pro because it isn't as bulky and is short enough that I can cup it pretty well. The Hohner is a large harp for my hands, but it does deliver absolutely killer tone. It's worth noting that not all keys offered with the Hohner SBS are actually low like the C is. The G, for example has the bottom 4 holes that are the same as a normally tuned G and it adds what amounts to the high G for the rest of the 8 remaining holes. Way too high to be of any use to me.
Also, with the Solist Pro you don't get all of the higher pitch holes. It only has the bottom 8 holes where the larger SBS has all 10 holes. So if you play a lot of high-end stuff, that might influence your decision. I personally am willing to sacrifice the top 2 holes to have a more manageable form factor.
Anyway, I saw that no one had mentioned these terrific SBS-tuned harps so I thought they should be mentioned in this discussion.
Thanks,
Michelle
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Last Edited by mlefree on May 24, 2014 1:42 PM
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BluesJacketman
141 posts
May 24, 2014
3:45 PM
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I would recommend a Low F as a first low harp.
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Rubes
854 posts
May 24, 2014
4:15 PM
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Another vote for an SBS in C......but ditto Michelle's post on everything she said! My favourite harp in my very mixed bag is a self customised SBS in C with a nice Randy Sandoval hardwood comb.....but yes I don't need the top hole anyway.
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Goldbrick
449 posts
May 24, 2014
7:03 PM
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Mick has been playing Lee Oskars for years
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dan.rfd
12 posts
May 29, 2014
2:39 AM
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Thanks for the tips everyone.. by luck I found that HarmonicasDirect still had one or two low key SP20 reed plates so ordered a set in Low E - perhaps not the most useful key but not too expensive and not too low so a good first forray!
I put them on an old SP20 comb last night and absolutely love it. I've tried it with a turbo lid but think I prefer the original SP20 covers as the turbo lid seems to deaden the nive low resonances too much for my liking. They don't seem to rattle unless I squeeze the harmonica. I managed to get the low bends out of it but it will require me to adapt a bit to be able to play them with more agility.
The major added bonus of this harp is that it is much easier to practice without annoying anyone else in the house!
One last question - I'm finding that the 4 draw is just too loud compared to the rest of the holes.. for example it is very hard to get a nice 3/4 bent draw out of it as the 4 hole dominates too much. Is there a way to modify the gap to fix this a bit?
Thanks!
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SuperBee
2038 posts
May 29, 2014
3:29 AM
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Hmm...Lo E huh...managed to get the low bends...
I found I can't get even get the 1 draw bend on my Lo F seydel anymore...and really struggling on the Lo Eb.
I have a Lo D big river...I don't even bother.
I think I can play my Lo F tbird. I could last time I tried.
Maybe I'll focus on these low turnings someday. Or mess with the gap on this session... I should be able to get that 1 draw bend
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Mahcks
5 posts
May 29, 2014
5:49 AM
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It would be nice to see a 14 hole in SBS with Holes spaced like a marine band.
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atty1chgo
950 posts
May 29, 2014
6:26 PM
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Am I the only one getting tired of this constant shilling for Hohner in these strings? (You know who you are). It really detracts from the conversation topic. Just sayin'.
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BluesJacketman
144 posts
May 29, 2014
8:56 PM
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Yeah Sorry to burst your bubble but Hohner sucks. Even when you pay for a premium harp (I.E. MB Deluxe and MB Crossover) it still has some quality control issues. I have never had a problem with a Seydel 1847 or Session Steel.
And Frank theres a reason why the pros use Seydel. THERE BETTER HARPS!
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