TheoBurke
629 posts
May 09, 2014
12:50 PM
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John Hall of Bushman Music Works has announced that he his arranging to have his Delta Frost harmonica manufactured entirely in the United Sates, in Indiana. You read what he wrote at
http://archive.aweber.com/harp/Gci79/h/1st_USA_Harmonica_Maker_in_40_years_.htm
Whattaya think?
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Ted Burke
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheoBurke?feature=mhee
http://ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.coM
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GEEZER1
210 posts
May 09, 2014
1:01 PM
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This sounds good to me. We need more factories and more jobs.
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timeistight
1559 posts
May 09, 2014
1:22 PM
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Fifty bucks, eh? Brad Harrison couldn't make a living selling $280 American-made harmonicas. I wonder what John Hall's secret is?
I think I'll wait for the first Made-in-Canada harmonica.
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The Iceman
1642 posts
May 09, 2014
1:23 PM
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My experience w/John Hall would suggest an "I'll wait and see" attitude.
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The Iceman
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hooktool
127 posts
May 09, 2014
2:38 PM
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He wants the money now, and to send you the harp in 2015. I'll pass.
John
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JustFuya
127 posts
May 09, 2014
5:40 PM
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I don't think it's fair to paint a new business with the same brush as a failed one.
I took a virtual tour of the Harrison factory and saw a lot of brand new top-of-line equipment under a roof with at least 5 mouths to feed. He also admits, to paraphrase, that he is flying by the seat of his pants.
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eharp
2154 posts
May 09, 2014
6:55 PM
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He's asking for a 7 month wait.
What was Brad asking for?
If you never played a Bushman, even at $50, it is a fair price.
But considering it is for a product made in America??
Keep buying the Hohners as they continue to raise their prices a couple of times a year with quality suspect.
This is one of the reasons the country is in its current state.
I think Brad could have made a living at $280 a pop, but he was running into other issues like not delivering the product because he insisted on continuously tweaking/improving them. He, also, had some top tier performers/customizers doing work that may have been over-qualified to do.
Try a Bushman from his current stock, if you haven't played one yet and then decide if it is worth the extra $15, with a lifetime warranty!!
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nacoran
7733 posts
May 09, 2014
7:27 PM
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Justfuya, I don't think they are painting John Hall with the same brush they are painting Harrison; I think they are comparing him to himself. If you search the forum archives, you'll see that while everyone seems to like the Bushman harps, there is a pretty long and heated history involving service issues.
Add to that a business model with pre-orders that already got some people burned with Harrison, and I can understand people being wary.
eharp, I get frustrated with the rising prices of Hohners, but I think it's fairly closely in line with general inflation, material cost increases and exchange rates. I ran the numbers through an inflation calculator once, and the results didn't seem out of line, and most people buying new stock are saying they have the best quality control in years. (My most recent Hohners, a Crossover and an 365 were a mixed bag, the Crossover is alright, but not worth the price bump over a Sp20, and the 365 was busted, but it was extremely old new stock, and they were great about replacing it and the new one is great.)
I'd love to see an American made harp just for national bragging rights, but I'm fine buying from whoever builds the best price/value combo harps.
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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Sarge
405 posts
May 09, 2014
8:17 PM
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I am looking forward to a made in USA harmonica. I'm glad some one has the guts to give it a try even though another person who tried failed. The last USA made harmonica I owned was a Kratt and that was many years ago.
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Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
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GMaj7
403 posts
May 09, 2014
8:38 PM
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It is unfortunate that John Hall needs to be critical of Hohner as part of his marketing strategy. Customers want substance when making a purchasing decision not uninformed commentary.
There's room for more in the market but the margins are narrow so there is no way this will be easy.
I don't think customers should be investors. You can be sure that if those with the money thought this had profit potential, he wouldn't be asking for advance purchases. That alone should be a clue to the shrewd and frugal musician.
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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SuperBee
1970 posts
May 09, 2014
8:43 PM
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A 7 month wait? So not quite as long a wait as when you order one of his current rebranded harp masters ;)
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Sarge
406 posts
May 09, 2014
9:23 PM
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I just recently ordered 3 deltas and had them in 5 days.
