atty1chgo
704 posts
Sep 08, 2013
7:46 AM
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Serious blues.
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tmf714
1947 posts
Sep 08, 2013
8:46 AM
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tmf714
1948 posts
Sep 08, 2013
8:46 AM
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TheoBurke
461 posts
Sep 08, 2013
10:16 AM
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Very fine. ZZ Top are a seriously under rated blues band; besides their chops and feel for the blues, they are as well superb writers of blues style songs. I performed "Waiting for the Bus/Jesus Just Left Chicago" in a band int he eighties as my "showcase" number. Their songs are the best for a harmonica player to learn; they seem to have written them with a harp player in mind. Thans for posting.
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Ted Burke
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheoBurke?feature=mhee
http://ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.co,
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Rick Davis
2326 posts
Sep 08, 2013
10:47 AM
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Yep. They kept the blues alive for me back in the early 70s when all my friends were listening to rock. The Little Band From Tejas was playin' the blues.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
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CWinter
69 posts
Sep 08, 2013
6:25 PM
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And the harp that is heard on classic ZZ Top songs was played by Billy Gibbons...Mushmouth Shoutin'
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tmf714
1954 posts
Sep 09, 2013
10:35 AM
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" And the harp that is heard on classic ZZ Top songs was played by Billy Gibbons...Mushmouth Shoutin' "
And most of the rest was done by James Harman-
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fred_gomez
203 posts
Sep 09, 2013
12:13 PM
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meh theyre ok but no led zepplin
la grange (john lee hooker rip off)
tush (sweet home chicago)
then came synth zz top totally sucked. i dont need to own any of their music to play it blindfolded in a biker bar.
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tmf714
1956 posts
Sep 09, 2013
12:25 PM
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They don't have any false pretenses - they aint no Led but they kick red dirt metal ass.
As far as rip offs-they are paying homage.
Put your blindfold on and check it out-
Last Edited by tmf714 on Sep 09, 2013 12:26 PM
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harpdude61
1811 posts
Sep 09, 2013
12:56 PM
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Are you kiddin Fred? ZZ Top should always be mentioned in the same breath with Stones, Led, The Who, etc...I'm sure they influenced many great rock and blues musicians. By the way,they are in the RnR Hall of Fame.
Sur their synth sound wasn't for blues purist, but it got em the big time which was nothing but good news for the blues. To be honest, beck in my clubbing days I was so glad when their disco versions came on. Much better than the rest.
I saw them three times. Once in the 80's with full stage show including cars and girls. All were fantastic!
Tush is one of the hottest 12 bar blues/rock songs ever. Sorry, I don't hear Sweet Home Chicago??
If you do a search on the word cool....ZZ Top's picture should be there!!! Howa Howa!!
Last Edited by harpdude61 on Sep 09, 2013 12:58 PM
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The Iceman
1143 posts
Sep 09, 2013
1:42 PM
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Saw the video of one of Clapton's Guitar Festivals.
Eric played second to last and let ZZ TOP close the show. He said that Billy Gibbons was such a great blues guitarist that he let them be the last act.
Pretty good set they laid down that night.
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The Iceman
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tmf714
1959 posts
Sep 09, 2013
1:44 PM
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tmf714
1960 posts
Sep 09, 2013
1:52 PM
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Closing the show with Clapton interview-
Last Edited by tmf714 on Sep 09, 2013 1:55 PM
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fred_gomez
204 posts
Sep 09, 2013
2:59 PM
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ahh eric crapton another no talent racist living off stolen blackmans music.
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fred_gomez
205 posts
Sep 09, 2013
3:05 PM
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A failed suit by the copyright holder of Boogie Chillen resulted in the court ruling that the rhythm was in the public domain.
zz tp should have been successfully sued, its a hooker song.
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SuperBee
1417 posts
Sep 09, 2013
3:21 PM
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I got a feeling someone used that rhythm before hooker. Damn my memory!
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JellyShakersTipJar
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tmf714
1965 posts
Sep 09, 2013
3:33 PM
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For a no talent racist,he sure did garner a lot of recognition and awards-
Good luck with a ZZ Top law suit-Zep stole more than Top ever did-
Last Edited by tmf714 on Sep 09, 2013 3:34 PM
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garry
430 posts
Sep 09, 2013
4:29 PM
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a friend's band does some ZZ tunes. this one's fun to play, got a great hook.
