KentuckyBlues
34 posts
Mar 11, 2014
2:52 AM
|
So my return should be here any day now, spending a large chunk on getting set up.
looking at a hohner special 20 7pack for 292.00, comes with a case for 12, and a MIC.
looking at a burgera v22 22w 1x12 tube guitar combo
and a bflat special 20.
Are these prices decent for the gear
a friend that plays harp recommended the burgera tube amp, said the reverb was sweet and all id really need.
does this sound like a decent starter set up.
been playing ALOT and have sat in with 3 separate groups, all of which were way fun.
I want my own amp that's big enough for a serious small to med. Size jam
and I NEED to start working on my harp set. Special 20 actually has made a huge comeback for me. Like it better than my Hammond now..
|
SuperBee
1744 posts
Mar 11, 2014
5:56 AM
|
I don't think you'll go wrong with the sp20s. I don't know that amp. It may be ok, but you really have to try it or get the lowdown from someone who knows it and has some credibility...even then it can be a personal thing...
Anecdote, just because...first amp I bought was suggested by a guy who taught harp...good player but only a basic kind of teacher...he said check these amps, 30 w valve combo, 1x12". $500
Said he'd played through one and thought it was a hard to pass up deal.
I was just starting to think I could play a bit...not as good as you, by a long chalk...but I bought an amp.
It was a pretty nice guitar amp. Took me a while to start getting harp sound I liked from it. In fact, once I got to recognise nice amped tone, I found I just couldn't get it from the amp...I thought maybe a speaker upgrade but didn't want to overcapitalise...tried some tube subs...didn't really help...finally discovered at least how to make it real loud... But the search was on for an amp I liked...but ever budget conscious...so I bought lots that didn't quite do it...
I have spent plenty $$ on amps now, and satisfied with what I have, pretty much.
But I took that original amp out to jam last night. About 2 years since I last used it with a mic. You know what? It's not bad...sure it sounds different to my 410 and my 28 and the silverface Princeton ...but i can get my sound from it now. Guessing I just learned to play a bit better with the mic and amp.
Which is a long way to say you can probably make that bug era sound ok. I heard you play and your timing and dynamic feel seems PDG already. And also...seems to me that amps, harps, mics, it's all a bit of a trip and goes in cycles with your development as a player. Sometimes the type seems important, sometimes not so much.
How much moola for the Bug anyway? You may be able to score nice 2ndhand around the same as new less suitable budget ?
|
rogonzab
487 posts
Mar 11, 2014
6:30 AM
|
If you want to play in a band, you need power, so the Bugera V22 is a good bet if you dont have much money.
I had never played the Bugera V22, but I owned for a while a Bugera V5. It was a good amp, nice clean to dirty sound, is a low gain design, so that is good. I guess that the V22 is very similar, all the videos on YT of that amp are guy playing clean, or blues, and that is a good thing for harp.
Also, the V22 is cheap, by far the cheapes tube amp whit more than 15w in my country. A new Bugera V22 cost half of the price of a (ab)used blues junior.
If yoy buy it, please make a video.
|
HawkeyeKane
2355 posts
Mar 11, 2014
7:23 AM
|
The harp pack comes with a mic eh? What kind? Bluesblaster?
----------
Hawkeye Kane
|
Goldbrick
338 posts
Mar 11, 2014
9:41 AM
|
The good news on Bugera-they sound good ( when they work and dont rattle).
The bad- they are the hi end line of Behringer which has reliability issues and little customer support. I would rather trust my 50 year old gibson skylark than a new behringer product
I was lent one of their acoustic amps and some of their mics by a local store to try out-the amp died before the 3rd set and the mics ended up getting used for my drum kit
I am a tube lover from way back ( my Dad had a Radio and TV shop back when those things had tubes )
Its heresy - but as a new player I would say find a clean Fender or Roland solid state amp with reverb in the 50 watt range- a quality mic and go from there.. You can load in and load out all day everyday without worrying about them croaking-plus they weigh less
Then get a good little 5 watt tube amp to record with as you progress. Just another opinion from my experience( and we know what they are usually worth)
Buying an amp just 'cause its got tubes is like marrying a woman just cause she has big...
Well you know what I mean- try a bunch of amps first with YOUR mic
Last Edited by Goldbrick on Mar 11, 2014 9:43 AM
|
rogonzab
488 posts
Mar 11, 2014
9:50 AM
|
Goldbrick,
I was close to buy the Bugera V22 once (but ended up whit a champ) and I read many reviews of the amp, and every one love it (guitar players of course), and they all says that is very well built. Maybe other Behringer products are cheaply made, but not all of them.
