Martin
606 posts
Jan 24, 2014
1:04 PM
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Is there a simple way to explain what "compression" does to the amplified harmonica tone?
Perhaps even provide examples, compressed and un-compressed.
I´m trying to understand this effect in general, and then in Audacity in particular, but of course I fail.
As a spin-off to a conversation with Harp Ninja (or one of the Ninjas here, there may be a couple of them -- but I think this one also goes undercover as "Mike") who did NOT like the compressed harmonica tone, I´m beginning to suspect that compression could be the thing for me ("clean w/ compression").
I recently recorded some stuff and for one tune went directly into the console -- told sound guy to maximize bass etc --, but still thought it sounded rather thin and wimpy.
Then on another tune I decided to first go through my parametric EQ, amplified in the bottom range, and it sounded a little better. A little.
Then I adjusted the "level" button, just a teeny weeny bit north of 12 o´clock, and it suddenly got interesting.
Was that "compression" that I added?
PS If I sound ignorant ... Well.
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Frank
3745 posts
Jan 24, 2014
1:41 PM
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I'm sure this won't help - can't say I did'nt try ")
Beginner question about effects:Compressor
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Moon Cat
332 posts
Jan 24, 2014
2:17 PM
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This is my experience: Compression evens out the differences in tone and timbre of notes. From something as obvious as high notes being shrill and low notes being buried it provides a happier medium. The big thing for me is a bit more subtle: Ever notice how a two draw bend (Whole Step) has a louder volume and sticks out more? Compression reduces that effect and flattens higher and lower frequencies making the over all playing sound more linear, equal and even. The same deal can happen on any bend or especially on over blows the nature of the bend.overblow is creating different frequencies than a regular blow or draw note…Also blow and draw notes have different sounds too (note the differences between a 2 draw and three blow), Compression disguises this issue. some players use the problem to great effect and exploit it's differences which of course is awesome too! I like to set my compressor (lone wolf) so it is barely audible. I call the "Is it on" level" No youtube video could really audibly broad cast the difference in this subtle and illusive effect. It is something you can hear in person and mostly feel in your own playing. When you compress a signal you will most likely want to turn the volume up and possibly re-tweak whatever tone controls you are using. I could go on and on and on.
Martin, I'm not sure if you accidentally got compression while tweaking but that does happen a lot….a smaller amp is naturally compressing, bullet mics also naturally compress a bit, Many, Many pedals inadvertently add compression and even some cable/chord choices can contribute. Engineers almost always compress individual tracks somewhat or a lot before putting them in the final mix and this experience is what led me to using outboard/pedal type compression for the first time (1998). Compressing an entire album is at least 20% of the mastering process (deciding what kind, where and how much).
It wasn't until last year that Randal Landy and I decided to make the first harmonica specific optical compressor we named the Flat Cat and is my only signature pedal. I relized from the start that this pedal would be a tough sell and a hard to understand one at that but chose to continue because I love the effect. I also find a bit of compression gives each note it's own equal value so WHEN playing fast each note becomes more specific, clear and audible rather than a windy blur… Almost every video of me ever recorded amplified was using compression…It was the first pedal I ever used even before delay and to this day remains my favorite.
-Jason Ricci
Last Edited by Moon Cat on Jan 24, 2014 2:22 PM
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rainman
124 posts
Jan 24, 2014
2:17 PM
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I doubt that adjusting the level dial did anything but added a little gain. I have an Art Pro Tube Pre amp with compressor and equalizer that works great to record with as well as playing live. Maybe a simple way to explain it would be to say it tidy's up the sound by making adjustments to the volume either up or down of a passage of notes to make them all sound like they are the same or similar volume. This can change and depends on the amount of compression used. When playing fast I might hit a note softer than I intended and maybe another I hit a bit harder than need. The properly adjusted compressor will even those all out and make them all the same volume. When recording this allows you to increase the overall input volume by bringing down the louder notes and also increasing the quieter notes. This will improve the quality of the recording considerably.
