MindTheGap
241 posts
Feb 09, 2014
5:53 AM
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The Beginners' Thread has been running a while now, and has 171 posts, but to be fair quite a few from me, partly to keep it on page 1 so new users will see it, as this forum doesn't support sticky posts it seems.
Do you think the Beginners' Thread should:
A - Remain as it is, a thread in this forum
B - Be held in a separate forum on the same website
C - Other (please detail)
Adam is happy for A or B. For C, we would need to ask.
It would be useful to know if, even if you don't post there, you read it.
Thank you.
MTG
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Honkin On Bobo
1176 posts
Feb 09, 2014
6:21 AM
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MTG,
First off, nice job MTG in suggesting to Adam to establish the beginner thread. Despite not being a raw beginner, I've gone to the thread a number of times and found the discussions interesting and helpful.
I would say that if Adam is cool with option B, then it would seem to me that would be the way to go. As that thread gets longer and longer sub-discussions will become harder and harder to find.
Anway, nice job getting that thread going.
Last Edited by Honkin On Bobo on Feb 09, 2014 6:22 AM
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tookatooka
3623 posts
Feb 09, 2014
6:40 AM
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Option B for me MTG. I suppose I'm an intermediate (sort of) but I fall back regularly and keep needing to refresh with the basics and the beginners forum is good for that.
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Mirco
93 posts
Feb 09, 2014
9:39 AM
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I think option B. Option B would give the forum a dedicated place, so it wouldn't get lost on page 2 of the main forum.
Also, it would allow the beginners to have separate threads on different topics.
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laurent2015
588 posts
Feb 09, 2014
10:11 AM
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Yes, option B...and same processing for the "where are you from?" thread.
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Frank
3809 posts
Feb 09, 2014
10:11 AM
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I feel it would remain relevant and successful employing either the A or B option...
For a "C" option... I would suggest being more inclusive with the title and implore intermediate players to partake in the discussions. The reason is, unless a players actual skill levels are varifiable -
there can sometimes be a fine line between a beginner and intermediate player.
Last Edited by Frank on Feb 09, 2014 10:12 AM
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DukeBerryman
140 posts
Feb 09, 2014
10:17 AM
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I like the beginners thread because I am more advanced on some things but still a beginner on others things, and a seperate forum would be super helpful. And thanks for all the contributions.
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MindTheGap
242 posts
Feb 09, 2014
11:11 AM
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Laurent - would you mind expanding your last post? I don't quite understand Thanks.
Frank, I agree about the being more inclusive. It was not really intended as 'Beginners' in the sense of Adam's definition. In fact it would be good IMO if other people could post things of direct interest to learners. For instance I would like to put your recent essay in there, for reference.
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MTG
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Frank
3810 posts
Feb 09, 2014
12:55 PM
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Adam does mention that a member of the beginners thread has the jurisdiction to elicit a non-beginner member into the conversation if they wish. So you have my blessing to add the essay and debate its relevance, scorn it, kudo it etc... :)
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MindTheGap
243 posts
Feb 09, 2014
1:48 PM
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Ah yes, I could post it and you wouldn't be allowed to comment on our discussion about it! I'll be sure to invite you in.
I've been on that HarmonicaBoogie site you mentioned - blimey that's genius! You've done me a big service today with that one, so many thanks. I'll post details on the beginner's thread when I've worked it all out. But I've already uploaded an 'STrack'. Seems I've turned up on the last day of the jam - that tells you all you need to know about my timing :-)
Probably I'll find everyone knows about it 'cept for me.
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MTG
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SuperBee
1663 posts
Feb 09, 2014
2:03 PM
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I confess I don't really understand the point of the beginners thread/forum. I've often felt tempted to comment on something but have refrained.
I'm not at all sure I'm not a beginner by whatever definition is used to determine access to the thread, especially when I listen to MTG's posted sound clips.
It seems to me sometimes that it's a thread designed to stop people with knowledge from helping those trying to learn.
The more I think of it the less I understand. How is it different to the rest of the forum, apart from excluding those who don't see themselves as beginners? What exactly is the point? Is it to encourage people to contribute who otherwise may feel intimidated by their lack of knowledge or experience?
