Slimharp
47 posts
Nov 13, 2013
10:29 AM
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Well I got mine today. Played it through a stock bassman ri. It does cut down on feedback. I tried plugging in at the same setting without the SK and couldnt get anywhere near half the volume. Settings changed with each mic I used but still provided good anti-feedback. I did notice with both pedals at some point you will get feedback but at very loud levels. The anti-feedback qualities are about the same as the Kinder. What I like about the SK is it's simplicity ( no knobs ) and very little if any tone change. What you play into it is what you get out. I dont like having to plug in the adaptor which can be a bit of a pain on stage but can be taken care of. Im glad I got the SK. Worth the $$.
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Rick Davis
2678 posts
Nov 13, 2013
10:58 AM
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Slimharp, that is exactly what I found when I reviewed the Squeal Killer. It cuts feedback about the same degree as the Kinder pedal: That means it increases your non-feedback volume by the same amount as the Kinder pedal.
I also found very little if any tone change.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Nov 14, 2013 4:54 PM
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jukelemon
17 posts
Nov 13, 2013
11:34 AM
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Hi Slim.
I am very glad you are happy and thank you for taking the time to write in to the forum/community.
Jason
The Squeal Killer
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jukelemon
18 posts
Nov 13, 2013
11:57 AM
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Slim:
Would you be so kind as to specify your mic that you used? I find it helpful to point that variable out in the signal chain/set up.
Thanks.
Jason
The Squeal Killer
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Tblues1
43 posts
Nov 13, 2013
12:09 PM
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Without SK limit was about 5- 5 1/2, with 2 5751's in preamp.
With SK hooked up volume at 9 was about the same as it was at 5 1/2 without SK.
SK gave a slightly darker/crunchier tone.
5751 and a 12AY7 without SK, allows about 8 1/2 on volume knob before feedback threshold looms.
At that setting amp is noticeably louder than at 9 with SK hooked up.
Useful tool in some situations, but no magic here.
If I'm missing something, I would be most appreciative on hearing what it is.
Last Edited by Tblues1 on Nov 13, 2013 12:10 PM
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jukelemon
19 posts
Nov 13, 2013
12:29 PM
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Hi all.
For my benefit (and probably others as well) it is critical to list out the amp.
All amps are not the same and even if they state 50 watts, the preamp and gain structure of the amps can be polar opposites.
Thanks all.
Jason
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Tblues1
44 posts
Nov 13, 2013
12:33 PM
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@Jukelemon
Mission Amps 50W as stated in my previous post on this subject.
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jukelemon
20 posts
Nov 13, 2013
1:58 PM
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Hi tblues.
The Mission amp has a different preamp stage then the Bassman. If you can send me the schematic I could get into the specifics of any tone stack changes and even more specific about the preamp.
But just knowing that you are running 2 preamp tubes versus 3 in the Bassman is enough for me to understand why the results are different. That loss of one tube as far as gain structure in the amp is significant.
Here is a rough but good analogy...
427 V8. 2 cars. Same engine (let's say 400hp). Each car has a different intake.
The hp/engine equates to the OT of the amps. The intake equates to the preamp.
The engines are going to respond very differently if one intake is ported/polished/flowed against a stock intake that is not.
The point is that saying 2 amps are 50w is not the whole story when looking at why one person is getting substantial results and another is not. That is what I am trying to convey.
So your experience of "no magic" is accurate for your set up/amp/mic. I think that is valuable information for others and me.
For others so that they can make a good decision and for me so that 1-I can try and fix it (maybe) with a revision designed for harp amps/amps with particular preamp stage and 2-can express these results on the site so that potential customers can make a good buying decision.
Jason
Last Edited by jukelemon on Nov 13, 2013 2:06 PM
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Tblues1
45 posts
Nov 13, 2013
4:04 PM
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@ Jukelemon
You know as well as I do I can't send you a schematic.
Sounds very much like you're saying SK essentially simulates a lower gain tube in V1 without actually changing it?
Sounds like simply changing tubes or reducing volume essentially does the same thing?
Sounds like SK gives you the convenience of plugging into a guitar amp without changing tubes.
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jukelemon
21 posts
Nov 13, 2013
5:23 PM
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Tblues:
I think this going somewhere not intended. So this will be my last post on the matter of explaining my thought on the issue you asked about.
I am not sure why the comment about the schematic..But to clear the air, if I knew you didn't have a schematic then I would not have asked. I was not trying to be snarky nor is that how I behave in general. You asked WHY and I was attempting to explain it at a schematic level. I obviously did not make that point clear. Sorry. But again, I don't operate that way so please don't assume my comments are anything other than just that i.e. questions and comments with the idea of trying to understand your perspective.