My opnion is "go for the tubes" 99.9% of the amplified harp that you hear on records is tubes.
How much money do you have? can you pay a Memphis Mini?
|
Goldbrick
339 posts
Mar 11, 2014
10:27 AM
|
Live yes, if it is straight thru the amp in a good room a good tube amp rules. But now you need headroom and , headroom means weight and money
A V22 isnt all that cheap compared to some better choices out there. Why not a used Princeton reissue- I bought one for $400 and trust that. Plus the day I get tired of it ( doubt it ) I can get that $400 back in a heartbeat
Everything is a trade off.
But see you bought the Champ ( a great amp )
Asi, en esta vida , no hay rosas sin espinas
Last Edited by Goldbrick on Mar 11, 2014 10:34 AM
|
KentuckyBlues
35 posts
Mar 11, 2014
2:18 PM
|
In going to test the bugera v22 out this weekend.
I like the bugera, under 400 bucks, and like I said have a friend that says its great for harp.
I mispoke, the harp pack only has a SPOT for a MIC, the harps are all special 20's though.
I have a smaller solid state amp that I like, bit I'm quickly getting into playing with various bands, which means I have to cut through drums, in an apartment, so the v22 should have the volume I need. It also has some pretty cool settings.
I'm basically decided on this amp, but open to suggestions.
my limit is 900$
the harps. Will be 292$
and the bugera is 379
I also realize just because she has tubes doesn't make her sound good, but
I have a buddy, he says its good,I'm testing it this weekend.
if/when I buy this amp I will deff. Make a nice sexy review vid for it.
hey it even comes with a foot pedal switch for reverb and dirty channel..
this will be my first tube amp, btw
also buying from musicians friend. Buy there alot, will get a fun discount so I'll end up paying a bit less.
they have a 7 pack of the golden melodies for a few dollars more (322 or so) that seems nice, maybe in a few months.
the fiance has just simmered down over the fact that I'm spending 300 on harmonicas, but hey, a decent guitar cost several hundred dollars as well.
Last Edited by KentuckyBlues on Mar 11, 2014 2:55 PM
|
BluesJacketman
96 posts
Mar 11, 2014
6:42 PM
|
I would not get a bugera. I would search far and wide for a vintage tube amp non name brand. Kalamazoos are great. Harmonys are amazing. I have a Multivox model 45 which I love. You can find the best harp amp out there, and it will be vintage and it will have great tone. Those amps that are great for harp out there won't be that expensive either. I would not touch a bugera.
|
KentuckyBlues
36 posts
Mar 11, 2014
7:59 PM
|
Why would you not touch a bug era?
nothing but good reviews, my harp buddy loves it.
ima go try it out this weekend, and if it sounds good, ima get it..
|
BluesJacketman
97 posts
Mar 11, 2014
8:16 PM
|
Because its an over priced, made in china POS GUITAR AMP. Whats good for guitar is not always good for harp. For the same price or a little bit more you could get a vintage made in america tube amp. Don't buy this first amp you try. Try a bunch. Take your mic to all the local shops in the area. check craigslist. Just because your harp playing buddy likes it for harp doesn't mean its great for all the harp players out there.
Have you ever played out of a vintage tube amp?
I got my Multivox late 60s all tube amp made in america for 150. I had a harmony late 60s all tube made in america bought it for 140.
Last Edited by BluesJacketman on Mar 11, 2014 8:22 PM
|
Goldbrick
341 posts
Mar 11, 2014
8:27 PM
|
+1 on that
|
Rick Davis
3056 posts
Mar 11, 2014
9:25 PM
|
BluesJacketMan- The Multivox amps are killer. I bought an early 60s Marvel tube amp (made by Multivox) in a used music gear store for $50. I refurbed it and it sounded awesome, better than my Premier Twin 8. I'd buy another if I could find it.
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
|
BluesJacketman
98 posts
Mar 11, 2014
9:43 PM
|
Yeah, I tried tons of amps; Champs, Deluxes, Blues Juniors, Pro Juniors, Bassmans, Princetons, Kalamazoos, Harmonys, Mesa Boogies, Gibson amps, and my favorite is the Multivox. I also really liked the blackface princetons. Your Blog has alos been EXTREMELY helpful too, so thank you Rick! Kentuccky you should look at his blog.
|
Rick Davis
3058 posts
Mar 11, 2014
9:43 PM
|
As far as the Bugera V22, well.... um... I'd probably go a different route. Is it possible to find a used Fender Pro Jr in your area? It is also a 2xEL84 amp and has been used for harp by many good players. You can get pretty good tone out of it with a few simple mods and some good playing technique. It is a workhorse amp, very loud. You can gig it.
