rogonzab
467 posts
Jan 27, 2014
7:33 AM
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Hi,
I am going to build me a Lone Wolf SE 6L6 amplifier
(actually, not me, a local tube amp builder).
I am looking for the best speaker configuration. So far I had decided that I want 2 speakers, one of them would be a 12" Eminence Red, White and blue. The other speaker is still unknow.
Mi options are only these:
- Celestion Tube 10
- Jensen Ceramic c10q
- Jensen Ceramic c10r
- Jensen FALCON C10/40FA
- Jensen MOD 10-35
- Jensen MOD 10-50
- Jensen MOD 10-70
- Jensen Ceramic c8r
- Jensen Mod 8-20
Those speaker are the only one in my budget and that are available to me in my country, so no webers, or others eminences (Lil buddys) because of the price or because I cant get them.
These is going to be my amp for home playing and jam playing so keep that in mind.
What would you chose? a 12x10 or a 12x8? (Maybe a 2x10?) What speaker would you use?
Thxs a lot for your help!
Last Edited by rogonzab on Jan 28, 2014 6:09 AM
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HawkeyeKane
2280 posts
Jan 27, 2014
9:09 AM
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10 or an 8? Hmmm...my tastebuds would say an 8. But 12-10 is a sound and proven configuration. I'm assuming you plan to wire in parallel and use the 4 ohm load?
If you go with an 8, my vote is the MOD. If you go with a 10, go with the C10Q.
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Hawkeye Kane
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DukeBerryman
91 posts
Jan 27, 2014
10:28 AM
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I put Jensen MOD speakers in my 2x10. Love the 2x10 config. All I could afford, and sound smooth. I also put a 12" Jensen MOD in a separate speaker cab and that sounds wonderful. Good for the price.
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rogonzab
469 posts
Jan 28, 2014
6:08 AM
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HawkeyeKane, yes, I am going to wire the speakers in parallel to use the 4 ohms load.
(I edited the first post to add the 10" Jensen MOD)
DukeBerryman, a 2x10 sound great, but is the most expensive solution to me right know and my budget is small. (Unless I use 2 celestion tube 10, I can afford that)
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MJ
658 posts
Jan 28, 2014
9:00 AM
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If it were my project and I had the choices you have laid out, I would go with the Jensen C10Q. I have used it in on of my Kalamazoo 2's and a few other amps with satisfying results. I tries a MOD speaker once to save a couple of bucks and was disappointed. The MOD sits on a shelf, not good enough to either sell or use. I would choose the 10" over the 8" for some of the same reasons. I was once enamored with the 8" speaker until I realized that a 10 really gave a better sound than the 8 to my ear for harp. The 8 can often come off as being thin by comparison.
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HawkeyeKane
2283 posts
Jan 28, 2014
9:54 AM
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"I was once enamored with the 8" speaker until I realized that a 10 really gave a better sound than the 8 to my ear for harp. The 8 can often come off as being thin by comparison."
To each his own, but I still love 8's. One other thought I had on rogonzab's LW was a 1X12 2X8 setup. Kind of like the Meteor Mini Meat but with a 12". Wire a couple 4 ohm 8's in series, and wire those in parallel to the 12 for a 4 ohm load. Meh?
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Hawkeye Kane
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Barley Nectar
260 posts
Jan 28, 2014
11:47 AM
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Hmm, The SE is a low wattage design IIRC. I have not had much luck with multi speaker arangements with low watt amps. Build the cab semi open back and as large as practicle. I would definatly go with a 10" speaker. Have fun...BN
Last Edited by Barley Nectar on Jan 28, 2014 11:50 AM
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bloozefish
146 posts
Jan 28, 2014
12:29 PM
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The SE is low-wattage, but with the 6L6 it has much more kick than a Champ-type equivalent, I have a SE 6L6 Masco that just screams, and I'd love to try it with a pair of 10s.
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arnenym
259 posts
Jan 28, 2014
12:52 PM
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I agree with BN.
One ten or one 12 is enough for this amp. If you want more than one speaker is 2x8 a good combination for this amp.
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HawkeyeKane
2285 posts
Jan 28, 2014
12:54 PM
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arne beat me to it. I've been set back by other projects and obligations, but when I build my LW 3X6V6SE, I plan to do a 2X8 myself.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Rick Davis
2923 posts
Jan 28, 2014
7:23 PM
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None of the above. Build a 1x12 with the speaker you like: the Eminence RW&B. Low watt 1x12 amps sound goooood. I gigged a 10-watt 5F2H custom with 1x12 for a year or so. Really liked the tone.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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rogonzab
470 posts
Jan 29, 2014
4:45 AM
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Is there a problem whit small amps whit multiple speakers? maybe the transformers are too small to move too much speaker? I really dont know.