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Frank
3811 posts
Feb 09, 2014
2:39 PM
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Bee - its an area where there is more love going around for those less experienced and they are able to feel safer and less vulnerable than when sharing in the main forum. Like Adam states - we can get a bit cantankerous in the regular forum :)
Last Edited by Frank on Feb 09, 2014 2:44 PM
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MindTheGap
244 posts
Feb 09, 2014
2:44 PM
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Superbee - I see your what you mean. No, it's certainly not intended to stop people with knowledge from helping others to learn. But I can see how that might be an unintended outcome.
The idea came simply from the observation that although Adam's website is aimed at teaching people, including from scratch, that most of the discussion on the forum was between experienced players, amp or mic technicians, seasoned performers. It seemed like a good idea to see if there were learners who wanted to discuss things at the learner sort of level. If the forum software were more sophisticated then this could be done with separate subject areas, but as it isn't, a thread was the simplest mechanism.
Then you have the 'Beginner' label and that's a problem too. I'd prefer a different word, but that would always be ambiguous anyway.
People seem to have been posting to the main forum for questions, and chatting about learning stuff in the Beginner's. I thought that was quite good.
It's not meant to be divisive, so I'm glad you mentioned this. What do you think we should do?
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MTG
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Jim Rumbaugh
950 posts
Feb 09, 2014
2:56 PM
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I see SuperBee's point and I see Frank's point.
I also see some of the confusion over "what is a beginner"? I know I want to learn more. But I also understand the original concept of a place where a "seasoned" poster may not show respect for a beginner's question. For example, more than once I saw a reply to the question as, "search this forum, it has already been discussed.
My suggestion
Start a separate thread for beginners.
Put the limit on who should post by the number of posts they made. For example, the thread would be intended for people with under 500 posts. If you've made 500 posts, you're ready to run with the big boys. Also, it gives a clear mark if newbies wants to tell an oldtimer, "get out of here you old poster. This is for us new guys"
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
Last Edited by Jim Rumbaugh on Feb 09, 2014 2:57 PM
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DukeBerryman
145 posts
Feb 09, 2014
4:59 PM
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That would be cool when you hit 500 (boom, 1 more for me)
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laurent2015
591 posts
Feb 09, 2014
5:33 PM
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MTG, I meant the topic remains for example in first position in the list and "where are you from" in second position, and they don't move anymore (kind of highlight).
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SuperBee
1664 posts
Feb 09, 2014
5:39 PM
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I kind of get it. I understand what Frank said is part of the deal, and I understand the idea of chatting with other people very focused on learning issues...but it seems to risk throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Certainly the plethora of opinion put forth can be overwhelming, and there is occasionally some overly-blunt, ok, plain rude commentary. This stuff is often not helpful. But if you limit contributions to only those with little experience....!
Over time I guess you begin to learn about people on the forum; some have better information and more experience, some think they do.
Diggs rAised this once I recall, in a thread called 'who are you, really?". Some found it offensive I think.
Really it's not too hard to work out which poster's have particular insights. Some have great knowledge but are not so good at explaining. Or have different ways of explaining. Students have different approaches to understanding too :0)
Anyway, my take on the OP is that for it to be worth doing at all, you need a separate list. A single thread is kinda unwieldy. Or maybe you could mark "learners" posts with some equivalent to 'OT' to indicate the need to put your ego aside before posting on such threads.
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Jehosaphat
684 posts
Feb 09, 2014
6:44 PM
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Well imo eveything should be in together on the one board, we are all beginners in the sense that you can never in one lifetime know everything about our humble little instrument.(and/or the gear you might need to play it^)
I must say though having just spent an hour reading through 4 pages of the beginners thread what a
great bunch of people on it.
Polite,civil , self deprecating in a nice way and everything stays on topic.
We need you on the main board ;-)
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Frank
3812 posts
Feb 09, 2014
7:40 PM
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So true brother Jeho..."Beginner or Beyond" is relative to the group of people we are currently hanging with, and both terms have their place with all of us at one time or another...That said- The beginners thread has proven to be a great addition to the forum and the players who use that space are welcome in the regular forum too for adding their voices to the conversation... Its addition to the forum serves an important purpose that seems to be working well and like you mentioned those using it to learn and share are well intentioned classy individuals. So I feel the beginners thread is pertinent in every way - here to stay and will only get better... and to keep it a separate entity from us cantankerous basterds is wise:)
Last Edited by Frank on Feb 09, 2014 7:49 PM
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Shaganappi
84 posts
Feb 09, 2014
8:15 PM
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In relation to (and also beyond) the "beginner" question, I like the forum as is, but see that separate threads could better serve some of us, in particular a beginner or another special interest person, as sometimes stuff get buried. I often go weeks without viewing. Then to sift through the massive gearhead stuff, etc. frustrates me so often I don't.
