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William Clarkes compressed sound?
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arnenym
283 posts
Apr 24, 2014
10:11 AM
A friend of mine put out this question and get a lot of tips about acoustic tone but.. He got a very good acoustic tone and very good TB technique.
He ask:

Do you know what William Clarke was doing to get the sound he had. Of course his extreme skills is essential. Besides this unarguable fact, is there any accepted modifications for the Bassman that plays an important part to help getting a similar type of sound.

Anyone have a clue?
1847
1727 posts
Apr 24, 2014
10:28 AM
see mp's post on the other thread
he spells it out for you.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
MP
3174 posts
Apr 24, 2014
10:43 AM
Clarke used to use a Fender Super Six and an echoplex.
He used a variety of mics but some claim he prefered ceramic elements. AS Jerry Portnoy likes them I tend to believe he did too.

He used a variety of amps but an original Fender Bassman was his main amp. He stopped using the echoplex in favor of an analog floor pedal delay.

Mics include Astatic JT-30s, JT-30-Cs (C is for ceramic.) Astatic 200 chop (crystal element. this mic is fav of Annie Raines unchopped w/ stand intact). Shure stick mics. Possibly unidynes,unispheres, spherodynes. Just to make things more confusing :-)I heard tell of a CR in an Astatic Biscuit mic too.
a member here owns a shure bullet of Clarkes w/ a ceramic element in it.

SO, the question is- How would one get that sound?

Analog delay set for slight slapback hall sound. Almost zero on repeat setting. Not as heavy as kudzu. Just enough to fatten the sound.

4/10 tube amp that sounds as close to a 50s Bassman as possible.

Crystal, ceramic, or CR bullet mic. The CR has to sound as close to a ceramic or crystal as possible.

The most important part of the equation is the analog delay.

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Last Edited by MP on Apr 24, 2014 11:58 AM
Tuckster
1404 posts
Apr 24, 2014
12:08 PM
I'm thinking it was a Boss DM-2 or DM-3,but my memory is not always the best. :)
1847
1728 posts
Apr 24, 2014
1:19 PM
early on bill used a echoplex,
a tape delay has tubes, tubes will add gain
the gain will saturate the signal to the tape "slightly" compresing the signal.
with the advent of digital delay, he switched to a boss DD3
you can see it in the picture. a DD3 will not add gain it will not compress the signal.
bill was a blues guy, he did not have overly complicated set-up
a jt 30 in to echo into a 410 amp.

tube tape echo


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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
arnenym
284 posts
Apr 24, 2014
1:24 PM
Sound samples:


rbeetsme
1527 posts
Apr 24, 2014
2:01 PM
I always thought Jason Ricci had a very compressed sound. I know he uses a variety of pedals. But guess what? Sitting next to him at a jam last week I was surprised to learn how compressed his acoustic tone was! I know he works very hard to fully seal his harp with his hands, maybe Clarke did too.
5F6H
1770 posts
Apr 25, 2014
1:48 AM
What 1847 says here, "early on bill used a echoplex,
a tape delay has tubes, tubes will add gain
the gain will saturate the signal to the tape "slightly" compresing the signal"...even an SS tape delay will do similar (typically stomp box delays are aimed at being closer to unity gain), they add to the "single-ended" stages in the chain, adding grind, but there's usually some signal losses so you don't get extra squealing feedback with the gainier sound. Even without the delay itself, this preamp effect can be desirable.

Personally (feel free to disagree, or suggest I'm splitting hairs) I'd call Clarke's sound on Rockin' the Boat & certain tracks on Smokey Wilson & WCB more "lo fi" than compressed - harsh, bright edges are subdued, but the amp still has a punchy dynamic, not a big envelope of sag & decay.
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MP
3176 posts
Apr 25, 2014
10:34 AM
I have an Ibanez delay pedal that adds a bit of gain. not much but a bit.
Reverb tanks have tubes (basically a fender champ set-up w/ springs instead of a speaker) and add gain too.

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Last Edited by MP on Apr 25, 2014 10:35 AM
tjtaylor
34 posts
Apr 25, 2014
11:18 AM
I'm not saying William Clark used one, they didn't exist back then, but if you want a little compression this is a great device.
1847
1729 posts
Apr 25, 2014
11:19 AM
this may just be the ticket here
plug into this.. then a DD3
kind of a cross between the early lo-fi sound
and the later hi-fi "live" sound.
i would bet he still used the echoplex in the studio.

secret preamp



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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
HarpNinja
3861 posts
Apr 25, 2014
1:24 PM
I use an Exotic EP Booster, which is like the "secret preamp", but $60 less...and easy to find used.