Regarding tubes, no. If all the SK did was simulate a lower gain tube, then all one would need to do is buy a 12au7 and be done with it or a 12ay7 given a less hot mic. But I think it has been concluded that that is not a solution. If it was, Mission Amps/Harp King/Meteor Amps would not exist. We could plug a 12au7 into whatever we wanted and call it a day.
You have gain, you have wattage and you have feedback and they are all inter connected in some way.
I will agree that yes, your last statement is probably very true as a means of convenience. As a matter of fact, I had a harp player inquire about the SK for just that i.e. he was doing a tour/didn't have his amps/and needed something to be able to just plug in and use whatever was there like a Twin/Super Reverb/the like.
But that use does not point to the SK acting like a lower gain tube. It is just not that simple. There is a very real difference in richness/thickness/volume of an amp with the SK as opposed to one without/with tube substitution. For all amps/set ups? No. And your experience proves such-which again is fine and of value to all.
As I have offered before, happy to talk on the phone about the differences and why I feel they exist.
Hope you are well.
Last Edited by jukelemon on Nov 13, 2013 5:41 PM
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Slimharp
48 posts
Nov 14, 2013
5:38 AM
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Juke, I used 1. JT 30 with a white CM 2. Old Green Bullet with a black CM 3. JT 30 with a no name Japanese Ceramic. Two of the mics had 1 MG volume pots, one had a 5MG volume pot. The ceramic is a little hotter and started to ring at about 8 on the stock bassman. I got to near 9 with the two CM's before they started to ring. I did not notice any significant tone change with any of my mics.I have some other mics I use as seconds I will try today.
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jukelemon
24 posts
Nov 14, 2013
6:31 AM
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Thanks Slim. That is very helpful to know.
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TetonJohn
162 posts
Nov 14, 2013
7:15 AM
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I think the idea of having a pedal designed to harpify a guitar amp w/o any mods to the amp is kinda cool. i do have harp amps, but sometimes I (and others) do use a guitar amp. I think there are at least 2 issues -- feedback and tone control (as in too much treble harshness on many guitar amps) -- so, I usually use both a feedback pedal and a tone control pedal when using a guitar amp. The ide of 1 pedal is a cool product idea. The tone pedal i have ben using is the LW Tone+ which i believe also helps with a third factor that i don't really understand (not an electronics guy) and that has to do with fine impedance matching between microphone and amp (I'm not talking about low impedance mic to high impedance amp). In any case, a single "harpification" pedal is an idea that might have legs.
Last Edited by TetonJohn on Nov 14, 2013 7:17 AM
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harpoon_man
38 posts
Nov 14, 2013
4:33 PM
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Apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere, but can the Squeal Killer be plugged into the same outlet/power strip as the guitar amp, or does it need to be plugged into a separate circuit?
Thanks,
Rusty
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jukelemon
26 posts
Nov 14, 2013
5:40 PM
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Hi Harpoon. The power source does not matter i.e. it can share power with anything on your rig.
Good question and one that has not been asked.
Jason
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Frank
3275 posts
Nov 14, 2013
6:01 PM
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Are there amps made with this type of design already built in?
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The Centipide Saloon
Tip Your Waiter Please
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harpoon_man
39 posts
Nov 14, 2013
6:16 PM
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Thanks, Jason, and I appreciate your quick answers to questions on this board. Hoping to be able to pick up one of these SK's soon.
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jukelemon
27 posts
Nov 15, 2013
5:33 AM
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Frank:
Well yes...1 and that was a Stella Vee Amplification amp I built several years ago for a harp player in Knoxville. It was a 59 Pro with this built in :) That is how this all started. Other than that, no.
I thought about providing a service to install this into the amp. Have not really decided one way or the other. Shipping an amp back and forth makes me nervous. That is a lot of opportunity for damage. If it was local, it would be more than likely a YES.
I am in the process of designing an actual amp that is built with 2 input sections - one voiced/created for harp and another for guitar. This amp has a selfish motive since that is what I need on stage but I think others will find it useful.
I am going to experiment with 6l6's and KT66's. The KT's have some really nice characteristics for clean power. 4 x 10's or 3 x 10's and want to experiment with the new Neo type speakers for weight as well. I personally don't like anything other than Alnico but I am open to others as they increase their design/get to sounding better.
Harpoon: no problem. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Jason
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6SN7
392 posts
Nov 15, 2013
8:33 AM
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Recently, I played at a local jam night at a club that provides a backline of amps: Fender Blackface Deluxe, a Tweed Bassman RI and some other Fender amps. I went with the Bassman. The thing started squealing like a pig at 2. I plug my Kinder in, fiddled with the dials and it did the job. Was it perfect? No, but it worked, I got decent tone and the villagers (and musicians) didn't carry me away and burn me.