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Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
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Piro39
65 posts
May 09, 2014
9:44 PM
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I'm amazed how so many harmonica players keep accepting the rising price of harmonicas and always justifying the increase. Hohner has once again raised their prices and now a Delta Frost is $50.00 and not too long ago I think they were around $18.00. I don't care where it is made. I can remember when a Marine Band was under a dollar and in the early 60's they were $2.50. Are you all going to be complacent when the standard Marine Band hit $100? We just keep accepting inflation with the passive attitude of this is just the way it is and these corporation know it and we keep adapting to their latest price increase. Than there is the other justification story of "Do you know how expensive other instruments are?"
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nacoran
7734 posts
May 10, 2014
2:19 AM
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Piro, $2.50 in 1960 would be about $20 today, so yeah, there is inflation, but looking around the web, I can find a Marine Band C on Amazon for $28. The dollar is weak right now, and copper prices are high, both which add to the cost of the MB. The standard MB shouldn't hit $100 anytime real soon, and by the time it does, $100 will be worth a lot less than it is now.
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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Kaining
39 posts
May 10, 2014
3:09 AM
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Eharp "This is one of the reasons the country is in its current state."
If i may nitpick a little, this is one of the reasons EVERY country is in their current state. When the reason is the same and the consequence is global, you just have to ask where is the money* and who are they kidding.
You know how american culture use or used (i aint' so sure anymore. Maybe not in Detroit) the word comunism as an insult. To the rest of the world, liberalism is an insult when speaking of economy. Just ask any european citizen what they thing about TAFTA, it won't be prety...
Anyway, just to say we all need a better "ism" system or we are all going to cry about a lot more than raising harp prices. First of my list would be unpoisened food (we already shouldn't eat fish anymore, meat isn't so far of bieng crossed of the list...) but hey ! That's just me :D
And sadly, pragmatism won't really help move the masses, so that's not an option.
As for the topic of that thread, i am gla d their is one more compagny on the market. Means more choices, more innovation, more everything. There is no reason NOT to be happy about it.
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sonny3
172 posts
May 10, 2014
4:39 AM
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Are the American made delta frosts going to the same thing as a harpmaster?
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GEEZER1
211 posts
May 10, 2014
4:58 AM
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Its not like he doesn't have excellent harps to sell. RIGHT NOW. The new American made ones will be worth a try.
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FatJesus
48 posts
May 10, 2014
6:36 AM
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Who cares where the thing's made? Make a great harp, and people will follow.
Thing is, I've tried dozens of models and just about every make of harp over the last 20 years. And the DF Bushman was easily the shoddiest/worst. It's like if you took all the best practices of great harmonicas... and then did the opposite.
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TheoBurke
630 posts
May 10, 2014
6:43 AM
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In point of fact, I've purchased two Delta Frost harmonicas through harp depot and was pleased with what I received, a C and a Eb diatonic. Durable, good tone, good response, it was a moderately priced , working harmonica. I still play those harmonicas three years later. I realize John Hall has disappointed a good number of other harmonicas through the years, which is why I posed the question about his starting to make harmonicas on US soil. It would be a grand thing, if it comes to fruition. For the record, I think Delta Frosts are good, solid harmonica.
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Ted Burke
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheoBurke?feature=mhee
http://ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.coM
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Cotton
23 posts
May 10, 2014
8:17 AM
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With todays global economy, I do not understand why Bushmann thinks that "made in USA" will have people flocking to their door. The Delta frosts are made by Suzuki, who pioneered the phosphor/Bronze reed plate. Bushman cannot possibly make it cheaper/better. Most of us already buy a harmonica made in another country. Most all USA made products including USA autos use parts made in another country. The vast majority of consumers just want a well made product and could care less where it was made. Bushmann could use it money better by marketing and promotion instead of setting up a manufacturing facility.
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Sarge
407 posts
May 10, 2014
8:46 AM
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Right now we have no choice but to buy a harmonica made in another country. There are many folks who support made in the USA products. And the statement that the delta frost is made by suzuki is speculation. Also suzuki didn't pioneer phosphor/bronze reeds, it was Wm Kratt. All of that is immaterial, I will support anyone who has the gumption to start a small business enterprise in the US. I supported Harrison and I'll support Hall.
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Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
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jbone
1607 posts
May 10, 2014
1:27 PM
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The US used to be the leader in quality mass production, but that changed with the trend to globalize about 30 years ago. There are pluses and minuses in the equation. One of my careers went global, then a second. I had to meet a new challenge and change my way of thinking about employment and a worker's relationship with an employer. It was not easy.