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fred_gomez
206 posts
Sep 09, 2013
6:52 PM
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alot of talentless people won awards including hitler and mussolini. it just proves white people only have taste in their mouths not their ears. you like goose steppin to his "music" fine i think it sucks shit through a straw. as for zepplin the only song that even comes close to being stolen is how many more times. and page was sucessfully sued and should have been. but at least page can recycle and throw a bit of himself into it without ripping off an actual riff. anyhoo i dont have to listen to crapton you do. poor you.
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tmf714
1967 posts
Sep 09, 2013
7:09 PM
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"'it just proves white people only have taste in their mouths not their ears "
Speak for yourself-I have more musical taste in my pinky than you will ever have in your life-I don't listen to Clapton-that's not what this thread is about-I was merely pointing out a fact-you'll never have 10% of the money Clapton has -or his talent. Jealous?
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tmf714
1968 posts
Sep 09, 2013
7:19 PM
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Eric Clapton net worth: Eric Clapton is a British rock musician who has a net worth of $200 million. Eric Clapton was born March 30, 1945 in Surrey, England. He is a blues-rock guitarist, composer, singer, and songwriter. He was ranked at #53 on Rolling Stone’s Top 100 Artists Of All-Time. At the age of 17, he joined his first band called "The Roosters". In 1966 Clapton formed the band "Cream" w...
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tmf714
1969 posts
Sep 09, 2013
7:20 PM
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James Patrick Page is an English guitarist, songwriter and record producer and the founder of one of the all-time great rocks bands, Led Zeppelin. Born in London, England on January 9, 1944 he has an estimated net worth of $125 million. Page got his start as a session guitarist at a London music studio in the 1960s and worked with many well-known British singing groups at that time. In 1966, he became a member of The Yard Birds, a group that enjoyed modest success. However, real fame came when he founded Led Zeppelin. Allmusic has referred to Page as "unquestionably one of the all-time most influential, important and versatile guitarists and songwriters in rock history. In 2003, Rolling Stone magazine ranked him Number 9 on the list of 100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time. He has also been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame twice – for his participation with The Yard Birds and with Led Zeppelin, as well. Many in the music industry believe that Jimmy Page has been a continuous and positive influence on all rock bands since the 1970s.
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tmf714
1970 posts
Sep 09, 2013
7:42 PM
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And now-back to our regularly scheduled programming-
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tmf714
1971 posts
Sep 09, 2013
7:45 PM
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Loz123
18 posts
Sep 10, 2013
5:08 AM
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in reply to fred
I didn’t know this about Eric Clapton, this is absolutely shocking, I never was really into him anyway but this has just made me feel sick to the core. What a nasty piece of work!
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chromaticblues
1462 posts
Sep 10, 2013
6:49 AM
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I've always been a big fan ZZ Top and I like a lot of Eric Clapton's muic. I wouldn't say I'm a big fan, but he has made a boat load of music and some of it is as good as it gets!
I am White so maybe my ears don't work very well!
That sucks I never knew white people couldn't hear!
I'm always the last to hear about this stuff!
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Tweedaddict
101 posts
Sep 10, 2013
7:20 PM
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> Fred Gomez
"it just proves white people only have taste in their mouths not their ears"
IMHO, FRED, Take your racist BS and F off.
Can a moderator delete this crap, no?
Would we hear more complaints if Fred used the word BLACK instead of WHITE?
Frankly, delete the BS and pull your head in Fred.
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nacoran
7121 posts
Sep 10, 2013
9:54 PM
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And breathe...
Fred Gomez, I'm not sure if that's meant to be a joke that misfired or if it's a shot across the bow, but I think it missed it's mark. I'd heard the accusations against Clapton before, and they are certainly fair game to bring up, try not starting a race war in the process, and try not sending a perfectly good thread off the cliff.
That said, I see topics for two different threads that might be interesting to split off from this, if we can keep it civil-
Stolen music and the blues. Blues has a tradition of stealing, borrowing, copying, and rewriting other people's stuff. Some songs even start off as one song and after getting cut and pasted a few times end up being a different song. Blues seems to have an odd ethic about this that doesn't necessarily jibe with copyright law. Examples would be great. Sometimes the cover is better than the original.
The other topic is the whole thing of 'can you separate a musician from their music?' That might be a more appropriate place to bring up Clapton's alleged remarks. I grew up on The Beatles. As I've grown older I've heard that 3/4 of the band beat their wives. Michael Jackson was accused of horrible things. Leadbelly murdered a man.
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Nate
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Silvertone
135 posts
Sep 11, 2013
9:55 AM
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That's some good moderating right there.