The reason of my "ideal" 2 speaker set up is because I want to be able to play both in my house and in my Jam.
So, whit two speaker (one big, one smaller) I have the choice to use the smaller one in my house, and the two in my jam just whit an extra amp-speaker cable.
The big high sensitivity 12" speaker is going to give me the volume and the other speaker (place on top of the 12") is going to give proyection and character (the eminence RW&B is a clean speaker, but heavy in the bass). That is my idea. Whit a 12x10 or 12x8 and a 10w amp I can compete whit the 30w amps that the rest of the band use, but I cant whit a single 10" (I try this setup before whit my laney cub 10, also a 10w 1x10 amp).
(I play in the streets, so I cant mic my amp whit a PA)
But, if I am going to hurt the amp using more than one speaker I will go whit the 12" (I think)
Last Edited by rogonzab on Jan 29, 2014 4:48 AM
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puri
136 posts
Jan 29, 2014
6:04 AM
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Don't wanna rain on your parade but I've been there, don't get carried away with the idea that 2 speakers can help you cut through the mix in the jam.. They just won't - especially with an SE amp but you could either build the line out or just mic it and go with one speaker that give you good tone. I'd go with a 10" Jensen Jet Tornado.
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Barley Nectar
261 posts
Jan 29, 2014
8:42 AM
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A 12" speaker is no louder than a 10" speaker per say. The difference in speaker volume per watt applied has to do with the efficiency of the speaker, not the size. 10" speakers project very well for harp. I do like 12's and have several 1x12 combos here. I just feel that 10's are better for low watt builds.
Another thing to consider is that the #1 comment I have read about the LW SE amp is that it is not very loud. I would be a shame to build an amp then realize that it will not live up to expectations. You want to play outdoors ,unmiced, you need POWER! I would suggest that you need two amps. One low watt and one that has 30W+. Amps are tools, if you work with tools you know that one tool will not do all jobs...BN
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HawkeyeKane
2287 posts
Jan 29, 2014
10:21 AM
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I think this thread is kind of starting to stray in different respects.
First, the OP stated in his first post that the LW is going to be his amp for home playing and jams, not his gig howitzer. He seems to be pretty aware of what the amp's capabilities are already, with the possible exception of it being able to compete with 30W amps at jams without PA support.
In terms of it being a low-watt amp, yes, by definition it is low-watt. 12W SE is a limited design in terms of output. But I think theres some subjectivity on where to draw the line between low and medium wattage.
Finally, I can think of several relatively low-watt, multiple speaker amps off the top of my head. The HG Double Trouble is push-pull at 18W, so could be considered by some to be medium wattage, but uses a pair of 8" speaks. And the revered Premier Twin-8 is SE, and uses a pair of 8's as well. I think Danelectro made one of their little Cadet models with twin 6's or 8's, and I know Lectrolab made the semi-rare S400 as 2X8. Then there's Vintage47's Chicago Blues Tone Triple based on the old Oahu 5-10W SE circuit with 1X10 & 2X8. Puri, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you build a SE Burness design with a pair of 8's? Does it get the job done at home? So what is it...some SE amps are good with multiple speaks and others aren't?
See...IMO, if it's a low watt amp, SE or push-pull, they can be good with multiple speakers IF the speaker size is kept small. I'd say a pair of 10's would be the MAX. The overall volume probably won't increase or decrease, depending on how the speakers are wired and what load they're ran on. But the tonality of the amp would almost certainly be different than a single speaker configuration. Like if rogonzab went the 12-8 route, the 12 would probably deliver more of the lows and mids, and the 8 would deliver more pronounced highs.
So in a nutshell...no, the amp won't benefit from a multi-speaker configuration in the area of volume. But it could most certainly have some tonal benefits from it.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on Jan 29, 2014 11:08 AM
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SuperBee
1646 posts
Jan 29, 2014
10:58 AM
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I use a 2x8" cab with a 5watt epi head. The speakers are relatively inefficient. It's noticeable that there is a drop in volume when I plug this cab into any combo amp I match it with, relative to the speaker in the combo. But guess what? I can turn the volume knob up!
The feedback threshold of the amp, in terms of sound pressure, remains very similar if not exactly the same.