Harmonicas were most all either German esp Hohner, or Asian junk when I was much younger, say in the 70's. I never heard of Kratt until recently.
I once saw a page from an early 20th century catalog that offered Hohner harps by the DOZEN for under $5. This was when $5 was a week's net pay in a decent job I am sure.
I remember when cigarettes went to 95 cents in the 80's I swore I'd quit if they hit 1 dollar. Finally in 2010 when they passed $5 a pack I did quit. Meanwhile, harps steadily went up. Still do. I can afford a small percentage of my income for harps, yet I insist on good quality and acceptable service. The saving grace for me began with replaceable reed plates, which pretty much keeps me in harps for about half price, and the better quality we see these days. Suzuki is a major player in the market because they offer great variety, high quality, and ease of availability and service. Hohner took one on the chin
over slipping quality some years ago, and they appear to have addressed the issue pretty well.
In any business, the less you spend to make a unit and the more repeatable your process is, the better your bottom line is. But there is a cutoff where you either sell a stable high quality item or you sell junk based on your former reputation. Or in some cases you get in trouble for maybe not telling the whole truth. This was why I stopped buying one particular brand of harp. That and really bad service.
I'd like to see a real deal American harmonica, of good quality at a good price. I am afraid though that the giant companies would always outsell a small venture. But what do I know, look at Kia.
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GEEZER1
212 posts
May 10, 2014
2:07 PM
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I hope this turns out great for all concerned. Quality harps are made, Americans get jobs. Money gets back into our economy. Let the music flow.
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JustFuya
128 posts
May 10, 2014
2:52 PM
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According to their site, Bushman has considerable investment in combs, covers and plates. They are now in the process of cutting reeds. If I was to take a jump into the harp manufacturing business I would have started there. That's where innovation is needed.
Looking at Hohner reeds, I see a lot of inconsistency in the grinding, most notably the weighted ones. Some cuts are coarse, some are fine. If the punch doesn't match the profile of the material those ridges keep us busy straightening reeds. Tighter tolerance has a price but it would save us from having to dink with OOTB harps.
I'm new to straightening reeds (2 so far) but I'll guess that anyone who has done more than a few has a good head start just by looking at that grain.
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Goldbrick
430 posts
May 10, 2014
3:33 PM
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I am very happy with the Delta Frosts that I currently play . making them here would only be a plus and worth a few more bucks
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eharp
2155 posts
May 10, 2014
5:39 PM
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I don't think the $50 will be the standard price for the harp made here.
People are correct, it is seed money, an investment.
But an investment on a product that has the potential to become a collector's item, $50 seems reasonable.
How much do folks pay for a pre WW2 Hohner?
Cotton- folks not caring whereat the best product is made is what helped drive the manufacturing jobs out of this country. Lower payroll by outsourcing the labor, build in other countries to avoid paying taxes should help lower the price of the product. Instead, it became a larger profit margin for the owners.
Anyhow- I still see the buy back option as huge.
What other harp company has offered a full refund?
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JustFuya
140 posts
May 10, 2014
6:27 PM
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I didn't want to pull the 'Made In USA' card because a lot of folks on this forum are not. I'm big on the home team but my biz goes to the one who does it better, not cheaper. I'd love to buy a USA made harp when that becomes a reality. 5k is a burp when it comes to keeping a business going.
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Joe_L
2469 posts
May 10, 2014
7:12 PM
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I was a member of the Bushman forum for years. I have bought and played a number of Bushman harps including the Free Jazz chromatic and a full set of Delta Frosts. Early on, I bought into the hype of American company making harps.
The quality of the chromatic wasn't very good. I should have known when he was blowing them out for $50 a piece. Each one of the Delta Frost harps needed to be tweaked to be playable.
Every single transaction that I had directly with Bushman was fraught with problems even when the harps where supposed to be in stock.
I ended selling off the entire set of them and went back to playing Hohner harps. I never noticed any huge difference in playability between the brands and I could always easily get Hohner harps when I needed them.
I wish him luck.
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walterharp
1379 posts
May 10, 2014
7:18 PM
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I have delta frosts and souls voice harps...they are durable, and play well. they sound good...they are about the same as other harps priced at the same point, and have been the best deal for that quality harp as the prices bounce around. they find their way to my gig harp position at times.
good luck to the brand, if they can make them here, get us a good harp, and make a profit, power to hall...
i doubt anybody is getting fabulous wealthy on this, but if someone can make a decent living on it, good for them.
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