Ron
1 post
Dec 15, 2013
3:47 PM
|
Picked up an Epiphone valve jr 5w all tube. would like to put some on it like a master volume control, tone knob ect... lone wolf wants me to ship it to them. I just don't want to ship it anywhere. looked on you tube for some mods just don't know what ones to do. also im looking at 2 pedals both from the lone wolf co. The "Harp Shield" and "Harp Attack." So can someone with experience please help. I am at an intermediate playing level and just now getting into amplification.
thx
ron
|
Barley Nectar
215 posts
Dec 15, 2013
6:13 PM
|
How do
I get that fat sound?
Well Ron, it's called practice! There is no amp/ mod that will give you the tone you seek. It's all in you body. Learn to use/cup your mic properly. Open your throut and make your chest a resonate chamber. Leave the amp alone and just play it. Start studying the web for info on amps, mics, technique, music theory. so on. It's a long row, so, start hoeing...BN
|
jbone
1444 posts
Dec 15, 2013
8:00 PM
|
Well, one thing. Put your mic on a stand if possible, and get the harp deep in your mouth, and hog up on the mic. But definitely make sure you sound the best you can acoustically.
I can't speak about the VJr really since i never owned one, but have blown through one and it sounded good to me. I do have a LW harp delay and love it. Fats up the tone some. Luck and hard work!
----------
http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
|
SuperBee
1581 posts
Dec 15, 2013
9:50 PM
|
Yeah, but the epi can be improved a fair bit.
It's a while since I played a stock one. I have one on the road to me at the moment, so I guess I'll remember soon enough.
I think I remember it was prone to early feedback. I put a 12au7 in it which improved it somewhat. I remember feeling surprised because that tube had been disappointing in every other preamp I'd tried.
I installed alnicomagnet mods in mine. I dig it.
The LW mod is well regarded though, and it's all there on the site, photos, schematics, description.
Couple of mistakes in the schem, but they are pretty obvious when you are looking and reading if you study it all and know a little bit about the stock layout.
There is a LOT written about the amp . Not a bad unit to study on for a while imho
----------
JellyShakersFacebookPage
JellyShakersTipJar
|
Kingley
3315 posts
Dec 15, 2013
10:15 PM
|
Barley Nectar speaks the truth. Acoustic tone and cupping technique are the single most important things. In the right hands an Epi Valve Jr sounds great. I'd advise living with any amp and making sure your techniques are right before looking into modifying it.
|
SuperBee
1582 posts
Dec 16, 2013
2:52 AM
|
Well for sure acoustic tone and all that.
And an appropriate mic.
But that amp is a well known unit with well known problems and there are tried and true approaches to improving it which result in a much better harp amp.
I'm a beginner, no expert, but I've modded 2 of these and I have to say IMHO they are far superior to the stock amp.
Which version do you have Ron?
Is it a head or combo?
Does it have an eminence Lady Luck speaker and 3 output jacks (4, 8 and 16ohm) or just a single 4 ohm jack?
Does it hum like a beehive?
What is the serial number?
What sort of mic are you using?
Arne may be the most experience modder of these amps who contributes here.
Over.
----------
JellyShakersFacebookPage
JellyShakersTipJar
Last Edited by SuperBee on Dec 16, 2013 4:05 AM
|
isaacullah
2585 posts
Dec 16, 2013
1:39 PM
|
I did the lone wolf mods to it myself, and added a master volume control. Wasn't hard, and they've got a full phot essay of it on the lone wolf site. made a HUUUUGE difference in the tone. The amp kicks ass after those mods.
----------
YouTube! Soundcloud!
|
HawkeyeKane
2215 posts
Dec 16, 2013
2:10 PM
|
Does anyone know if the BitMo digital reverb mod for the EVJ would be compatible with the LW mods?
----------
Hawkeye Kane
|
colman
280 posts
Dec 16, 2013
3:24 PM
|
That fat sound has been called HONK,people just about fight for it saying it `s out of the amp.but it`s out of your mouth.when you been playing long enough you`ll find overtones along with the note you hit ,it fattens up the tone,also you hit a note and let the note next to it bleed in,this fattens it up too.and dynamics create a fatter sound this all comes together with nuance and you be doinittoit !!!
|
Rick Davis
2781 posts
Dec 16, 2013
3:42 PM
|
Geez, take it easy, guys! This is Ron's first post. He asks about getting "fat" tone from an Epi Valve Jr and you guys all make the assumption he is a beginner with no skills.
Hey, he said he is an intermediate level player. That tells me he knows a thing or two about tone. When he asks about fat tone I know what he means. Some amps have more girth in their tone than others. His question is perfectly legitimate.
Unfortunately, I don't have the answer. I've never owned or tinkered with a Valve Jr amp, but I've played them and I don't like the tone, either. They have that EL84 sound, a trebly chime in the distortion that guitar players like.
I think alnicomagnet on eBay offers circuit mod kits for the amp. Ron, that might be the way to go if you are handy with a soldering iron.