The Blues Harp Amps Blog has the info you need for the mods. Click on the link under my sig and search for "Pro Jr."
(BluesJacketMan, thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you found the info on the blog helpful.)
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Mar 11, 2014 9:46 PM
|
KentuckyBlues
37 posts
Mar 11, 2014
9:46 PM
|
Like I said guys, I'm going to try out the bugera, and a few others. If it sounds good that that's what I'm looking for.
I've never had a tube amp.
I have a solid state fender, but I want something alittle louder.
also the reverb sounds amazing.
the Princeton used was 500+ bucks, sorry but I'm getting a mid priced amp, considering I'm,not a professional player.
now if you guys can point me to a similar priced, or cheaper that's just as loud and you think it will sound great, awesome.
I need something for casual jams with friends, and I'll need to cut through drums in an apartment room setting.
|
BluesJacketman
99 posts
Mar 11, 2014
10:00 PM
|
You are not a pro player but you do aspire to be one. Have you ever heard the phrase "Buy once, cry once"?
Some good amps in your price range are: Used Fender Pro Junior(then mod it like Ricks Blog) 350-450(after mods), Fender Excelsior 200-300, Kalamazoo 300-500, just to name a few.
|
BluesJacketman
100 posts
Mar 11, 2014
10:06 PM
|
Are there any guitar shops in your area? Check out there amps. Check pawn shops too. Vintage non name brand tube amps are some of the best for harp I.E. Harmony, premier, multivox, marvel, Kalamazoo, those are the kind of amps that little Walter would play in the studio.
|
KentuckyBlues
38 posts
Mar 12, 2014
12:15 AM
|
I don't want to mod anything.
I am going to guitar center this weekend on the way to my friends.
I'll let you guys know what I think.
at the end of the day the sound I like best is what I'm going with.
|
KentuckyBlues
39 posts
Mar 12, 2014
12:32 AM
|
Looked at he Memphis mini, but that's just a bit too much for me. I want to have the money to get a nice stash of harps going as well.
also looking at some sure mics for non bullet MIC style playing.
also getting a little bass drum like Adam has.
so yeah I don't want to spend more than say 380 for the amp..
I appreciate all the responses,
if I do by chance get the bugera I'll make sure to do a video review.
I'll also see if my friend can do that sooner.
from what he has told me, the bugera for the price is totally worth it, and sounds great for harp and guitar, which I'm picking up as well...
like I said though, I do appreciate the feedback
any ideas for an amp that's loud enough, tube driven, and around 380 or so?
|
SuperBee
1750 posts
Mar 12, 2014
5:12 AM
|
Seems like you're looking mid-sized. I was gonna suggest pro jr, or used Princeton but I see Princeton too $$. Fair dink, pro jr is probably the best thing going in that size that will give you least grief and retain some resale value. Buy secondhand and don't pay for depreciation. That's my motto...but I can't bring myself to sell any amp anyway. But that amp I mention above...that's worth nix now , even though it's 'perfect' as new...no one will look at it...a 30w valve combo advertised at $160...not a sniff.
Kalamazoo, champ, vht etc all too small I think.
I dunno anyone playing harp with an amp in that power range who is using a 'stock' current production amp other than one of those fenders...I'm sure they're out there but I just keep seeing boutique, antique, vintage, and Princeton reissues and pro juniors. A few blues juniors but I bet they're modded.
Not to say you can't get good sounds from other gear . What about the vox hybrid like Garry uses, or the fender super champ x2 Dave Barrett recommends. Some of those hybrid modelling amps are pretty good value. The super champ x2 is 15 w with a 10" speaker...
There must be others. Hawkeye was making a list of current production amps suitable for harp....hey, Tim!!?
|
HawkeyeKane
2365 posts
Mar 12, 2014
8:27 AM
|
LOL! Thanks Dave. A good number of the amps I had on that list have actually been discontinued, so I'm kinda stalling on that project. However....
I think I might have a very suitable amp for you Kentucky. Finding one might be a little difficult, but I know they're running for very reasonable prices since they were discontinued recently. Try hunting for an Ampeg GVT15. Musiciansfriend had a few in restock for about $225. 15 watts, three band Bandaxal EQ (meaning you can adjust one of the three parameters without it affecting the tone of the other two), and a spring reverb with a 12" speaker. An affordable alternative to a PRRI. My buddy Brad has used one live, and it sounds killer for harp! I should make mention though that the Celestion speaker had been swapped for an Eminence Screamin' Eagle.
