puri
116 posts
Sep 01, 2013
7:06 AM
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I've just changed my speaker from eminence 1028 to lil' buddy basically based on Rick's review on it - and It was a good move although not the tone that I like the most but it got a very good tone, much more boutique amp-like than the tone that the legend had. It should also be louder than the legend because it has more sensitivity - I understand that principle but it turned out that it reduced the head room quite a lot, actually about 2.30 hours anti clockwise and I couldn't get it any louder than the legend was before it started to feedback. This is also understandable.
Does this simply mean that you're not always gonna get more volume by replacing your speaker with the one with more sensitivity? (And not messing with the other parts of the amp)
Mark, if you read this - it's still the same amp. It seems to me like I won't be able to mess with the tone chain and not ruling out the former equation for tone. Input resistor, tone caps, some other things in between, preamp tube and speaker, everytime I change one thing it always seems to start out the new equation. For example, this time if I wanna stick with the lil' buddy I might have to either change the preamp tube from 12ax to ay again, or change the value of the tone caps. Is this what bounds to happen anyway?
Also another question for amp folks, I'm just curious about usable area on your amps volume pot - what number does it start, what number does it end. Is it narrow? Or is it wide? Could you go all the way from nothing to max?
Any input would be appreciated, thanks!
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Rick Davis
2297 posts
Sep 01, 2013
8:12 AM
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Puri, what amp is it?
Yes, if feedback is an issue in your amp a more sensitive speaker will cause it to howl at a lower point on the volume knob, since the amp is now making more sound and reaching the feedback threshold sooner. That is just physics.
You still have to do all the usual anti-feedback things to tame the noise. Try a different room or amp position relative to you, a tighter cup (grip) on the mic, etc. Your amp is louder now, you have to change things up.
The usable sweep of the volume knob depends a lot on the preamp tube in the amp. Greg Heumann has a great explanation of all that on his website. All of my amps have been modified or are custom built, and all of them hit the sweet spot at around the same position on the volume control: around 2 or 3 o'clock position.
Feedback can erupt all over the dial, depending on the room or the mic or my bad technique or the weather or the phases of the moon or for no reason at all.
Keep working with it. Try some different preamp tubes. I like the JAN Philips 5751, which goes for about $35.
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The Blues Harp Amps Blog
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Last Edited by Rick Davis on Sep 01, 2013 8:31 AM
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puri
117 posts
Sep 01, 2013
6:18 PM
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Rick, it's the amp that I made, Mark(5f6h) designed it. It's a 1x10, one input with bright/dark switch, one on/off volume knob.
I probably won't swap the preamp tube this time. I've got a nos Brimar 12ax7 in it and really like it's charactor. I'd prefer to tame the amp to keep it in there. I also have Jan Philips 12ay7 and 5751 and I found that I like the 5751 the least (for this amp).
"all of them hit the sweet spot at around the same position on the volume control: around 2 or 3 o'clock position." Mine was like that too and now it's down to 11-12 o'clock depend on which channel.
Back to the bench I guess.
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Rick Davis
2299 posts
Sep 01, 2013
7:42 PM
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Puri, before you change anything try playing the amp in a different place, maybe outside. I think the amp is just too loud for the place you usually play.
I know that is frustrating. Bruce Collins sent me emails from a customer who ordered a new amp and had almost exactly the same problems you are having: When he played the new amp in his house it howled with feedback where his old smaller amp was fine. He was pretty upset and dissatisfied. Bruce explained it the same way I have here, and a week later the guy was very happy with his new amp.
When I wrote about my amps hitting the nice tone at 2 or 3 o'clock on the volume control I was not talking about playing at home. No way I can get that loud in a small room. I am talking about playing on stage in clubs.
Try taking your amp to a blues jam and see how it sounds. I bet it will sound good.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
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puri
118 posts
Sep 01, 2013
8:24 PM
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I'm not too frustrating actually, I've been messing with this amp on & off for 14 months already and have been through some more frustrating situations than this. I'm more happy with this move so far although I know I'll be happy with the Jensen Jet but I couldn't be bothered shiping something that big right now and I trust your judgement. This is why when I felt the amp needed some upgrade I went with lil' buddy.
It has a classier sound, I like it a lot. I also know that it needs sometimes to break in and a room I tested it was echo-y I just didn't expect that it would reduce headroom that much (it's the same room that I modded and tested the amp over the last year).
"before you change anything try playing the amp in a different place, maybe outside. I think the amp is just too loud for the place you usually play."
Thanks for the advice, I'll hold my itchin' hands till the next gig and see how it goes maybe I could get a video clip or something.
Last Edited by puri on Sep 01, 2013 8:25 PM
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CWinter
63 posts
Sep 01, 2013
8:38 PM
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Hey guys, I don't really know much at all about amps or speakers, but don't all speakers require some time to "break in"? Is a speaker able to handle more volume after it has been broken in?