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Dec 16, 2013 3:42 PM
|
SuperBee
1585 posts
Dec 16, 2013
7:59 PM
|
Oh yeah Ron, on the pedals question:
The harp shield may be a good idea but I don't reckon you need the harp attack for use with your amp unless your gonna be playing very quietly...in which case I doubt you'll need the harp shield. The LW delay or reverb might be nice though, and maybe a Tone+
I've been using LW delay for years and it still sounds good to me when I'm looking for that sound.
If you can only splurge on two pedals I reckon the tone+ and either the delay or reverb would be the go with your amp.
1 thing I've become aware of with these amps is they run the EL84 hot. I don't know how much of an issue it is really but the more you use the amp the more likely it is to become a problem. There is no fuse on the secondary side of the PT . Seems to be potential to take out a PT along with the output tube in some circumstances.
Actually I'm keen to hear from people who have been using the amp a long time and put enough hours on it to comment on tube life.
----------
|
TheATL
73 posts
Dec 16, 2013
9:41 PM
|
Hi Ron,
As others have said, the LW mods are straight forward and give good results. I did the mods and have been very happy. I also went for a Weber alnico speaker. Have been very happy with the tone after the mods, and the amp fits great in a suitcase for air travel. Yesterday I had a chance to play my junior and then play a stock Epiphone Valve with the 10" speaker (not the junior). Both amps sounded similar if you did not hit them too hard, but when you drive the mic hard, my junior really responded to the breakup, whereas the stock valve just reproduced the mic breakup. When I ran the volume up, the alnico also distorted, which did not happen with the stock amp. And finally, the LW mods really help get the feedback issues under control. You can have the mic within a few feet of my junior without any problem, but the stock amp was a handful. You really had to watch your mic volume control and where you were in relation to the speaker.
I really like the junior. The cabinet is super- solid, and the quality of the point-to-point wiring on my amp is top notch.
Don't know if you are comfortable doing the mods yourself or not. If not, then pedals are another option, but they won't help with feedback (except for a feedback box, of course). But they are better than nothing. Hope this helps.
Brad
|
stokeblues
63 posts
Dec 16, 2013
11:34 PM
|
hiya,i love the EVJ,done 2 gigs in a medium size pub with it ,not miked up as well and it was plenty loud enough with some left in as well but we've been down that road! Did the valve swaps which initially i thought sounded good specially at low level but then i just put the stock valve back because i was getting pretty much the same sound before.I use the LW Delay ,reverb and OCTAVE with it and don't have the blend up hardly any on the octave as i use it more as a boost on the solo's.I haven't really had it long enough or played it hard enough to comment on any probs Mr Bee but not being electrical i wouldn't notice till smoke came out,what mic are you using with it?
|
Baker
357 posts
Dec 17, 2013
1:55 AM
|
I've had an EPV Jr for a while, although I don't really play amplified very much, if at all these days. I bought it to try out amped playing. I've used it with a SM57 and also one of Greg's wooden body bullet mics.
I have not done any mods to it except for changing out the pre-amp tube as I was have real issues with feedback. For me I can get a nice fat sound as it is but the volume has to be turned up quite high, from about 12'oclock and upwards. This can cause problems with feedback if you're in a small room and also problems with the neighbours.
I also own a Harp Attack pedal from LW. I bought it as an easy to carry alternative for jams etc. I have tried it out through the EVJ. For me it's useful for getting break up at lower volumes, however the combination of amp and pedal produces to much of a "distorted" sound – More like the thing a rck or metal guitar player might be after – that's not really my thing, but if it's yours then that could be a way to go.
Like I said I don't play too much amplified so I haven't spent a lot of time playing around so it may be entirely possible to use this pedal and amp to get a nicer more rounded tone.
Last Edited by Baker on Dec 17, 2013 1:57 AM
|
Ron
2 posts
Dec 19, 2013
3:32 PM
|
wow, first of all thank you all for the feedback lol. thank you rick for the backing. I do play acoustically and now im at the level to jam with others in a loud bar. that's why I need to amp it up. Thank you Super Bee. serial# 00605082240389 just the head not a combo. 4,8,16 ohm speaker outputs, mic is a horner blues blaster for now and yes it does sound like a beehive.THANK YOU ALL I don't feel so alone now. I live in a small town called Kernville, ca. well I have to drive 5 miles to get to Kernville lol. On the first Saturday of the month the kern river blues society gets together and plays at a saloon in town. so as you can tell not much in the way of help in the high country so again I thank you all for the input
ron
|
SuperBee
1590 posts
Dec 19, 2013
8:39 PM
|
G'day Ron. Good to know you have the head version. With that serial number I think it's possibly a mk3, which is the best of the stock versions. Shouldn't be noisy at idle, but maybe you mean the sound of the amp in active use.