Ampeg GVT15-112
----------
Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on Mar 12, 2014 8:36 AM
|
KentuckyBlues
40 posts
Mar 12, 2014
2:13 PM
|
I'll check it out.
heard bad things about coil reverbs breaking.
is that common?
|
HawkeyeKane
2368 posts
Mar 12, 2014
2:30 PM
|
Reverb tanks can stand up to considerable abuse, and when they do break, they're very inexpensively replaced. In my experience, most problems with the circuit side of them can usually be easily tracked down.
i have some video of my friend blowing through one. I'll try and upload it to youtube tonight and post it here later.
----------
Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on Mar 12, 2014 2:31 PM
|
HawkeyeKane
2369 posts
Mar 12, 2014
4:53 PM
|
Here you go. Brad's using a Front & Center mic with a Turner ceramic element in it.
)
----------
Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on Mar 12, 2014 4:53 PM
|
Goldbrick
342 posts
Mar 12, 2014
6:20 PM
|
Cant beat accutronics reverb in a Fender-surf heaven on full and just damn cool otherwise. I have kicked em dropped em and played the crap out of em without a problem
Last Edited by Goldbrick on Mar 12, 2014 6:20 PM
|
KentuckyBlues
41 posts
Mar 12, 2014
8:37 PM
|
Just finished playing open MIC night. Tested out a buddies 1959 tweed that Butterfield supposedly used at eoodstock
amp sounded tight.
really liked the sound
|
HawkeyeKane
2370 posts
Mar 13, 2014
7:10 AM
|
" Tested out a buddies 1959 tweed that Butterfield supposedly used"
Really? Isn't that the amp that was a recent hot topic of discussion here somewhere?
----------
Hawkeye Kane
|
KentuckyBlues
43 posts
Mar 13, 2014
4:12 PM
|
Was it? He could be a member here..
can you link me to that thread?
also for what it's worth, the 59bassman has the best sound I've heard so far..
|
BluesJacketman
101 posts
Mar 13, 2014
4:56 PM
|
you like the bassman? what did i say in an earlier post?
"For the same price or a little bit more you could get a vintage made in america tube amp."
Doesn't that describe the bassman.
Mind you though any amp owned by Butterfield would have been modded. Not any tweed bassman off the block will sound like that, but tweed fenders in general sound amazing for harp.
|
BluesJacketman
102 posts
Mar 13, 2014
5:01 PM
|
I don't know who owns butters tweed bassman but Kinya Pollard owns his blackface super reverb.
|
KentuckyBlues
44 posts
Mar 13, 2014
5:18 PM
|
Well supposedly this guy near me owns it. Don't wana put his name on here without his knowledge though.
@bluesjacketman, those are going for 1k plus used. Thats way out of my range.
now, if I get really good,yeah, I'll justify spending that on an amp....
I have since played the bugera, wanted to have the fresh sweet memory of sexy vintage tubage in my head.
the bugera does not sound as good.
thats obvious
BUT the bugera has a diode/triode switch, and I really liked the diode sound.
reverb is insane, to where full blast wouldn't work with harp well...
I like the sound, and for the price I think its a decent risk to take.
I'm going to guitar center tomorrow with my MIC and amp to play through some other tubes, they supposedly have a few vintage amps used near my price range.
|
BluesJacketman
104 posts
Mar 13, 2014
5:30 PM
|
Yeah but remember this; you buy bugera, say a few monthes or years down the line, you sell it for only 1/2-1/4 what you paid for it. Buy Vintage and you can sell it down the line for what you paid for it or more. AND you don't need to buy a vintage tweed fender, lots of amps from the 50s and 60s sound very similar, just find the off-name brand.
What kind of tone do you want. I'm sure some of us here can recommend some amps for you.
Last Edited by BluesJacketman on Mar 13, 2014 5:31 PM
|
KentuckyBlues
45 posts
Mar 13, 2014
6:05 PM
|
I can just keep the bugera as a guitar amp and get a new amp when I can afford it. This is like a "getting ghetto set up so I can play with real people soon"
the sound I want the sound coming from the harp.
I liked how that bassman was clean, but had a different tone to it, not sure how to describe it.
I'm open to any ideas for amp, as I want the best I can afford, but my budget has amp cost at >400
that being said, from what I have played, (fenders mostly) the bugera seems like the best bang for the buck.
I do understand vintage will be worth the same or more because it vintage, even when you sell it, but I don't see many vintage used amps in my price range that have the volume I need.