Like everyone, I look to see what I am working on. Right now it is development of a new kind of rhythm tablature as well as dabbling in various stuff that analysis of new tab examples bring up. Few members appear interested in tab (more a beginner or musicologist sort of thing?) so I try hard (sometimes not too successfully) to avoid boring others.
With the number of pro's and near-pro's here, it can be somewhat intimidating although I have found members very helpful and friendly overall. Even the more taciturn of the members are generally helpful and respectful if one is a bit forgiving in reading some of their comments. I feel that most everyone is approachable.
Separate folders or up to date search thread capabilities or similar would be nice (optional views even better) but don't know how hard this is to do without a complete revamp.
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MindTheGap
245 posts
Feb 10, 2014
2:24 AM
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Honkin On Bobo - I forgot to say thank you for the comment!
And good to hear the other +ve comments. I think we have worked to create a good ethic on the thread.
It's tricky isn't it? We are a bit hamstrung by the technology - other forum software could keep the Beginners Thread alongside the main forum.
Laurent - If I understand you, you are talking about 'sticky threads', but I don't think this software has that. However they could put some hard links in above (see the Harmonica Forum How-To link).
Myself I like SuperBee's suggestion of marking posts with an agreed code in the subject line. This has the practical advantage that you could use the existing search engine to find everything that begins with that code. And then all these posts could live in the same forum. However when I ran that past Adam he was *strongly* against it as being divisive. And possibly everyone else would demand many other categories.
Jim's suggestion is also simple and practical. I wouldn't like it as a hard rule, more as a guideline. The problem with rules is that they are a blunt instrument and often have unintended consequences.
The reality is that not many beginners post on the main forum and, if you want them to, then you have to find a way to bring them in. I did post and read, and have learnt an enormous amount in a short time. I recognised early on that the level of expertise on here is generally at the high end (often at the world-class level) and there is a big leap for someone coming from Adam's tutorial videos to discussions at that level.
There is a bit of an issue around blunt-speaking, and I've read the archives so I know some of it, but I would say from my experience of forums on other subjects it's not a big deal here. Speaking for myself, it was the gap between my level and high level of experience that was the hurdle.
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MTG
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Feb 10, 2014 2:27 AM
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Kingley
3454 posts
Feb 10, 2014
2:46 AM
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I think option B is a pretty good idea. Simply because I suspect that often many beginners might feel too intimidated to ask some questions fearing they may be subject to some ridicule from more experienced players. As we all know they are no stupid questions, only questions you don't know the answer too. Sometimes though more experienced players can forget that at one time they didn't know the answer to a simple question.
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Taza
21 posts
Feb 10, 2014
5:18 AM
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I was way too intimidated to ask questions in the main forum for a long time. I relied on the harmonica reddit, even knowing it was mostly beginners who were reading/responding to my comments.
It's comforting to look through this thread and see how welcoming the pros are to beginning questions (and you like us!).
I like Option B but also leaving the forum open for experts to interject if they feel like it, trusting that they will not have any claws out when entering the beginners forum, and also leaving it open for forum posters to invite experts. (Beginners should definitely post direct questions in the main forum, but some things do kind of come up in conversation in the beginner's thread so it'd be nice if they could weigh in there as well.)
Thanks for starting and continuing with this project, MTG. It was much needed.
Last Edited by Taza on Feb 10, 2014 5:19 AM
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SmokeJS
221 posts
Feb 10, 2014
5:59 AM
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Getting the Beginner's posting to 4+ pages was, in my view, Inevitably too cumbersome for ease of participation. I would have guessed any initial reluctance to build a separate forum was mostly to see if there was sufficient interest to justify its existence. The current 4+ pages might seem to provide that justification though the limited number of main participants might indicate otherwise. While I've not felt any reluctance to post on the main page, and have also never felt anything but support from the more experienced players, I'd like to see option B implemented.