Sure, I guess I could have brought some tubes and fiddled around with them, but that seems silly in light that you are called up and have to be ready to play real quick. Also, you are playing 3 or 4 tunes, is that worth the time to fart around with tubes?
Honestly, the Squeal Killer sounds like the ideal antidote to this problem. I have $ already tied up with my Kinder, so I don't need the SK,but if I didn't have the Kinder, I would buy the SK in a heartbeat. I particularly like the idea of plug and play; no dial to mess with and no 9 volt batteries to fuss with. Good luck with your product!
Last Edited by 6SN7 on Nov 15, 2013 8:35 AM
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jukelemon
28 posts
Nov 15, 2013
9:08 AM
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6SN7:
First off, I love your call name LOL. I am so found of octals.
Second, thanks for the insight. I too agree for those that attend jams that don't allow your amps this would be a good tool. For that matter and like I mentioned earlier, for folks playing tours or festivals that they have to fly in this is ideal i.e. something to tame the backline.
Jason
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jukelemon
29 posts
Nov 15, 2013
9:31 AM
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I just received a review/comment from a customer who plays both a Harp Gear and Mission Amp set up. I will not list it/quote it. I am hoping the gentleman posts to this forum already.
But I will say that his experience was very positive and his amp was taken to a very differently level of volume and responsiveness.
Hoping he will either post or allow me the use of his words under the site's testimonials.
Jason
Last Edited by jukelemon on Nov 15, 2013 9:34 AM
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Frank
3281 posts
Nov 15, 2013
9:40 AM
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Why don't guys who build harp amps, just automatically add them to the amp?
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jukelemon
30 posts
Nov 15, 2013
9:53 AM
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Hi all. I received permission to post the review. It is now on the site and I will list it here:
"Jason,
Received The Squeal Killer Tues. Put it through a Harp Gear 35 at the Wed. Jam and through a Mission 50w 3x10 at a Thurs jam. Both great sounding amps on there own but with The SK more explosive and of course it's main purpose no feedback at much louder levels.
The additional benefit with the 50w Mission was I was able to use the
3 way mic boost at a higher volume than ever before. I normally could not make use of this unless at a lower volume.
The guitar player who run's the jam here in Joliet
actually turned around walked over and looked at my amp!
Mics used:
Greg Heumann Custom w/Shure cm,
Astatic biscuit w/Shure Wt label cr, and EV605 w/Shure cm.
Amps used:
The Harp Gear v1 ax7, v2 5751
The Mission v1 5751 v2 ax7"
Mark Splitt
Chicago, IL
Mark was kind enough to offer anyone in his area the opportunity to play with the SK through his amps or ( I would assume) your own with his SK.
Thought I would pass this along to anyone in that area.
Jason
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jukelemon
31 posts
Nov 15, 2013
9:56 AM
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Frank:
Admittedly, I don't know every Harp amp out there so it is hard to say.
But I know Kinder does integrate his design into his Harp Kings. I don't know if Mission Amps or Harp Gear have a pedal they offer. And if they do it may not be feasible, given the complexity of design/space/etc to integrate it into their amp.
I could integrate mine quite easily but...I don't make amps anymore LOL. At least not now. Maybe in the near future. Working on a design now.
Jason
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jukelemon
32 posts
Nov 17, 2013
6:39 PM
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Hi all.
I just loaded 2 samples on the website for those that are interested in a listen.
Recorded with a Zoom Q3HD. No processing. No changes.
Both amps were so loud that people were complaining-especially the Twin and it was only at 6 on the Master Volume.
www.thesquealkiller.com
Jason
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Frank
3304 posts
Nov 17, 2013
6:48 PM
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I had a buddy come over once with a kinder box and hooked it to my Holland/Bassman...It was so LOUD - it was disgusting we could put it up to 10. I have had the neighbor's come to my door from across the street and complain when playing it on 4 with no box... but I had The windows open and making some hellish noise so the complaint was warranted :)
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The Centipide Saloon
Tip Your Waiter Please
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Tblues1
46 posts
Nov 18, 2013
4:12 AM
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Mission Amps 50w, 1x15
Emminence Big Ben speaker
Turner bullet mic/Shure 99G86 CR element
Two 5751's in preamp
5AR4 rectifier
2 6L6 power tubes
W/O SK vol knob 5 to 5.5 (max) (101.6 db)
With SK, vol knob @5.5 (97.6 db)
With SK, vol knob 8.5 to 9 is max
At 8.5-9 vol knob with SK (101.6 db)
Tone slightly darker/crunchier, Bass/treble were set to abot mid range.