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Honkin On Bobo
1145 posts
Sep 11, 2013
12:38 PM
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Love me some ZZ TOP!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, at least from interviews I've seen, Billy Gibbons seeems like one cool Dude.
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A440
106 posts
Sep 12, 2013
11:59 AM
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ZZ TOP is quintessential. I love their first 5 albums, and have been listening to them for 3 decades. I don't think they are "under rated". Most blues rock musicians/listeners I know rate the Top highly, as they should be. Yes, that's some serious Blues.
Last Edited by A440 on Sep 12, 2013 12:01 PM
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fred_gomez
208 posts
Sep 12, 2013
1:36 PM
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ok la grange- john lee hooker wrote this riff it is not traditional and no one ever played it before him.
tush- elmore james wrote this riff no one ever played it before him. he also wrote dust my broom which was stolen by robert johnson and recorded before elmore had a record deal.
as far as i know i havent heard zz top rip off bo diddley (i really dont buy thier music)but that red guitar that looks like a 57 cadilac fin was designed by bo.
chuck berry sued the beach boys, willie dixon sued jimmy page and i hope to god the holder of john lee hookers estate can sue zz top before they die.
oh and eric clapton is a walking peice of human shit.
he didnt shoot the sherrif or go down to the crossroads in the wee wee hours,a black guy did. "before you accuse me take a look at yourself" -elias mcdaniels
Last Edited by fred_gomez on Sep 12, 2013 1:39 PM
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CWinter
71 posts
Sep 12, 2013
2:25 PM
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@fred_gomez,
Have you ever heard what Buddy Guy has said about stealing someone else's stuff? Something to the effect of, "Musicians are the biggest thieves in the world."
According to Keith Richards, Chuck Berry stole most of his shit from Johnnie Johnson. They're both of the same color, so whatever....
Sure ZZ Top stole the La Grange riff, and maybe Tush too. They probably stole half of their riffs. But the stuff they DIDN'T steal, was pretty good. They definitely made a solid contribution to the world of music.
Maybe you can play all of their stuff, but could you come up with it?
Last Edited by CWinter on Sep 12, 2013 2:26 PM
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fred_gomez
209 posts
Sep 12, 2013
2:51 PM
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no i dont like buddy guy. johnnie johnson is a piano player, chuck berry wrote his own guitar riffs. keith richards, lemmy kilminster and fidel castro need to drop dead already. chuck berry/bo diddley/elmore james/ and john lee hooker contributed to the world of "blues music" the only music that ever mattered. people influenced by them who stole from them and made millions on them contributed absolutely nothing! end of story.
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1847
1063 posts
Sep 12, 2013
2:51 PM
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Let’s begin by saying that it wasn’t John Lee Hooker himself that sued Z.Z. Top, but rather Hooker’s songwriting partner and copyright holder, Bernard Besman. The classic boogie-style blues riff that was first recorded by John Lee Hooker in the form of “Boogie Chillun”, in 1948, became the basis for the court case La Cienega Music Co v. Z.Z. Top in 1992. Hooker had long acknowledged that his sound was far from original. He has often attributed his musical style of “boogie” as his version of the boogie-woogie style he heard growing up in Mississippi. Hooker also made public statements that he, personally, was not involved in the lawsuit against Z.Z. Top and that he would not gain financially in anyway. Additionally, he said he respected Z.Z. Top and that they were mutual fans of each other’s work.
So, how did this copyright infringement case over the classic riff of “Boogie Chillun”, “La Grange” and countless other blues and rock tunes come to be?
In 1992, Besman (and his company La Cienega Music Co.) brought a claim against Z.Z. Top and their publishing company, Hamstein Music Company, over the 1973, Z.Z. Top hit “La Grange”, which he alleged was infringing the copyright of the Besman-owned song “Boogie Chillun”, published in 1948, a re-written and published version in 1950, as well as another re-written version in 1970. (An important fact is that John Lee Hooker had assigned all his rights to this song to Besman, who later registered the copyright with the U.S. Copyright Office in 1967.)
Z.Z. Top argued that though “La Grange” was based on the “Boogie Chillun” and John Lee Hooker’s style of boogie, that the elements taken and the song itself were considered public domain. This argument, which ultimately was convincing to the court, and the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, was that under the Copyright Act of 1909, “Boogie Chillun” was no longer protected by copyright.