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Frank
3813 posts
Feb 10, 2014
6:37 AM
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For some newbies we may appear like this to them:)
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laurent2015
592 posts
Feb 10, 2014
8:50 AM
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No, Frank, everybody knows these are the Wallabies.
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isaacullah
2626 posts
Feb 10, 2014
10:43 AM
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Hey guys, I'm no longer a beginner (either on the harp or on this forum), but if you don't mind I'd like to weigh in on this topic. I joined MBH way back in 2008, just a few months after it was established. Although I'd "played harmonica" for a couple of years, I was really a rank beginner. I was attracted to this website via Kudzu's original video series, which essentially is why this forum was established (to move the more useful discussions his videos inspired from YouTube comments to this site). Because of this unique "attractor", all of MBH was essentially a "beginners" forum. That's what really brought a lot of us here. We could ask questions of eachother, post videos for progress, encourage eachother, offer critque, and really build a sense of community. It was ESSENTIAL for my growth as a harmonica player, and I am entirely confident that I wouldn't be 1/8th the player I am today without all of that.
Nothing remains the same, however, and MBH has greatly changed since then. The increased traffic on this forum brought on by Adam's early videos brought along with it more than just beginners. This became the "it" place for more and more pro's and advanced players too. Us young'ns have greatly benefited from that too, but you see, we were growing at the SAME TIME as MBH was growing, so we could keep pace with the more and more advanced stuff being discussed.
I can easily see how this forum has grown increasingly "unfriendly" towards beginners, and I'm not at all sure I would have gotten the same beginner experience if I were to have just joined in the last year or so than when I joined 6 years ago. In that sense, I see the need for a special place for beginners here to establish their own community ties with eachother. But it can't be such that it makes a splinter group, separate but parallell with the main forum. It should be dedicated for new players to get to know eachother, and to ask the common questions that beginners ask of eachother (critique me, what harp should I get, how do I bend). Advanced players should be welcome to answer if they want, but ONLY if they agree to answer simply and not pressure new players or make them feel dumb. However, beginning players should be encouraged to post in the main forum if and when they have a question that they think will have a wider appeal, or could be best answered by a higher level player.
There should be "cohorts" of new players inheriting the "beginner forum" for a while, and then moving "up" to the main forum after a time.
If that can be arranged, I think that there would be a lot more to offer here for players of all levels...
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isaacullah
2627 posts
Feb 10, 2014
10:45 AM
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ps, Taza, I think I know you from the harmonica subreddit! I'm "One Harp" on there...
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timeistight
1491 posts
Feb 10, 2014
12:46 PM
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'this forum has grown increasingly "unfriendly" towards beginners'
In what way?
'ask the common questions that beginners ask of eachother (critique me, what harp should I get, how do I bend).'
Answering any of those questions usefully disqualifies one's beginner status.
Last Edited by timeistight on Feb 10, 2014 12:57 PM
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isaacullah
2629 posts
Feb 10, 2014
12:55 PM
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timeistight, how long have you been a member? I know you've been here a while, but I don't think I remember your name from the first years of the forum? Is that correct? In any case, things have changed a lot over the years, and the main forum is no longer the newbie-friendly place it once was. We don't run them off with pitchforks or anything, but it's gotten to be a much more intimidating space than it originally was. On the bright side, we've got a lot more talent and experience to draw from. On the other hand, a newbie might feel that his/her more basic questions might not be answered, or might be conceived of as "too simple" for the main forum. Whether or not that's actually true is debatable, but I certainly see how a newbie would come to that impression.
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Honkin On Bobo
1178 posts
Feb 10, 2014
1:14 PM
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+1 to what issacullah wrote (all of it).
Last Edited by Honkin On Bobo on Feb 11, 2014 7:18 AM
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nacoran
7529 posts
Feb 10, 2014
1:39 PM
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Timeistight, I know, for example, that some regulars get a little touchy the 27th or 28th time someone asks what the best harp for starting out is, and occasionally when someone pulls up a really old thread on the subject someone else will complain that an old thread is being brought up, which sort of creates a catch 22.
As for the idea of separate forums, we do, for instance, have the Blues Talk forum, and I'll admit, even although the topic interests me, the level of traffic there, well, you just forget to check it after checking it again and again and not seeing new posts.
