Slimharp
66 posts
Dec 11, 2013
10:13 AM
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Need some expert input here. I have the opportunity ? to buy a 60 Concert amp 4-10 ( pinkish ) tolex. Cab and face plate is in very good condition. It has a silver grill cloth ?, one non stock speaker, and the tremelo does not work. I would imagine it will need some caps replaced. I have played it and it seems to function well other than the tremelo. It does not break up early. Question 1. Could this make a good harp amp ? Question 2. Is it worth $ 1800.00 ?
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HawkeyeKane
2206 posts
Dec 11, 2013
10:20 AM
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That'd be a brown Concert. With the alterations and deficiencies you're describing, $1800 might be a little high, but not unreasonable IMHO. And yes, brown Concerts have a good harp reputation.
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Hawkeye Kane
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1847
1385 posts
Dec 11, 2013
11:11 AM
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i think rod and big bad bill both, at one point used a 1960 concert. if i remember
a few of them were produced in white tolex.
in addition to the brown.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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barbequebob
2399 posts
Dec 11, 2013
11:23 AM
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I've played thru one of those and they're awesome. In fact, when I started, in no particular order, these amps, along with the 4-10 Bassman, Super Reverb, and Twin Reverb were the holy grail for most harp players. However, the tone controls work differently than most other Fender amps because where those other amps have passive tone controls (meaning when the controls are all the way up, that's the flat setting from the factory, and the controls ONLY cut and don't actualluy boost anything), the controls works more like the way SS amps and PA's work where either side of 1/2 way actually do boost and cut for real and before setting those controls up, you'd set everything at 1/2 way and work from there.
The amp obviously has had some work done on it ad the tolex and the grille cloth are clearly not stock at all, and there may have been some very radical alterations done on it most likely by an amp tech who may possibly be clueless about how vintage amps work and what does and what doesn't belong there.
If you buy it, make DAMNED SURE you bring it to an amp tech that really knows their stuff about vintage amps because those guys are gonna be really picky about what goes in there and will make sure it uses the right stuff that belongs there and the correct tubes are also there as even the slightest bit of difference in what parts have been used can alter the amp's sound often quite dramatically an I know of musicians who've not paid attention tot that and have had really bad results from it. A good vintage amp tech will probably be more expensive, but trust me, it's well worth it and my regular amp is a real '59 Bassman and I'm real picky about who I ever use to work on it.
Vintage amp prices have gotten crazy in the last 25 years and it wouldn't surprise me to find one of those amps that have all the right stuff in it go for well of $5000 a pop, as I know real '59 Bassmans that are in top notch condition with all the right stuff in it can go over $8000-12,000 a pop.
If memory serves me correct, the original speakers should be Jensen C10Q's or C10R's, but a real rarity is one Rod Piazza owns that actually had P10Q's in them as stock.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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jukelemon
46 posts
Dec 11, 2013
11:42 AM
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Hi. It should not be pink it should be brown and the grill cloth should not be silver it should be wheat.
They are very nice amps for both guitar and harp. Not common either.
However, 1800 is a bit much for the condition it is in i.e. it will need work and you are missing a speaker.
If you buy it, you need to get one of the original oxfords (if I recall correctly) and make it whole. They were part of the magic of that year/model.
1500 would be fair if the cosmetics are spot on.
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Littoral
1011 posts
Dec 11, 2013
11:55 AM
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Pink is correct. I wouldn't necessarily call it pink but it is a lighter brown with a pinkish hue to it. Mine is Jan. 60 and it's a truly wonderful thing. 1800 is reasonable but I wouldn't buy it unless I had a lot of extra $ to throw around. If you want an amp to gig with you'll save a lot of time, $ and trouble buying something new. Lots of great choices out there.
Last Edited by Littoral on Dec 11, 2013 11:56 AM
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LSC
553 posts
Dec 11, 2013
12:00 PM
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The grill cloth is obviously not original. Should be brown not silver or wheat for that matter. The original brown/tan tolex is often described as "pink" as it tends to lighten with exposure to sunlight. Unless it is really Mary Kay the tolex probably is original.
They certainly can be great harp amps.