I set the two internal switches to vintage and use it for both clean and dirty work. I only increase the boost on it if I need to hit a pedal hard with a cold mic (SM58 into a HarpBrea). You can run it at the end of your chain too.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
Rock Harmonica Lessons
MP
3180 posts
Apr 25, 2014
1:38 PM
i would bet he still used the echoplex in the studio.

yeah, me too.
----------
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1847
1730 posts
Apr 25, 2014
4:04 PM
pretty soon were all going to sound exactly
like william clarke.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
1847
1731 posts
Apr 25, 2014
9:20 PM
deal the cards

D harp from the five.

is that a fender deluxe on the cover?
perhaps he is using both in tandem?
the bassman and the deluxe i think he owned both.



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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
Kingley
3572 posts
Apr 25, 2014
10:26 PM
Over the years William Clarke used a lot of different gear. The Bassman and a JT30 (or other bullet mics) with a Boss DM-2 were his standard rig for many years. Sometimes with ceramic or crystal elements and sometimes with CM/CR's in. Towards the end of his life he was using a Bassman , Boss DM-2 and a Shure SM57 a lot, instead of the bullet mics. If you want to get a William Clarke style sound then learn to play tongue blocked octave and fluid single note runs, learn his signature licks, learn fluid third position playing, develop good acoustic tone and learn to cup the mic properly. Then use an old analog delay pedal and a decent Fender valve amp. That'll get you in the ball park.
1847
1732 posts
Apr 25, 2014
11:00 PM
Boss DM-2 ??????????
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
arnenym
285 posts
Apr 26, 2014
1:33 AM
Very cold Bias on powertubes?
5F6H
1771 posts
Apr 26, 2014
4:52 AM
"Very cold Bias on powertubes?"

Hi Arne, that'll take the edge off fidelity & give a fuzzier, more single-ended type tone (in addition to the way that the tape delay would too), but it typically doesn't give a more "compressed" type tone because of the bigger potential for signal swing & higher plate voltage, it can actually make for a harder, punchier dynamic, just with more crunch.

Assuming Bill's bassman was a stock circuit, you'd have to know/see which power tubes were in the amp to answer that for sure. Many of the Chinese & Russian tubes available in the mid-late 80's tend to run lower currents than NOS types.

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www.myspace.com/markburness
Kingley
3573 posts
Apr 26, 2014
5:50 AM
1847 - Yes a Boss DM-2 Analog delay pedal. They were discontinued by Boss in the late 1980's I believe. Best analog delay pedal ever in my opinion. Jason RIcci used one for a long time, so did Chris Michalek, as did I. They add something to your sound that I've never heard any other delay pedal do. William Clarke used one through the eighties and nineties up until he died. Previous to that he used an old Echoplex tape unit.

Last Edited by Kingley on Apr 26, 2014 5:58 AM
1847
1733 posts
Apr 26, 2014
7:12 AM
while you could certainly use an analog delay pedal
for christ sake, it is only being set at 300 milliseconds
no one would be the wiser,and it it is not a make or break proposition. but it is not what he used.



5F6H
nos tubes are readily available and are not that expensive
it is unlikely bill ever used chinese tubes.
matter of fact, thank you, the swap meet is today, the last saturday of the month. i am headed there now, it is about 5 minutes from where bill lived.


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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"

----------





i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
----------



i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
Kingley
3574 posts
Apr 26, 2014
7:22 AM
1847 - I think you are very sadly mistaken. William Clarke used a Boss DM-2 analog delay pedal for a large part of his career. In the early days he used an Echoplex, but in his later years he switched to the Boss DM-2 because it was far more reliable and easier to transport than the Echoplex was. It's a well known fact and many people have commented on it over the years. I know many people who saw him play live, many times and they all say the same thing.

Last Edited by Kingley on Apr 26, 2014 7:22 AM
MindTheGap
435 posts
Apr 26, 2014
7:29 AM
Kingley - could you suggest some tracks I could listen to where he switched from bullet mics to the SM57? Or a rough date and I can go looking. Thanks very much.
1847
1734 posts
Apr 26, 2014
7:30 AM
i can submit proof. take a look at the photo someone posted
on the other thread.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
Kingley
3575 posts
Apr 26, 2014
7:38 AM
Really? You're basing all this on one photograph! Well you can believe whatever you want. It makes not one iota of difference to me. I'll continue to believe the numerous witness testimonies I've heard on the matter as the truth.
5F6H
1772 posts
Apr 26, 2014
7:46 AM
@1847 I think it "unlikely" that you know for sure what he used. They were around, so can't be excluded from consideration.
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www.myspace.com/markburness
Kingley
3576 posts
Apr 26, 2014
7:46 AM
MTG - i don't know if there are any recordings of Clarke using an SM57. I just know from many people that saw him over the years that near the end he was using an SM57. If you do a google search for William Clarke SM57 you'll find some more info I suspect.
5F6H
1773 posts
Apr 26, 2014
7:57 AM
@MindtheGap

http://www.harp-l.com/pipermail/harp-l/2010-June/msg00330.html

I'm sure some video exists too, a friend of mine saw Bill in '96 using a SM57 to blow harp through brown Fender concert amp.