The court rule that under the 1909 Copyright Act, an “unpublished” song was entitled to protection under what is known as State “Common-law Copyright protection”, until either it is published or it is registered with the U.S Copyright Office. Although the Copyright Act is unclear as to what constitutes “publishing”, other than publication of sheet music, the majority of courts have agreed the sale of recordings to the general public rises to “publishing” for purposes of common-law copyright. Under the 1909 Copyright Act, an author of a creative work, is entitled to 28 years of copyright protection, with the option to re-register for an additional 28 years. The court also found, under the 1909 Copyright Act, that once a song is published and the author has failed to register the work with the U.S Copyright Office, the song immediately, and irrevocably falls into the public domain. In this case, the Courts found that Besman had failed to properly copyright the song in a timely manner, so the early versions of the song were considered part of the public domain, which meant Z.Z. Top was not liable to Besman or La Cienega Music Co.. So for all the boogie-lovin’ blues and rock fans out there….if you got that boogie-woogie in you and you gotta let it out….do it….a-how-how-how-how!!!
On a side note, the length of copyright protection to a registered work has changed twice since 1909, first with the Copyright Act of 1976, and again with the Copyright Term Extension Act of 1998 (A.k.a. The Sonny Bono Act).
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there's a new sheriff in town
i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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1847
1064 posts
Sep 12, 2013
3:05 PM
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its not stolen... its appropriated
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there's a new sheriff in town
i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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fred_gomez
210 posts
Sep 12, 2013
3:20 PM
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ok theres two boats one is full of zz top recordings the other is full of john lee hooker recordings. both boats are sinking, which do you save, the john lee hooker recordings or the floating bucket of shit?
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1847
1065 posts
Sep 12, 2013
3:38 PM
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well if the bucket of shit is floating.. no reason to save it. lol
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there's a new sheriff in town
i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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tmf714
1981 posts
Sep 12, 2013
3:49 PM
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" ok theres two boats one is full of zz top recordings the other is full of john lee hooker recordings. both boats are sinking, which do you save, the john lee hooker recordings or the floating bucket of shit? "
Both-then I would tow both back to shore,repair them and sell them-with the money I would buy a nice sound system to play the ZZ top music,and I would hire you to clean up the defecation-
Last Edited by tmf714 on Sep 12, 2013 3:53 PM
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1847
1066 posts
Sep 12, 2013
5:11 PM
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mr gomez,....sounds like you must have a kick ass band?
do you play blues? do you do any covers?
are all the songs you play originals?
do you write all your own songs?
you said something about playing in a biker bar
perhaps some of us can ride to one of your gigs....see how it is supposed to be done. do you have any up coming gigs we should know about?
will you be doing any john lee hooker tunes?
bo diddley?
really curious here, perhaps i heard you on the radio?
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there's a new sheriff in town
i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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fred_gomez
211 posts
Sep 12, 2013
5:47 PM
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oh man! this just screams of cheese grits fried chicken and waffles ribs and hot wangs colt 45 old english red lady md 20/20 robitussin pink champale on tap black and white scotch blackeyed peas collard greens smashed potatoes macaroni and cheese red jello with bananas mango salad beans and cornbread top it off with a chicko stick lemmon heads grape soda and a reefer. ayum this is the blues the real deal!
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tmf714
1982 posts
Sep 12, 2013
6:09 PM
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Man-if that aint the pot callin the kettle black, I don't know what is- wow. This guys a real winner-
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kudzurunner
4251 posts
Sep 12, 2013
6:30 PM
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That's a great video, Fred! It's as good as Robert Johnson's "Red Hots." Or B. B. King's disco album. All the true blues greats are great in part because they're trying to find a middle ground between what they do and what the public wants. That's what makes John Lee Hooker's "The Healer" so fantastic. The last thing in the world that blues purists would imagine for the Hook is a synth-driven album. But there you go. The Hook is a genius and he made it work. You like synth? So do I. We're real blues guys, you and me.
Unless you're the kind of pseudo-blues guy who thinks that John Lee Hooker sold out when he did that album.
That's not you, is it? I'm sure you're a real blues guy, like me. I can tell from the facility with which you sling the down-home language. That makes two of us, bro.
Part of what makes us real blues guys is that we know how to signify. This keeps us one notch above the losers and the fakes. In fact, if no one is quite sure what we're saying, we win! We get to live in our little crow-nest and look down on 'em all.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Sep 12, 2013 6:32 PM
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1847
1067 posts
Sep 12, 2013
6:33 PM
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well it did reek of pink champale lol
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there's a new sheriff in town
i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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CWinter
72 posts
Sep 12, 2013
6:37 PM
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Ok, Velcro Fly is absolute cheezeball crap. I'd never seen that before. That was repugnant.