I think it's fine to spend time with the stock amp learning to get the best from it, or trying a lower gain preamp tube, or different brand of el84. But if you're inclined to work on it I'd suggest read up Randy's essay on the lone wolf site, and search on the forum there. If you want to hear an example of my alnicomagnet-modded amp, it's at:
Sue'sVJ
----------
JellyShakersFacebookPage
JellyShakersTipJar
|
Hondo
264 posts
Dec 20, 2013
8:09 AM
|
How do the mods, LW or AlMag. differ from the LW Harp Tone, which gives me M. Vol., bass and treble ?
|
stokeblues
64 posts
Dec 20, 2013
10:24 AM
|
iv'e got a tone+ and haven't tried it EVJ yet,am i missing a trick here?,whot's going on with Lone Wolfs forum?
|
TheATL
74 posts
Dec 20, 2013
12:56 PM
|
@Hondo
The LW mods change the way the audio impacts the transfer characteristics of the tubes themselves. The distortion is actually coming from the tubes. Pedals simulate that affect. Some people say that the simulated effect does not sound as good as tubes that are actually driven into distortion
|
SuperBee
1592 posts
Dec 20, 2013
1:42 PM
|
LW mods address gain, tone, add a treble cut control, add a line out, give an option for a second input. alnicomagnet addresses gain, tone, adds a treble cut control, standby, fuse, line out. Additionally the alnicomagnet mod looks at the engineering specs of the power tube and alters some resistor values to ensure the plate dissipation stays below 12 watts.
For mk1 units, alnicomagnet also addresses some design flaws and converts the noisy AC heaters to DC.
When I described the differences in the two approaches to Arne (with details of parts values and circuit changes), he summarised it as the LW is a Kalamazooish mod, the alnicomagnet is a fenderish mod.
How it differs to an eq pedal? I guess you'd have to compare side by side. I've done an alnicomagnet blues harp mod, and I've heard a stock amp or 2, and I've built a new board running a 6v6, so I know how all those sound, but I haven't plugged a tone+ into a stock amp or heard a LW modded amp live.
I expect that pedal will make an improvement to the sound and versatility of the stock amp. It costs more than modifying the amp, but it can be used with more than 1 amp so maybe a winner on cost:benefit front depending on one's circumstance.
Last time I looked, Stokeblues, the LW forum was back up. It was down for most of the week though.
----------
JellyShakersFacebookPage
JellyShakersTipJar
Last Edited by SuperBee on Dec 20, 2013 2:43 PM
|
arnenym
246 posts
Dec 20, 2013
7:30 PM
|
Hi Ron.
I've modded around 12-15 of VJR for harp. That's true.
I agree with superbee in what he writes above.
If you gonna take the pedal route instead of modding i think a Harp break is better on this amp than a Harp attack. Combine with a Lo-MU tube 12AY7 or 12AU7.
This will give you a good fat bottom and a nice breakup.
BTW. LW harp forum had a massive spam and hacker attack This is solved and we're back in business again.
Last Edited by arnenym on Dec 20, 2013 7:31 PM
|
Kingley
3321 posts
Dec 20, 2013
10:33 PM
|
"Geez, take it easy, guys! This is Ron's first post. He asks about getting "fat" tone from an Epi Valve Jr and you guys all make the assumption he is a beginner with no skills. "
Geez Rick calm down! lol
I'd always advise anyone regardless of their ability to live with an amp for a while before making any mods, apart from maybe a preamp valve swap in certain amps. It just makes common sense to know the foibles of an amp before making adjustments to it's circuitry. Simply because no two amps (even ones of the same model) are perfectly identical or react the same tonally.
Ron clearly stated "I am at an intermediate playing level and just now getting into amplification." So to mention things like cupping techniques and acoustic tone would seem like a common sense suggestion. Do you disagree with that thinking Rick? If so please explain why you think it's floored.
Last Edited by Kingley on Dec 20, 2013 10:36 PM
|
stokeblues
65 posts
Dec 21, 2013
10:15 AM
|
Hiya Ron,iv'e only had my EVJ about 3 months and asked about mods on the LW forum,click on harp amps and about 18 posts down are the answers your looking for. IMO you can get a fat tone with stock amp and a decent mic,i use the pe54 and then the octave to fatten it of which it only really needs at low volume ,(thats where the lower gain valve swap would do the same)but crank it up and it growls! Then i have the delay and reverb runnng all the time,of which i consider that this amp reacts very well to the reverb. I own a number of amps as most of us do but for me i just love this amp,its size ,its weight,its sound ,its cost! I use the attack in the pa with another band i play with but to be honest its because they think their in Shay fooking stadium or something!
|
Ron
3 posts
Dec 22, 2013
11:22 AM
|
thank guys, a lot of good info out there. super you are correct I was not clear. buzz when volume is around 12oclock and up. I just love to tinker with electronics. as for now going to resist and play a stock amp for awhile and put a pedal or two in front of it. I just want to drive the tubes at low volume. not worried about neighbors (don't have any). Ialso play an axe through a marshall avt150 half stack so I like it loud. I think im moving more towards my blues harp then blues guitar. randy when I do get around to modding this amp (and I will) I will check out the lw web sight.
|