I know some forum software lets you filter by topic, but that's not an option here with our software and tech level. You can use work arounds like a special phrase people can search on, but even that can be clunky. I've used my thread organizer threads, but I'm not sure how much people use them. The idea was anyone could list good threads there in the appropriate categories and occasionally we'd organize that information, like GH's old forum archives. It really is too much information without the ability to consolidate threads or more manpower.
We tried a wiki page on blues harmonica, but the Wikipedia community turned out to be very turf-centric and we didn't seem to know the secret handshake. We got unceremoniously deleted. I've looked at self-hosting wiki software but quickly got in over my head.
Logistically, a beginners tag might be the easiest way to go.
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Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
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Billfish89
3 posts
Feb 10, 2014
1:58 PM
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I think option B is fine, but definitely keep it linked & open to all forum members.
The majority of today's forum topics seem fairly non-beginner. Being new to the forum, I've been thinking to post on the main forum, but I research my topic first and see that often it was discussed maybe 5-6 years ago. Perhaps basic questions might elicit "been there, done that" responses (cantankerosity aside). Perhaps the beginners forum will help new members, at more of the Beginner than Advanced end of the spectrum, to get aquainted with others in the same situation.
In certain industries its been said that every seven years or so we repeat what was done before as new people move into positions, technology evolves, and others have moved on. I hope that does not become the case here- rather, let's learn from the experienced as well as the new folks and share what we learn.
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harpdude61
1966 posts
Feb 10, 2014
6:46 PM
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Having a single beginners thread makes no sense. Too many topics on one thread.
Having a beginners only separate forum makes no sense. Advanced players won't be there to chime in.
Keep it like it was and ask your question. Mention you are a beginner if you like. One of us old geezers will chime in. Always have.
I don't like when a new member posts a question and someone responds for him to go to the archives. He knows he can do that. I consider it a rude response. You may not remember but for some of us it was very intimidating to post early on, much less start a thread. Be supportive.
More than likely, the same people won't respond to your question that responded to a similar question in the archives. Fresh opinions and ideas.
Products change. Ideas about techniques change. New hot players come on the scene. Something in the archives may not be the fresh response you are looking for.
What if we had forums for Beginners, Advanced beginners, Intermediates, Advanced Intermediates, Semi-pros, and Pros. Geez.
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bublnsqueak
22 posts
Feb 10, 2014
9:14 PM
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The point for beginners is to mix with the old sweats. Stuff rubs off.
The problem seems to be that the beginners are intimidated by the old sweats, and the old sweats are irritated by the beginners.
If we must have something for beginners (I would prefer not) then my vote would be for plan B as it would form a useful resource, attract those who like to help and beginners can gain a lot by helping others.
But I would like to retain the right to ask stupid questions in the main forum. Being banished to the beginner's forum could dent one's confidence.
I am only a beginner when it comes to harmonica. I'm pretty good at some stuff, play some respectable banjo and know a dickhead when I meet one :-)
Paul
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bublnsqueak
23 posts
Feb 10, 2014
9:26 PM
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I just noticed that Tristam88 posted the "beginner, what harp?" Question and, as I write, has 45 replies most of which seem well intentioned.
People like to help people. Don't fix what ain't broke.
With that in mind I would like to withdraw my vote for Plan B and propose a Plan D - do nothing.
Paul
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Taza
23 posts
Feb 11, 2014
6:46 AM
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Isaac: yes! I'm scandinavianfiddle in reddit- I admit I've posted some MBH duplicates there. :) also realized you're administering the Facebook group, which I'm also in.
Again, I am happy to see how welcoming the non-beginners are to our questions (yes- if the only responses my questions elicited were "look in the archives" I'd never post again), but I wouldn't feel comfortable discussing some things (like performance anxiety) in the main forum: maybe some beginners do, but I like having the option.
-Tayler
Last Edited by Taza on Feb 11, 2014 6:47 AM
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MindTheGap
251 posts
Feb 11, 2014
6:50 AM
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Lots of good thoughts here thank you. Isaacullah eloquently lays out the benefits he and others got from the forum in their early playing years and how it's not available as easily now. And it's more subtle than that beginners being made to feel unwelcome. This is an argument for doing something despite, as Smoke points out, the Beginner's thread not having big numbers of contributors. Quality vs quantity? :-)
Superbee and others voice the concern about been exclusive/divisive via rules or separate forums, and I think that's a very valid point.