Their first 3 were great....!
ZZ Top's First Album
Rio Grande Mud
Tres Hombres
Last Edited by CWinter on Sep 12, 2013 7:29 PM
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Barley Nectar
25 posts
Sep 12, 2013
6:57 PM
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ZZ Top, seen um 5 times. Love um. I was amazed when I saw the Clapton show and they were using EV 664's for vocals. Cool vintage stands also. I wonder if the mics were stock?.
I'v also seen Clapton several times. I'd like to jam with him.
Music is made up from sounds that we have heard and can fit together in a way that makes sence. I doubt that there are many origional combinations left. I hear bits an peices of old music in new music all the time. That is just the way it is...BN
Last Edited by Barley Nectar on Sep 12, 2013 6:59 PM
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nacoran
7128 posts
Sep 12, 2013
7:19 PM
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"Good artists borrow, great artists steal."
-Pablo Picasso, or T.S. Eliot, depending on who you ask. (Steve Jobs also took a stab at it, but he didn't quote it quite right.)
What's the difference between 'referencing' or 'alluding' to someone else's work and flat out stealing it? Sometimes it's as simple as who is listening. If I show up in the 90's and start playing the bass riff from Queen's 'Under Pressure' to a bunch of young kids, I'm stealing it. If I play it to a bunch of guys who listen to classic rock I'm just riffing on a classic and trying to make it fresh (or obnoxious, depending on your musical tastes. (Ice Ice Baby)
Of course, if you come clean about stealing the riff in the first place, and reference the people who went before, that's a different story, but do you have to read a whole disclaimer before every show, or just mention it when you are giving shout outs when you are inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. (I vote no on Vanilla Ice on my ballot every year, or would if I had a ballot!)
What about melodies that you heard so often as a kid that they are burned into your brain. Why do we draw a distinction between melodies and chord structures (aside from math?) Aren't we all ripping off whoever played the first 12-bar progression (or Pachelbel for pop players?)
How about the first guy who bent a note? Was he ripping off the Germans who created the harmonica? Or were they ripping of the guys who invented the free reed?
Where do you draw the line?
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Tweedaddict
102 posts
Sep 12, 2013
7:26 PM
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WTF?
smartass racist Fred back at it?
Oh yeah... It's ok. He's a REÀL BLUESman apparently.
I'm out. No more forum bs for me. Thanks Kudzu, you got something good here, but I'm too old and cranky to read wankers statements anymore... Keep blowin!
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1847
1068 posts
Sep 12, 2013
8:54 PM
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So tweed are you going to take the ball and go home? Really?
Sorry it’s not you’re ball
Besides that would be a shame.
I love zzhill I mean top.
Does that mean no one else can have a different opinion? Mr Gomez brings
Up some perfectly valid issues
I found his last comment to be hilarious. So what do comedy and the blues have in common?
Someone once said the blues is about the truth. Same with comedy, what is most funny is usually very true.
Do I agree with everything he said?
No!
But what he said “
oh man! this just screams of cheese grits fried chicken and waffles ribs and hot wangs colt 45 old english red lady md 20/20 robitussin pink champale on tap black and white scotch blackeyed peas collard greens smashed potatoes macaroni and cheese red jello with bananas mango salad beans and cornbread top it off with a chicko stick lemmon heads grape soda and a reefer. ayum this is the blues the real deal!
Is so true! I am not offended, intrigued
Absolutely. I do not try to kid myself
Is what I do blues? I think not.
Am I trying to fool anyone? No.
“perhaps that is the blues”
but what I do is not blues not by a long stretch. So is that going to stop me?
I think not. What are my options?
Sit around and watch tv?
No thank you.
What I have a problem with is when
Some one calls someone out
Like mr Gomez did here. I want to see what they have
Can they deliver the goods?
If you are going to talk the talk… then walk the walk!
Cassius clay, could talk the talk
He would float like a butterfly
Then sting like a bee.
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there's a new sheriff in town
i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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paulbunyn
85 posts
Sep 12, 2013
9:27 PM
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The issue (from what I've read) is that if a white member of this forum crapped on blacks the same as this guy crapped on white people, they would have been removed from the forum already.
To say only Blacks have good taste in music or only blacks can play good music is TOTALLY asinine.
IMO If it weren't for Whites (AND ALL THE OTHER RACES) learning to appreciate Blues and pump their money into it, it would probably be dead and archived now. The majority of blacks now could care less about blues. "That's old school", they have moved on to Rap and other newer music.
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