Most folk switch stuff about over the course of their career.
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www.myspace.com/markburness

Last Edited by 5F6H on Apr 26, 2014 7:58 AM
MindTheGap
437 posts
Apr 26, 2014
8:11 AM
Kingley, 5F6H. Thanks both, I've watched the video. I'll look further.
1847
1735 posts
Apr 26, 2014
9:33 AM
the guy to ask is mitch kasmar,
they were like brothers.
what does he use?

another guy out here that was best friends with bill is a guy named magic.
talk to them. they will set you straight.

i have seen bill play many many times.
i have talked to him at length.
we discussed the new addition to his set-up
when he first got it.
i know first hand, i recognized the pedal in the photograph.

the items sitting on bills amp are his.

believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see






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Last Edited by 1847 on Apr 26, 2014 9:35 AM
MP
3181 posts
Apr 26, 2014
10:19 AM
--------This is an amusing thread. "D harp from the five"

Are we playing in A or E? Or....does it really matter that much? :-)

One thing we can all agree on is the cat was one hell of a great blues harp player.

have a good day.------------
Affordable Reed Replacement
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Click user name MP for contact info
1847
1736 posts
Apr 26, 2014
11:08 AM
mp you made me check myself.
i grabbed this harp pictured below
it is a ms hohner... titanium comb crossharp plates and worn black covers,
there are not any markings on it for the key.lol
deal the cards is in the key of A
cross harp, he leans into the 5 draw quite a bit
draw 5 is the flat 7 a G note

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k2ugtaztlmv3mzf/20140426_104242.jpg

i think kingley may be upset,
he has been using the wrong pedal all this time.

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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
1847
1737 posts
Apr 26, 2014
11:15 AM
i just picked up 3 new tubes at the swap meet
rca 12ax7
12au7
and a 5973 for my magnatone
6 dollars total woo-hoo

i was going to drive by bills old house and take a picture
but then it would be based on just one picture
no one would believe me.


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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
MP
3182 posts
Apr 26, 2014
12:58 PM
I used to have a habit of using the wrong gear.

Instead of buying a store clerks Black Face Princeton for $200 I had him order a Snakeskin Champ 12 from the red knob/Rivera period. These were the opposite of what Hartley Peavey was putting out. Transistor pre-amp and the rest of it tube.
Heavy sigh.
I once opened for the Moody Blues using a green bullet and a Fender Vibro-Champ. I was saved by the miracle of microphones and a sympathetic German soundman that it sound huge.

I did buy a black JT-30 from a band director for $15 once. Black w/ chrome grille was only for the Canadian market. Madison Slim wanted to trade me a hammer tone for it because he'd never seen a Black JT-30 but the element died while we were messing w/ a Roland Cube. I had to spend a wopping $8 to get a new 151 from Astatic. (I used to call them on the phone.) Pete Sheridan complimented me on the great paint job not realizing it was original. The upshot is- it wasn't all bad.
----------
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Frank
4185 posts
Apr 27, 2014
4:08 AM
To capture Bills Spirit in your playing you'll need to have "serious intention's" to "blow like hell" when putting mouth to harp... you'll have to do it "the hard way" to get the WC sound :)

arnenym
286 posts
Apr 27, 2014
1:42 PM
It looks like he had big hands. I bet he could get a totally airtight cup. Similar to what i can get with closed plate cover ventilation.
If you get totally airtight and suck as a vacuum cleaner on steroids you get that fluteish tone.

Last Edited by arnenym on Apr 27, 2014 1:43 PM
Frank
4189 posts
Apr 27, 2014
6:15 PM
Here is a beauty :)
MP
3183 posts
Apr 28, 2014
11:10 AM
"To capture Bills Spirit in your playing you'll need to have "serious intention's" to "blow like hell" when putting mouth to harp... you'll have to do it "the hard way" to get the WC sound :)"



Bullshit Frank! Everybody knows that if you just buy the right gear you can sound exactly like whoever you want.

