Gnarly
922 posts
Feb 25, 2014
4:57 PM
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An interesting tuning for second position blues!
I spotted this on the Wiki page on Harmonica. Looks bendy--and fully chromatic without overbends, hmmm . . .
I think I am going to retune one of my PowerChromatic Special 20s to this tuning so I can check it out!
Wondering if anyone has information on it, especially first hand experience.
Check the next post, there are similarities between these useful tunings . . .
Last Edited by Gnarly on Mar 01, 2014 2:35 AM
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Gnarly
923 posts
Feb 25, 2014
6:47 PM
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Optimized Blues Tuning (Bb6/Amajor7)
G Bb D F G Bb D F G Bb
1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10.
A C# E G# A C# E G# A C#
Temptation (Bb6/A6)
G Bb D F G Bb D F G Bb
1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10.
A C# E F# A C# E F# A C#
IV6/V6 AKA PowerBender and Magic Bop Band(Bb6/C6)
Bb D F G Bb D F G Bb D
1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10.
C E G A C E G A C E
Solo Tuning (in G, for the purposes of comparison)
G B D G G B D G G B
1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10.
A C E F# A C E F# A C
Last Edited by Gnarly on Mar 01, 2014 2:34 AM
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isaacullah
2644 posts
Feb 26, 2014
7:56 AM
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It does indeed look interesting, and easy to retune from a solo layout. I think these kinds of tuning logics are great, since the same breath patterns can be repeated in each octave. I've really enjoyed playing Easy Third tuning, which also follows that kind of logic:
Easy Third: (Bb/Cmin)
Blow Bb D F Bb D F Bb D F Bb
....... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Draw C Eb G C Eb G C Eb G C
I may indeed have to try this Optimized Blues tuning!
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Last Edited by isaacullah on Feb 26, 2014 7:59 AM
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isaacullah
2645 posts
Feb 26, 2014
8:14 AM
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Actually, now that I'm looking at it, I notice that it reduces the range of the harp to 2 octaves plus two notes in the third octave. BUT, there are A LOT of bends, AND it's fully chromatic with ONLY draw bends, AND fully consistent breath patterns in each octave. It actually seems pretty ingenious! I wonder why I hadn't heard of it before? If it was made on a 12 hole diatonic, it would have almost 3 octaves... Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, this tuning seems like *the* thing to do with a 12 hole diatonic layout. I think it would be VERY easy to retune a 12-hole Solo-tuned diatonic to this, and would probably be much more useful and interesting to play. I think I will be doing this in the very near future!
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Last Edited by isaacullah on Feb 26, 2014 8:16 AM
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isaacullah
2646 posts
Feb 26, 2014
8:35 AM
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I found where this tuning originates: http://www.bluesharmonica.de/english-frame.html. Follow that link to see A LOT of information about this tuning, including how various scales layout in different positions (and direct comparison to those same scales on normal richter layout). Also notice the layout given for this tuning on a MB 364/24 (about halfway down the page). THAT's the layout that I think would make this tuning a real winner...
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GamblersHand
488 posts
Feb 26, 2014
10:06 AM
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Not sure I follow the Optimized Blues tuning - is this to play Cross Harp in C# ?
Then the 4th note of the scale would be a 4 draw double bend, which will certainly give a different flavour to a lot of classic riffs.
I'm not a fan of a flat third tuning either - I've always thought that a big part of authentic sounding blues is the expressiveness between the flat third to major third on the I chord - and then playing the "full" flat third on the IV. Fine for minor blues of course.
Having the VIIb chord is interesting though
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isaacullah
2648 posts
Feb 26, 2014
11:38 AM
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GamblersHand: In the way Gnarly laid out this tuning, you'd use the 1 draw as the tonic in "2nd position", not the 2 draw. Other than that, playing a blues scale would be remarkable similar to how one would play it on a "normal" richter layout, except that your octave would be on a draw note (in this case, the 5 draw), and not a blow note (i.e., the 6 blow on a normal richter). Check the link in my previous post to see exactly how this compares between the two layouts...
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Gnarly
925 posts
Feb 26, 2014
4:50 PM
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ok, I retuned a harp to this--
Interesting, fully chromatic with no overbends, the blues in the draw key can be fun, but beware the minor second interval between holes 4-5 and 8-9!
One more tuning to explore . . .
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GamblersHand
489 posts
Feb 27, 2014
12:48 AM
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Thanks isaacullah - that makes more sense!
Looks a good tuning.
I'd miss having the flat-seventh note as a draw, and I guess that you'd avoid any slaps or partial blow chords on the blow notes - especially as Gnarly says those flat-second notes on the 2 / 6 / 10 blow
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isaacullah
2651 posts
Feb 27, 2014
6:24 AM
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Yeah, it would take some getting used to, but I certainly can see the advantages of this tuning for certain things. It's interesting to note that Heiner Krüger (the author of the site I linked to) has an "alternative" layout of this tuning for "chord rhythms", in which he positions the 2nd position tonic on draw three, and then raises the blow two by a half step to give a V chord on the low blow notes.... That would make it perhaps more versatile so that it could cover a variety of different styles of Blues playing...
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boris_plotnikov
925 posts
Feb 27, 2014
12:43 PM
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Gnarly
It looks more logicl to make a double G (like on powerchromatic). It'll be a full chromatic tuning for 2,5 octaves. But not really useful blow intervals.
Gm7 blow chord
A7 draw chord (similiar to 2-5 richter pattern)
G Bb D F G Bb D F G Bb
A C# E G A C# E G A C#
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boris_plotnikov
926 posts
Feb 27, 2014
12:44 PM
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Gnarly
It looks more logicl to make a double G (like on powerchromatic). It'll be a full chromatic tuning for 2,5 octaves. But not really useful blow intervals.