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Rick Davis
2300 posts
Sep 01, 2013
8:48 PM
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puri, it would be very cool to see a video of the amp. Please do it!
Chris, it is not a matter of the speaker handling the power. It is more about the speaker being slightly louder than the one it replaced and causing some feedback. Breaking it in will probably not change anything with respect to volume and feedback.
Some speakers do break in over time. They loosen up a bit, sounding less stiff with more overtones. I have a lot of experience with the Lil Buddy speakers and they seem to break in quickly.
-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
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arnenym
185 posts
Sep 02, 2013
3:18 PM
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Hi Puri.
When they measure the sensitivity they put in 1 watt in the speaker and put a db meter about 1 meter in front of it. The Lil buddy gives 99,1 db. It's one of the most sensitive speakers you can buy.
You have noticed exactly the right thing. A higher sensivity speaker gives more volume with the amp adjusted exactly the same as it is with a speaker with lower sensitivity.
It's not always a good thing. The Lil' buddy is a mid fokused speaker. It emphasizes the Lo mid / high bass frequenzies. That gives a lot of feedback in some amps. It will be a little brighter after it be breaked in. -After you used it for some hours.
My newly finished 6V6-20W bassman like it a lot.
My Selfsplit amp do not like that speaker at all. Nor do my single end amps. The Alpha or 2x Weber sig8's smooth cone is a lot better for that type of amp circuits.
I do not believe it be good if you change tone cap value. The tone caps in this amp just cut treble and that is just exactly the same as the Lil' Buddy speaker do.
The self split have a quite "buttery-bright" tone that cut through the mix. IMO it's best with brighter and less sensitive speakers.
Last Edited by arnenym on Sep 02, 2013 3:25 PM
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Rick Davis
2302 posts
Sep 02, 2013
3:34 PM
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The Lil Buddy speaker sounds best by itself or in certain combinations with different speakers, particularly with brighter alnico speakers.
The Lil Buddy is awesome in 1x10 amps like the VHT Special 6 or the Mission Delta Sonic. It does not sound nearly as good with two of them in a 2x10 amp. Way too dark. With a P10R or Eminence 1028 it sings.
Bruce Collins had two Lil Buddy speakers in a Bandmaster amp with a P10R, and they just overpowered the alnico. It sounded a lot better with two Jensens and one Lil Buddy.
I think two Lil Buddys sound great in the bottom of a 4x10 Bassman amp.
Here is a video from 3 years ago of the Lil Buddy in my VHT Special 6 amp.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
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Last Edited by Rick Davis on Sep 02, 2013 3:37 PM
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puri
119 posts
Sep 02, 2013
6:56 PM
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Hi Arne, I must have done something differently from the very start then because my amp was very mid low focused when it first finished over a year ago. The first few version paired with the alpha would give you a really crazy bass - if you stand in front of it, it'd feel like you've got an uppercut in your tummy! I finally give up on the alpha and move on to 1028. All the mods that I've done so far was basically to make it hotter/brighter so it could sing more and match my taste.
This is Jon Vaughan playing the amp with the same circuit with 2x1028 the tone(of the amp) is not on the brighter side to my ears. Great tone, great playing(ofcourse).
"My newly finished 6V6-20W bassman like it a lot."
Tell us more about the amp! You've got a clip? It sounds interesting.
@Rick, yeah, I kinda had that impression with the lil' buddy as well - wouldn't use more than one of them in a speaker combination. At the moment I'm happy with it's tone so far - wouldn't have thought that I'll like the dark/warm sounding speaker haha! but I got to see if it'll get better in the real situation though
Last Edited by puri on Sep 02, 2013 7:01 PM
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arnenym
186 posts
Sep 03, 2013
2:19 PM
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Rick. That aint a original VHT. In my original VHT it sounds dull and blurry.
My other SE amps is build to give a lot of bottom. When i used lil buddy it was too much with this very dark speaker.
Maybe i should give it one more shot now after it's used for a couple of hours? Lately it has start to give a very crunchy bottom end.
And finally. As i said above my 6V6 - bassman circuit love Li'l Buddy. Im sure my real Bassman would like one or two as well. IMO the speaker is great in the right amp. There is no speaker who sound good in every amp.
Puri. It could be the fact we use different transformers and they give different voltages on the 6V6's?
Is this the first version of 1028 with papercoil?
The later model with Kapton/Polyamide -1028K is quite darker speakers.
Last Edited by arnenym on Sep 03, 2013 2:30 PM
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Rick Davis
2303 posts
Sep 03, 2013
4:07 PM
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Arnenym, this VHT had a 5751 preamp tube and a JJ 6V6S power tube, and the Lil Buddy speaker. It rocked.