As to price, I'm not so sure about $5k for even a mint example. They are not nearly in demand as much as a '59 Bassman. With a little search I found one in good original condition on Ebay right now for $2995 with no takers. Another from a shop at $1595, although someone added casters. And another for $2795, very clean but with RI Jensens.
I don't know how good a negotiator you are but I would point out the non-original grill cloth and speaker and most importantly the non-working tremolo. Even though the lack of trem doesn't matter much for a harp amp it is one of the very most important features for a guitar player with this amp and others of the brown era and thus affects the price as guitar players of course are the primary market. I'd also point out the amp mentioned above in better condition for $1595. You'd have to judge how bad the guy needs to sell but I would bring cash notes and show him 14 $100 bills keeping the rest in various pockets so he doesn't know how much you brought.
Ultimately price also depends on how bad you want it but keep in mind to get it electronically sorted could be another $150-$200 plus maybe another $100 for a correct grill cloth.
The advise on taking it to a amp tech familiar with vintage gear is spot on.
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LSC
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LSC
Last Edited by LSC on Dec 11, 2013 12:02 PM
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1847
1386 posts
Dec 11, 2013
12:47 PM
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Light pinkish-brown Tolex gradually replaced tweed on most Fender amps in 1959-1960, itself replaced shortly thereafter, in 1961, by dark brown Tolex. Nearly concurrently (starting in late 1960) Fender also offered its new “piggyback”-style amps and the Twin in off-white or “blonde” Tolex, which had a rough texture at first but was changed to a smoother texture about a year later. The brown and blonde Tolex era ended in 1963, although existing stockpiles of Tolex in both colors continued to be used well into 1964 as Fender transitioned to black Tolex.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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tmf714
2243 posts
Dec 11, 2013
12:54 PM
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Pinkish-Brown tolex is correct for the 1956-61 models-
Brown was used for the 1962-63 models.
Brown grillecloth for the 60-61. Maroon for the 61-62.
Wheat for the 62-63 models .
They came with Jensen P10R,P10Q,C10R and Oxford 10K5 speakers.
Current avg price is $1149.00.
Last Edited by tmf714 on Dec 11, 2013 1:06 PM
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5F6H
1714 posts
Dec 11, 2013
1:45 PM
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The early 60's concerts are as good a stage amp as Fender ever made for harp. The fixed baffle makes them a bit tighter & punchier than a tweed bassman, but this is no bad thing when it comes to being heard. Great for chromatic too.
I wouldn't fret over the non working tremolo...they did have one of the best tremolos but it uses 2-2.5 preamp tubes and a lot of caps & resistors, a pain to trouble shoot and they all get a bit out of hand at some settings (chirps, thumps etc). Piazza & some other players pulled out all but the very outside 2 preamp tubes anyway.
Check it has the original transformers (PTs were pretty bullet proof, being the same as used on Twins & Showmans), grill cloth wouldn't bother me, use it to knock a few $ off.
$1800 seems a shade high considering cosmetic condition, but not mad money. Even if you have to pay for a full service, this amp should last you. All amps vary a little sonically (there were countless small changes accross Fenders of this age), but this can be made to sound as good as anything conceived around 2x5881/6L6 in fixed bias with 4x10".
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LSC
554 posts
Dec 11, 2013
4:01 PM
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@tmf714 - I stand somewhat corrected. Wasn't aware of so many cosmetic variations during that late 50's-early 60s period. Good to know.
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LSC
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ridge
474 posts
Dec 11, 2013
4:19 PM
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Hot damn. I thought I was a nerd, but you all take the cake... I'm glad you're all here though :)
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Ridge's YouTube
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Slimharp
69 posts
Dec 11, 2013
4:32 PM
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Yes its that pinkish brown - 60 tolex. The speakers have the brown bell cap with the yellow writing. I appreciate all of the feed back. I will see if I can get him to around $1600.00. I have a killer 90 Bassman RI with orange drops in it stock. No.AA00126 ( built and bought by a cat that worked at Fender ) and a 53 Ga-30. Maybe Im nuts wanting this amp. I think it's a sickness, a disease. Is it ever enough !! LOL
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tmf714
2244 posts
Dec 11, 2013
4:40 PM
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"The speakers have the brown bell cap with the yellow writing."
Oxford speakers in it for sure-
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