The 'do nothing' has been tried already (i.e from the start to before the BT), and the result is not many beginners are posting. That's the plain fact.
Those who have read the beginner's thread will see it's a more conversational style, and less of either a Q/A or someone stating a fact or their strong opinion. Posting in the main forum you feel you have to have an interesting question or a nugget of news or information, and that's a barrier.
Having read all above, I have changed my thinking and propose this Option C, prompted by HarpDude61 and J'phat...
Option C
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Keep all the posts on the one forum. Anyone can post anywhere. But beginners can start the topic with 'Beginner' (or Novice whatever word) and that flags up not a rule but a guideline that - to put it simply - the old hands keep their claws in. The old hands can see it's something they might/might not be interested in.
Who is an old-hand? Well Jim's suggestion is a good guideline: no. of posts.
Adam was against the code idea, but that was together with the beginners-only-posting rule, so I'm hoping he would be happy with this.
Advantages: zero technical admin, easy and simple to understand, inclusive not divisive, self-regulating.
Disadvantages: Can't think of any, but I'm sure someone will come up with something. Fortunately, your number of posts is displayed :)
Thoughts?
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MTG
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isaacullah
2630 posts
Feb 11, 2014
7:10 AM
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Actually, I think that's a great idea. We already have some "thread codes" in use (e.g., "OT"), why not have a label for beginner threads too? If I saw a thread called, "BEGINNER: What harp should I buy?", then I might be less cantankerous in my answer since I KNOW it's a beginner. And if I don't want to get sucked into a beginner thread, it's clearly labeled so that I can avoid it if I want. At the same time, other beginners would know that this was a "safe" thread to voice their own thoughts and questions in, with out fear of seeming like the lone ignoramus (which is never true, but is certainly a legitimate fear!). So yeah, I'm in favor of that. It offers a safe beginner-friendly space without splintering the forum or making people feel excluded or segregated. This will all have to be "explained" somewhere permanent so that new members will figure it out, and older members will abide by it. But if we can all manage to figure out the "For Sale" threads, then I think we can figure this one out too! :)
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Billfish89
4 posts
Feb 11, 2014
5:09 PM
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Based on what I am reading I like option C as noted, and thanks MindTheGap for moderating the thread!
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MindTheGap
255 posts
Feb 13, 2014
1:57 AM
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Any further thoughts on this? Yes or No to Option C? If yes, what is the 'code'. Remember we'll need to run this by Adam, what with it being his site.
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MTG
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Feb 13, 2014 2:05 AM
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SuperBee
1671 posts
Feb 13, 2014
3:47 AM
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Or, since it doesn't actually require any changes and could just be a friendly agreement even if not enshrined in the creed...we could just do it and use the initials 'BT' to denote beginner topic...as the full words are quite long and there is a character limit to subject headings...
I gather there is no intention to limit contributions to such threads, just a flag to ask for consideration...much as a learner driver displays an L plate.
(Edited to correct one of the weirdest bits of behaviour I've seen from this software yet.. When I submitted my post it simultaneously logged me out and posted half my new post, blended with another bit of text I'd previously written and deleted.)
Last Edited by SuperBee on Feb 13, 2014 3:54 AM
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MindTheGap
257 posts
Feb 13, 2014
3:59 AM
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SuperBee - It's worth putting a bit of thought into the actual code though, coz then we get the 'search for beginner's posts' thing for free. I just checked that 'BGT' doesn't return any results currently so I suggest that.
I agree that Tristam88's post is an example of it working well. They are not all like that, but lets not get into that.
Mind you, I've seen how other drivers can respond to an L-plate. But lets not get into that either.
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MTG
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SuperBee
1673 posts
Feb 13, 2014
4:42 AM
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Tristam88 posted that back in 2008...
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SuperBee
1674 posts
Feb 13, 2014
4:47 AM
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Oh yeah fair enough, I know what BT is already used for. Duh! Use BGT then. Seems as good as anything.
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barbequebob
2470 posts
Feb 13, 2014
1:19 PM
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Now I'm quite a long ways from being a beginner but allow me to have a take on this subject.