It's not louder, but it is disturbing more air than a single speaker does. Does it carry further or broader? Seems likely it does, but I don't know.
Double trouble I think was available with some different formats. 2x8" was standard but I think 8 + 10 could be had and maybe 8 + 12 but I could be making that up.
I've run 5 watts into 4x12 and 4x10. I really think that does have an effect but it's not like suddenly it's a bassman.
An 8" won't project more than a 12". It will have different tonal quality and may 'cut'...it won't have as much bottom.
I've got a lot of 8"s....I like em well enough, but if I had my druthers, I'd go with 10"s. Probably a single 10 or 12 would do your job as well as a pair of 8s. You can go crazy and build a 4 or 6 x 8" cab...
But you gotta carry it too, right?
You got what, 10w? That can definitely run a couple of speakers. You might get closest to your aim by having a lot of separation. I.E. 2 separate cabs. You could sit one behind you and one out to the side...project your sound from more than one place...
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HawkeyeKane
2291 posts
Jan 30, 2014
8:32 AM
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"You got what, 10w? That can definitely run a couple of speakers. You might get closest to your aim by having a lot of separation. I.E. 2 separate cabs. You could sit one behind you and one out to the side...project your sound from more than one place..."
That's not a bad idea either. It would also give you the option of using other speaker cabs you might have as extensions.
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Hawkeye Kane
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rogonzab
472 posts
Feb 25, 2014
6:38 AM
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Update:
I decided the 2x10 because is a more classic approach, and that is the idea behind building that amp.
But, with a deep pain in my soul, I am not going to do it right now. My girlfriends quit her job, son I am the only one whit a job in our house, so it would be irresponsible to spend a month salary in an amp. The real downside is that, in order to raise the money I sold my SF fender Champ, and now I don't have any amp. I hope that in a near future I can save enough to build this amp, it would be a dream to have a "harmonica amp"
Txs a lot to all of you, I know this thread is going to be helpful for many player.
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mrdon46
87 posts
Feb 25, 2014
10:39 PM
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I'd second what Rick, Arnenym and a few others said--a single speaker might be best in this amp. I put an Emi Cannabis Rex in mine and it sounds great, in a smaller package than what you'd end up with 2 speakers.
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SuperBee
1709 posts
Feb 26, 2014
3:34 AM
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Rogonzab, I am sorry to hear you had to sell the Champ. I know how much joy you had when you obtained it. I hope things get better for you soon!
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rogonzab
579 posts
Aug 12, 2014
9:59 AM
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Update:
I am in the final stage of my Lone Wolf 6l6SE project (it was put on hold for money issues a few months ago) I have the tubes, the speakers, and the guy who is going to build it (and the money, of course).
I am going for the 2x10, in a diagonal approach.
Which speaker configuration would you choose whit a Jensen C10q or a Eminence 1028k
(these are the best speaker available to me right now, and I found it surpisliy cheap)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67399370/210options.JPG
Mixing Ceramic and alnicos speakers are tempting, but an all alnico tone is also tempting.
Any thoughts?
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SuperBee
2158 posts
Aug 13, 2014
5:15 PM
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My only thought is to try them. It'll sound great whichever way you go, but you may prefer one over another. Flip a coin, choose.
What happens next is that you wonder how it would be if you'd chosen differently, so you spend more money to find out.
After you've been along that path a few times you'll recognise that it's a good way to accumulate lots of stuff you dont use anymore while dropping a lot of money. But you'll gain a lot of knowledge
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Barley Nectar
485 posts
Aug 13, 2014
10:53 PM
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LOL, you got it Supe...BN
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rogonzab
582 posts
Aug 14, 2014
4:23 PM
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LOL SB, you are right, this never end!
but is not about the end, is about the learning experience and the fun.
Thxs!
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SmokeJS
284 posts
Aug 16, 2014
5:17 AM
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I also have an amp rebuilt to be a 6L6SE. The work was done by jimr. Sounds great but like you still haven't found the speaker for it. I have an older Epiphone cabinet with an ancient, unbranded, little to identify it, 12 inch speaker loaded in it. Sounds pretty good but I'm planning to build a cabinet just for this amp and haven't yet decided on a speaker or size. Fairly sure it will be a single speaker. Leaning towards a Cannabis Rex but might drop down to a Lil' Buddy. Both will provide exceptional volume for their size.
PS: Anyone considering the Bantam Bass amp jimr has for sale in Iowa should, based on my experience buying from jimr, give it serious consideration. He did great work and delivered all promised.
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