Gotta wear shades to really capture the dark nuances of Clarkes sound.
----------
Affordable Reed Replacement
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Click user name MP for contact info
1847
1740 posts
Apr 28, 2014
11:54 AM
exotic ep booster
there are at least a half a dozen people who make a pedal like that
if you think we are bad, fighting over what tube to use
these guys are arguing over a transistor! not sure which one to buy
secret
exotic
maestro ep
dunlop ep
harpninja i like the idea to use the exotic ep last in line
that may be the best spot for that
tjtaylor where in the signal path do you use it?
are you using a delay as well ?
i have a chandler delay, i have not used it in awhile
it may very well have a boost built in as well.
it sounds almost like an echoplex


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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
MP
3184 posts
Apr 28, 2014
12:19 PM
I think the germanium chip, or lack thereof in your analog delay is the answer to most problems encountered blues harpers. From trying to get all three bends on the three draw to learning positions.
Also you MUST have a very flat comb.
All owners of stock harmonicas oughta just throw 'em out.
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chromaticblues
1566 posts
Apr 29, 2014
5:41 AM
arnenym is absolutely correct!
The biggest part of WC sound was the fact he had big hands and would hold the harp and mic with a death grip because he used ceramic element mics.
Of course using the echo effects also shapes the sound.
Most people don't use these because it's hard to get a full sound. I used one for 16 years and you have to cup the shit out of it to get good base response.
The plus side is they react very quickly and have a snappy quality that dynamics can't replicate.
barbequebob
2534 posts
Apr 29, 2014
10:15 AM
@chromatic blues -- Bullet type mics like the JT30's regardless if it's crystal or ceramic have a tendency to have an omnidirectional (AKA semi-directional) pickup patter wheras most dynamics tend to a cardioid (AKA heart shaped) pickup pattern and most omni directional mikes tend to be hotter and with a cardioid pattern, the amp volume needs to be set louder, but the problem with that is that with a lot of cardioid pattern mikes like SM57/58 types, when the volume is louder, there's a greater chance for some unwanted handling noise which can cause feedback problems.

When I opened for him a few months before he passed away, he had a real '59 Bassman and an early 60's Concert together in series together using an SM57 with a matching line transformer into what appeared to be a Boss DD3 delay and both amps were all stock including the tube numbers being used tho the Concert had a set of Celestion G10-D25 speakers that haven't been made in a decade and prior to the Bassman RI coming out with those blue Eminence speakers, those were the closest thing to a Jensen P10R or P10Q available at the time (which is what I have in my real 59 Bassman and those were installed around 1988).

Years earlier he was using an old, all tube Echoplex and at one time used a Univox Echo, which was basically a poor man's version of an Echoplex, but it makes sense that he went to an analog delay or analog delay because getting the replacement tapes for those units became a real pain in the butt because they were getting more difficult to find and maintenance could be a problem just for that alone.

Much like when I saw Big Walter, he wasn't always tight cupping everything and he himself told me he didn't play very hard all the time.

It's far more his actual acoustic tone and chops that are the main reason for his sound rather than the gear.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
1847
1741 posts
Apr 29, 2014
1:35 PM
bill was one of the only players i know
who did not use a volume control on his mic.
you very rarely heard him having any feedback issues.


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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
Frank
4193 posts
Apr 29, 2014
3:17 PM
This one always gets my goat...its one of those " study and learn it" tunes :)

Last Edited by Frank on Apr 29, 2014 3:17 PM
tjtaylor
37 posts
Apr 29, 2014
4:43 PM
1847, I only use the EP boost, no delay, although I have in the past. I only use it when I want the cranked up Bassman sound at a lower volume. Regarding the EP boost Curtis Salgado said "It Makes A Bad Amp Sound Good And A Good Amp Sound Great" I'd say that's right on the money.
1847
1744 posts
Apr 30, 2014
10:10 AM
these guys are nailing it!


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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
1847
1752 posts
May 01, 2014
11:25 PM
who are these guys?
does anyone know?
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
1847
1753 posts
May 01, 2014
11:34 PM
i,m going to celebrate life.. and have a good time

i,m going to celebrate life.. sure enough, have a good time.

i.m going to have a good time... cause when you're dead you're done
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
NiteCrawler .
294 posts
May 02, 2014
5:14 AM
@1847 I you tubed this and came up with Pitbull Kubu and The Pack,from what I reckon they,re from Japan.I really think that its great that Big Bill has influenced people around the world,including these younger musicians who have a nice feel for the blues.
1847
1754 posts
May 02, 2014
10:34 AM
he reminds me of tex the weeping willow nakamura
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"


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