I NEED to be able to cut through on stage, I want to use my amp, not a pa, and if you guys can point me to a nice n loud, but fairly CLEAN sound, thats what I want.
or the closest to that modded vintage bassman, but I feel that is something I will have to just save up for.
don't get me wrong, money isn't that tight, I work way too much and this is the only link to a social life (music) I have. Don't spend my money on beer or stuff like that, so I'll be able to save up for a nice vintage amp within 2 to 3 months or so.
if I buy that bugera (thats still a maybe)at absolute worst I have a solid practice guitar amp..
the sound the bugera gets when you use the diode mode is nice on a harp.. Whatever that means in amp terms.. Diode vs pentode is what is has.. Diode sounded good on harp..
|
blueswannabe
423 posts
Mar 13, 2014
6:14 PM
|
Billy Branch uses a Peavey Special 130, solid state, amp. It's a cleaner sound, and you can't dispute his tone. That amp is within your budget.
Last Edited by blueswannabe on Mar 13, 2014 6:23 PM
|
KentuckyBlues
46 posts
Mar 13, 2014
6:16 PM
|
Do you know what one, or are most solid states going to sound similar?
I thought tubes were the way to go for harmonica?
I think all things aside I'm starting a fender 59 fund, that amp sounded amazing..
|
blueswannabe
424 posts
Mar 13, 2014
6:21 PM
|
see video I just posted. It has a 12 inch speaker and two channels, clean and distorted. It's loud. See beloew, it might still be for sale.
http://reverb.com/item/22386-peavey-special-130-amplifier?id=22386-peavey-special-130-amplifier&gclid=CM_C2fnukL0CFbBj7Aodcy8A7A
Last Edited by blueswannabe on Mar 13, 2014 6:27 PM
|
KentuckyBlues
47 posts
Mar 13, 2014
6:40 PM
|
That amp sounded good. Not a huge fan of pedel effects however.
|
blueswannabe
426 posts
Mar 13, 2014
6:47 PM
|
there are you tube videos posted by attychicago where Billy is using a peavey special 130 at Rosa's.
|
KentuckyBlues
48 posts
Mar 13, 2014
8:08 PM
|
That peavy 130, has a decent sound, not bad..
|
KentuckyBlues
50 posts
Mar 18, 2014
1:49 AM
|
Played for a long time at guitar center.
the bugera has the sound I'm really wanting.
also got a shure bullet MIC, a shaker mad dog MIC, an amp stand, and some other various gear.
I'll do a video review for sure.
thanks for the advice guys
Oh, and for you vintage buffs..ill be going to look at a Kalamazoo this weekend. Probably buying it.
|
rogonzab
508 posts
Mar 18, 2014
6:04 AM
|
KentuckyBlues, please make that video review of the bugera.
Enjoy your new gear!!!!
|
HawkeyeKane
2388 posts
Mar 18, 2014
7:58 AM
|
Send that Zoo to Greg if you buy it. He'll get her singing nicely. :-)
----------
Hawkeye Kane - Hipbone Sam
|
Slimharp
246 posts
Mar 18, 2014
8:41 AM
|
Kentucky - the Kalamazoo ( Gibson ) might just give you the sound you want but not the head room you need that you describe. One amp not mentioned here that can be clean and or dirty with all the headroom you need is the Fender Blues DeVille - 4-10s 60 watt. It has a clean channel ( similar to a Bassman ) and a dirty channel. You can find them all day long for $400.00. Also you may want to Check E-Bay. Many old Gibsons on there from $200.00 to $600.00. The Blues DeVille is an ass kicking amp with many various tones you can get out of it. They are heavy, just a bit more than a Bassman and they can get LOUD !
|
KentuckyBlues
51 posts
Mar 18, 2014
11:33 PM
|
I will most certainly make a review.
it seems now they have a better pedal added, and it does have the clean and dirty channel.
effects in and out on back, as well as the ability to plug out to various different pa's and such, but im not familiar with that kind if stuff.
the Kalamazoo, if I get it, may need some work, and I'm glad to know it could get fixed via this place.
now just cross fingers it stays for sale til I can get there.
if not, all is well, I have little extra and will end up getting one, maybe could MIC the kal thru the bugera...
|
HawkeyeKane
2391 posts
Mar 19, 2014
7:14 AM
|
If you send the Zoo to Greg, he can install his line out jack to it, and you can run the Zoo directly to the Bugera. I've done this with my Zoo numerous times with different amps.
----------
Hawkeye Kane - Hipbone Sam
|
KentuckyBlues
52 posts
Mar 20, 2014
12:51 AM
|
Thats a very savory idea, I bet that would sound killer.
also just finished my second open MIC night.
thanks for the forum guys been a big help.
|