Gm7 blow chord
A7 draw chord (similiar to 2-5 richter pattern)
G Bb D F G Bb D F G Bb
A C# E G A C# E G A C#
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Gnarly
926 posts
Feb 27, 2014
1:40 PM
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Right, still chromatic. Note the similarities to Temptation.
I like Power Chromatic well enough to bring it to gigs in several keys--I doubt this OBT will make it to the stage.
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hannes
24 posts
Feb 28, 2014
4:35 PM
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Boris' tuning variation gives a D harmonic minor scale starting on blow 3 and may very well be the perfect tuning for Klezmer music I've always been looking for, with very usable chords and partial chords in the context of the three main Klezmer modes - thank you Boris ! I just ordered a harp from Seydel in that tuning.
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Gnarly
929 posts
Feb 28, 2014
8:58 PM
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Yay!
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boris_plotnikov
929 posts
Feb 28, 2014
9:53 PM
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hannes
Really!
And still fully chromatic
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Gnarly
931 posts
Mar 01, 2014
2:32 AM
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Sure enough--I just retuned the SP20 to your variation and ripped thru Miserlou!
Trying Charades next . . .
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MP
3102 posts
Mar 01, 2014
11:10 AM
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Wrote down tuning for Power Bender before I go off deep end w/ this new tuning.
Gonna build myself a Power Bender/ Magic Bop Band to see what it's all about. Hardly have any customers so I can mess w/ ideas and do long over due maintenance on my own harps.
EDIT: Power Bender is Powers baby. Not kosher. Will abort
project.
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Last Edited by MP on Mar 02, 2014 9:57 AM
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Brendan Power
419 posts
Mar 02, 2014
4:01 AM
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Interesting thread. Don't worry, I'm not going to claim I invented Optimized Blues Tuning in 1984 or something ;-) It looks fun; any tuning with lots of draw bends is good in my book.
However Boris's version of it with doubled notes is similar to a tuning I use for my composition Sweet Bulgarity, first recorded in Sofia with some great Bulgarian musicians in 1999. You can hear a clip of it here:
Sweet Bulgarity, from the "Bulgarian Project" Album
And here's a version played with the brilliant Lucy Randall, who pioneered playing in 7/8 time on the Irish bodhran:
I'll call the tuning BRENDAN'S BULGARIAN TUNING. The doubled notes are in a differnt place to Boris' version. Mine is just PowerChromatic with one note change, but it adds a lot of flavour for the Arabic/Balkan styles.
Here it is on a 12 hole chrom, tuned in the same scale but a semitone apart:
Slide Out:
G Bb D E G Bb D E G Bb D E
A C# E F# A C# E F# A C# E F#
Slide In:
G# B D# F G# B D# F G# B D# F
A# D F G A# D F G A# D F G
That's the scale used on Sweet Bulgarity. It's a half-valved chrom, so all draw notes can be bent.
The cool thing about it is that, not only do you get an easy Arabic/Klezmer type scale (as Hannes says with Boris' version), but when you push the slider in you get the same scale with draw bends!
You can hear me doing that at the beginning and middle parts of the tune. It's like two harmonicas in one. It's a great combo: very fast and fluid for melody, plus the soulful bent version whenever you want it.
This is another example of why the alt-tuned half-valved chromatic is such a fantastic harmonica choice. It's got soul from the bends, lots of what I call Bend Enharmonicas (notes that are the same as the built-in ones but available through bending), and all chromatic notes built-in with perfect tuning when that's needed. Hard to beat with any other approach!
Last Edited by Brendan Power on Mar 02, 2014 5:24 AM
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The Iceman
1497 posts
Mar 02, 2014
2:48 PM
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Wow. Excellent world music sound. Nicest bodhran tone I've heard. Makes me want to study this instrument, too.
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The Iceman
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Gnarly
935 posts
Mar 04, 2014
12:32 AM
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Thanks Brendan, for checking in on this.
Alternate tunings, once you get past any confusion, are wonderful for incorporating different sounds using harmonica.
I don't think Brendan will mind if you retune your own harmonicas, even if he was the first one to implement the tuning, as long as you give credit where it is due.
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Gnarly
946 posts
Mar 07, 2014
12:07 PM
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Back to the original thread: having retuned a couple of harps to OBT and Boris's variation, his tuning
G Bb D F G Bb D F G Bb
A C# E G A C# E G A C#
is a winner.
Best features--minor blues in first position (by which I mean, the key of the blow chord), you can draw bend to get the blue third, it's fully chromatic (in all positions LOL)--and more to the point, the tuning is consistent! On the OBT, there is a blow hole lower than the previous draw hole--I don't need that kind of wrinkle in my undergarments.
I don't think we have a name for it yet, suggestions are always welcome, I am going to call it IVm7/V7 until something sexier presents itself. Of course, I am not sure that jibes with my assessment of first position. But, still, this is a pretty cool tuning . . .
Last Edited by Gnarly on Mar 07, 2014 5:31 PM
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Brendan Power
420 posts
Mar 07, 2014
4:06 PM
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@MP: Gnarley is right, my personal tunings are in the public domain, open for anyone to try and make for themselves. It's always interesting to hear the stuff other folks play on them.
If you can't make them yourself Seydel will do them for you, and I or other customisers can do them in other brands.
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Gnarly
947 posts
Mar 07, 2014
5:29 PM
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Except for the Chinese tuning, I assume.
By the way, very cool stuff Mr. Power.
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MP
3107 posts
Mar 07, 2014
9:41 PM
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Thank you Brendan! Very gracious of you. Howzit Gnarly!
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Gnarly
950 posts
Mar 08, 2014
10:41 AM
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@MP enjoying our mild Santa Ana, it's like summer in San Diego this weekend.
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