But the biggest improvement in sound came from the speaker swap, by far.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Last Edited by Rick Davis on Sep 03, 2013 4:10 PM
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arnenym
191 posts
Sep 04, 2013
5:44 AM
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Okey. I believed it was this one.
http://bluesharpamps.blogspot.se/2010/11/vht-special-6-harp-amp-project-step-one.html
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5F6H
1661 posts
Sep 04, 2013
10:20 AM
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Hi Puri,
Sometimes more sensitivity will give you a boost in volume (especially if you go from a very low SPL speaker, up to say 95-98db), but often going from "good" sensitivity to "very high" will just change the volume control setting.
If the frequency response of the new speaker (not talking about the L'il Buddy here, just hypothetically) is way off, too bright/dark, then you'll lose ultimate volume, irrespective of sensitivity.
Speakers need bigger/stronger magnets and voice coils to be more sensitive, after a point these things can adversely affect feedback rejection (you can sometimes get round this in a multi-speaker amp by putting the hot speaker out of the way of you mic, in the bottom of the cab).
You're amp will typically only make so much "loudness" (dB), once in the good zone it's swings & roundabouts, regarding sensitivity and pot settings, actual 'on-stage' loudness is the real arbiter.
Some of the loudest harp amps I have heard only needed to be turned to "2" (out of "10"), others with a carefully chosen resistor (accross the working portion of the pot)can have a useful sweep accros a wide range of pot turn...but you have moved the goal posts by adding the resistor, "4" might be the old "2" and the new "8" is the old "3"...if you get my drift? ;-)
A speaker has a massive effect on frequency response & tone, I guess you could theoretically tweak the circuit for every speaker, but it is more usual for the circuit to be the datum & swap speakers... depends on time vs cost I suppose (easy to change a single speaker with good access, but if you have 4x$80 speakers & have to drop the chassis anyway, then changing a circuit component may make more sense *IF* it will do the job)? If the circuit is tuned for frequencies the speaker simply can't reproduce (extreme example, shouldn't be the case for the speakers mentioned), then it won't have any benefit.
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Last Edited by 5F6H on Sep 04, 2013 12:51 PM
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bloozefish
121 posts
Sep 04, 2013
11:01 AM
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Rick,
do you think the Lil Buddy is a good replacement for my 'Zoo II clone? I have a Jensen Italian-made alnico in there now, and not fully pleased.
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Rick Davis
2304 posts
Sep 04, 2013
11:25 AM
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Bloozfish, the honest answer is I don't know. I haven't tried it in that amp.
The Jensen re-issue alnicos are pretty bright by themselves, and have low sensitivity. I'd think they would be a bad match for the Kalamazoo amp.
The original CTS alnico speakers in the Kalamazoo were a good match for it. I'm not sure you can really improve on that.
I think this is a question for Greg Heumann....
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
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bloozefish
123 posts
Sep 04, 2013
2:23 PM
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thanks Arne, I'll check them out.
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Rick Davis
2307 posts
Sep 04, 2013
3:54 PM
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I have the 10-inch Warehouse Veteran 20 in my 1971 Fender Champ. It sounds good, but be warned it crunches like crazy. If that is what you like you will dig this speaker.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
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arnenym
193 posts
Sep 05, 2013
1:14 AM
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Yes. A Fender Champ crunch a lot with that speaker.
I believe a kalamazoo clone with the smoother crunch is a better combination.
A edgy amp is better with a dark speaker as a Alpha 10 or a Lil' Buddy.
That's my 2 cents. But in the end it's a matter of personal taste.
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Rick Davis
2310 posts
Sep 05, 2013
8:05 AM
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Arne, if you look at the photo you will see that the Champ has been modified. Beyond opening the baffle for a 10-inch speaker, it has a 15-watt custom wound Hammond output transformer. If you look to the left of the 6V6 tube you will see a choke in the power supply. It also has Russian MilSpec paper-in-oil caps. It does not really sound like a Champ anymore.
You can listen to the amp with a Weber Vintage alnico speaker (10A125-O) here.
You can listen to the amp with the Warehouse Veteran speaker here.
I had the Eminence Lil Budddy speaker in the amp for a short time too, but took it out when I decided to use it in my Bassman.
The Weber was very good but low efficiency made it sound a little dead.
The Lil Buddy was great; it woke the amp up.
The Warehouse Veteran is a fun crunchy ratty speaker that still sits in the Champ. I like it. I am thinking of changing out the tube rectifier for a Weber Copper Cap to see what that does to the tone.
(UPDATE: I tried the Copper Cap recto and could not hear any difference. I recorded with both rectos and listened to them closely and could not hear any difference.)
The Warehouse Veteran speaker was given to me by blues guitarist Steve Mignano. Steve had the Veteran in his Fender SF Super Reverb but thought it was too raspy so he gave it to me, saying "it crunches like a motherf***er." He was right.
The speaker costs only $41. Heck of a deal if you like the tone.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Last Edited by Rick Davis on Sep 05, 2013 9:20 AM
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