More knob travel attained, no increase in actual volume of that without SK.
With normal set up, 12AY7 in V1 and 5751 in V2, max volume setting is about 8,at 8 (101.6 db) is noted,
In my opinion tone was better with this setup, but that of course is a matter of personal preference.
Effectively what SK did was to lower gain, attenuate input, thereby helping to control feedback, and slighlty change tone.
Two 5751's were installed for the test.
No change in amp responsiveness noted with SK hooked up.
Seems to prove my point that SK would be a useful tool for an unmodified guiter amp when you don't want to change a preamp tube.
I am not trying to offend anyone here, but these are my honest findings.
I have not yet had a chance to plug into someone's guitar amp and test.
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jukelemon
33 posts
Nov 18, 2013
5:19 AM
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Great story Frank. You got to love when a harp is playing that loud!
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Bass410man
8 posts
Nov 18, 2013
9:48 AM
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Jukelemon,
First I would like to say that I think what you are doing, by developing a new product to give people a choice, is great for the harp community all around. I have been considering buying an anti-feedback device for some time, but heard the kinder can turn into a nightmare to try and attain, so thank you for all your efforts. Now I am waiting on some medical news before I make any decisions on anymore purchases, but I would still like to ask you a question.
I have a 1991 Bassman RI the only thing I have done to it is change the R-28 and R-29 resistors to a full watt but the same value as the 1/2 watts that were there, and added bias pot. I now have for tubes in it V1-12AT7, V2-12AY7, V3- 12AU7, with this I can get my volume up to 7 in my house in a small room. Now from what I'm reading here is that most people are getting about average of about 2 more numbers higher on the volume with your product. Could I not gain almost that much by adding another 12AU7 to V1or V2, or is there some other factors involved that I don't know about. It may make a huge difference in some amps, but I am trying to figure out if it's the best choice for a Bassman. Thanks Again.
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jukelemon
34 posts
Nov 18, 2013
10:53 AM
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Hi Bass410.
First off, thanks for the kind words.I hope your medical news is positive.
I have heard the effects on a Bassman RI. They are very positive and the amp becomes very loud and rich in tone (the 1st post in this series started off with a Bassman RI/SK review).
Swapping tubes, in my opinion and in my experience, cannot obtain the same volume/richness of tone as a stock Bassman RI with a Squeal Killer.
I think you would be extremely happy with a SK. If you are not, there is 100% guarantee/warranty to protect your concerns/experience :)
Jason
Last Edited by jukelemon on Nov 18, 2013 10:53 AM
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Harpaholic
429 posts
Nov 18, 2013
10:55 AM
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Great test Tblues! Really helpful. I appreciate the time everyone is taking to run the tests.
What about running all 12AX7's in the Mission, and then performing the test? Or someone with a stock Bassman and all 12AX's? Just a thought!
B410, by adding another 12AU, your lowering the gain and the wattage, so you should get more range on the volume knob. I personally have never used a 12AU7 in any amp in any position. Don't like the effect on tone.
Have you tried a 12AT in the PI? Perfect tube for that!
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Nov 18, 2013 11:51 AM
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Tblues1
47 posts
Nov 18, 2013
12:24 PM
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Harpaholic,
No 12AX7 used for the test.
Did not have a spare around.
I have a 2x10 with a 12AX7/12AY7 setup, but did not test it and did not want to pull a tube just to do the test.
I used the 1x15 because it is slightly more feedback sensitive than the 2x10 and it seems to like the 5751 a little more.
Whatever max volume the amp is capable of is not going to change, assuming it is reaching max power, which it is (I have checked voltage and current on the power section).
What does change is where it is reached and to some degree, the tone.
I did try a 12AT7 in V1, as mentioned in previous posts, seemed to not be enough and didn't like the tone.
Did not use a db meter with the 12AT7.
I have not yet tried SK in any other amp.
Bear in mind that this is my opinion.
My preference for this amp is 5751/12AY7 combo.
Last Edited by Tblues1 on Nov 18, 2013 12:26 PM
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Rick Davis
2706 posts
Nov 18, 2013
12:58 PM
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Tblues, how do you like that Mission 1x15 amp? I've not had a chance to play one of those...
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Tblues1
48 posts
Nov 18, 2013
1:27 PM
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Rick,
Amp is great.
Warm, punchy tone, good volume.
Agreeable overall dimensions.
I don't think Bruce is offering it as an option any more, not sure.
took a little bit of tube rolling to get where I wanted it.
Sounds like another thread.
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