Last Edited by rainman on Jan 24, 2014 2:22 PM
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Rick Davis
2907 posts
Jan 24, 2014
7:01 PM
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As Jason wrote, there are lots of ways to get compression. An effect pedal is one way, but to my ear they are often overused which makes the harp sound kind of like a kazoo. A little goes a long way. I think compression pedals sound best when the effect is really subtle. (I feel the same about most pedals.)
A bullet mic will compress your sound, and so will some tube amps. "Sag" is compression. An alnico speaker will usually compress more than a ceramic speaker.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Greg Heumann
2571 posts
Jan 24, 2014
7:43 PM
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Here are some examples.
AlNiCo speakers sound different from ceramic magnet speakers, because AlNiCo magnetic have the following property - in the presence of a strong electromagnetic field (i.e., from the speaker's voice coil), the permanent magnet's field begins to collapse. That means it responds normally for a weak signal, but when the signal gets too strong it no longer responds in a linear fashion - its field is weaker, the speaker cone moves less far. This is a form of compression. The loud parts aren't as loud as they would be with a ceramic magnet speaker.
Tubes - when overdriven, can no longer reproduce the tops and bottoms of the sine wave input - so the tops and bottoms of those waves get "clipped". Of course when this happens the result is distortion, but also the overall output is lower, relative to the input, as when the tube was responding in its non-clipping range. This too is a form of "compression".
Microphone elements do it too - output (electrical signal) responds linearly to input (sound pressure waves) until the sound is too loud - the output signal does not continue to climb, and the wave form reflects the input signal less accurately. Result? Distortion, and compression.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
Last Edited by Greg Heumann on Jan 24, 2014 7:44 PM
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Stevelegh
915 posts
Jan 25, 2014
1:12 AM
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Although this vid features a guitar, its the Jim Dunlop ad for the MXR Dyna Comp compressor.
The settings are exaggerated somewhat, but I think it's as good an idea as you're going to get from a YouTube vid. As Jason says, this is one effect that isn't easy to show on a vid, but at 1:35, the guy uses a slide which really shows how the notes are evened out.
Last Edited by Stevelegh on Jan 25, 2014 3:17 AM
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Moon Cat
335 posts
Jan 25, 2014
9:24 AM
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The percussive attack element was also something we all kinda failed to mention the right way that the dynacomp vid did a good job of showing…Thanks for that vid Steve.
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Stevelegh
916 posts
Jan 25, 2014
10:33 AM
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De nada....
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kudzurunner
4515 posts
Jan 25, 2014
11:08 AM
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At extreme compression, you get the sort of sound Cole Fonseca gets here. Almost no dynamic range, just one fuzzed volume:
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Moon Cat
336 posts
Jan 25, 2014
1:54 PM
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yeah thats a little much, sonically, aesthetically and beyond! Ha!!!
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DukeBerryman
88 posts
Jan 26, 2014
9:29 PM
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I got rid of my pre-amp and I'm replacing it with a Lone Wolf Flat Cat. I've used a compression pedal in the past and it's nice because I only play single note and I don't have to blow so hard on the low notes.
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boris_plotnikov
921 posts
Jan 27, 2014
12:36 AM
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For my ears amped overdriven tone is already enough compressed because overdriven amp compress tone too. Anyway, I didn't try FlatCat, possible I'll change my thoughts.
Otherwise when mixing clean acoustic harmonica I always use software compressors.
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Excuse my bad English.
My videos.
Last Edited by boris_plotnikov on Jan 27, 2014 12:37 AM
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DukeBerryman
89 posts
Jan 27, 2014
5:45 AM
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@Boris - I want to sound like you! I like your tone and Billy Branch's sound
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HarpNinja
3718 posts
Jan 27, 2014
7:32 AM
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I run a Flat Cat in my chain, but have recently moved it to in front of my Tech 21 Blonde. I do not like effects to cut highs. Where you have the compressor in the chain impacts what it will do.
So, I set my to be real transparent, but I spend a lot of time on the high end of the harp, and I don't always cup with both hands, so it is a nice thing to have on board.
Some pedals, like the Lone Wolf Delay will eat some highs and make things too dark for my taste.
I do not like overly compressed tones that are very un-dynamic, too distorted, or very dark. A lot of blues players set their rigs to be very compressed to where they sound very muddy. I like some clarity and cut.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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