A beginner's thread can be quite useful but input from only other beginners can short change you without realizing it and it is necessary to have some input from a much more experienced player in the mix to at least try to help get you over the hump.
Not everyone on this or any other forum have a totally bias against beginners AKA newbies, but on the other hand, there are going to be newer players who are either easily intimidated by someone with more experience or tend to take things far too personally (sometimes referred to as thin skinned) and taking everything personally can truly work against you without realizing it and it's a fact of life beyond just the harmonica alone.
There are always going to be some beginner oriented threads that repeat themselves like what's the best harp, and for for many experienced players, it can be annoying as it's been discussed to death but bottom line is that there are so many different players with different styles, approaches, you name it and so a so called what's the best is never going to be entirely universal no matter what.
A number of threads that a beginner may ask/start are often things many intermediate level players can also learn from when there are more experienced or pro players getting into the mix to try and help sort things out.
If you start a thread outside of a beginner's thread and you yourself are a beginner, I would strongly urge that you state that you are a beginner in the title of the thread so people know what's happening and why you're starting it and remember, all of us were beginners at one time and every pro when they started out often sounded like crap or another beginner too and I can remember going thru a number of things beginners are talking about and remember this: the ONLY dumb questions are the ones that you should've asked but didn't because you were too afraid to look dumb (again, remember, we all looked that way in the beginning).
Remember, honing your craft, whatever it may be, from playing harmonica, singing, woodworking, plumbing, computer programmer, whatever it may be, is always gonna be an ongoing thing and you are ALWAYS going to be learning. I've been at this, mainly pro, for 30+ years and there's ALWAYS stuff to learn and if you don't stop learning, you get musically senile, and along the way, there will ALWAYS be walls that you're gonna hit no matter what and that's all a big part of the learning curve and as frustrating as it is, it comes with the turf.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Barley Nectar
300 posts
Feb 13, 2014
4:34 PM
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I think all these speciality threads should have there own heading board. I'm talking Beginners, For sale, Wanted to buy, Up for trade/barter. This way you can find the board. Go to the Weber VST site and see how they do it. Nice setup IMO...BN
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MindTheGap
258 posts
Feb 14, 2014
12:34 AM
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Bob - Thank you for these thoughts. What I find particularly helpful hearing from you and other experienced hands is not just the straight Q/A stuff but understanding the journey you took from novice to where you are now. As you say, however good anyone is now, they must have been a beginner once.
So the idea of beginners flagging their threads with 'BGT' while letting everyone join in seems to me to help that along.
Just as a for-instance, I reckon I've saved a ton of money, time and frustration by listening to the advice here about amped-tone i.e. how much more your acoustic technique matters vs the equipment. Coming from a guitar background, I really didn't understand it to begin with but everyone was saying it so I took note.
BN - yes that would be great, but unfortunately the forum software for MBH doesn't support topic headings, sticky threads etc, so we are looking for an easy alternative which as SuperBee says, doesn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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MTG
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MindTheGap
260 posts
Feb 14, 2014
7:04 AM
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I checked with Adam and he is happy that we try the BGT idea.
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MTG
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dougharps
556 posts
Feb 14, 2014
8:56 AM
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I like the idea of the BGT threads.
I have read the beginners' thread from time to time and think that the conversational nature of it is a good idea for forum newcomers and harmonica novices. It helps people get their bearings on the forum.
It should be made clear from the start that beginners can post anywhere on the forum, without the BGT, if they wish.
I do agree that the forum has changed over time. I was intimidated at first by the level and intensity of discussion. At times some harsh opinions were stated. Some of those posters were removed from the forum.
There has always been a group of people who post here, but some of the names have changed over time. Some posters are absolute experts, and I read their posts with great interest. They don't respond to every question.
Some like myself have some useful knowledge in some areas. Actually, I think it is good for those of us who are not quite expert at all things harmonica to have to formulate answers for beginners, as it clarifies our thoughts. If we are off base in our advice, there are plenty of other knowledgeable players who will post and set us straight.
I think that recently the forum has been less nasty than in some times past, and the forum is more friendly to everyone.
BGT is a way to give some space to beginners discussing their journey among themselves with less chance of being intimidated by the more experienced forum members.
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Doug S.
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