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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Tuning Shenanigans, Reeds Misbehaving
Tuning Shenanigans, Reeds Misbehaving
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Sherwin
76 posts
Aug 06, 2013
8:17 PM
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I made the first pass tuning: two M.B.s and a Manji this evening. I'm satisfied that the reshaping of the reeds has 'stuck' and the two M.B.s were easy enough to tune, not so the Manji, 6 draw, 9blow, and 10 blow all increase frequency with increased breath pressure. Octaves okay only for VERY narrow 'window' of breath pressure
I expect my usual three passes tuning may turn out to be more like five for the Manji.
Anyone out there have a strategy for dealing with this?
P.S. I do what I can to help the tuning settle in on each reed, I play each reed: straight note, bent and overbent several times, warm harp etc. I haven't run into this particular problem in a long time.
Thanks....Sherwin
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arzajac
1122 posts
Aug 06, 2013
9:25 PM
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Tuning a harp wirh your ears and a guitar tuner.
The narrow window is due to both reeds tuned to the same pitch. As you play a note, harder force lowers the pitch and the lower the reed, the greater the effect. Tune the lower reed a little higher so that both reeds' itch evens out at regular breath force.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Aug 06, 2013 9:37 PM
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Sherwin
77 posts
Aug 07, 2013
3:26 AM
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Arzajac please reread my post I'm talking about frequency increasing with increased breath force.
Sherwin
Last Edited by Sherwin on Aug 07, 2013 3:29 AM
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arzajac
1123 posts
Aug 07, 2013
5:00 AM
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Sherwin: I suspect your embouchure. When that happens to me, I realize that I am tensing up - usually because I've had enough. You can only do so much tuning before you start to be less effective.
Try doing it on purpose. Play the notes of the upper octave and tighten your embouchure. On some keys in the upper octave, I can squeeze ten cents this way.
If I find I'm doing it a lot, I quit and come back to it the next day. Every now and then I'll pick up a harp the next day and find it's way out of tune. Either I didn't warm it up enough or I was tense when I worked on it.
Having a strobe tuner helps pick up on these sort of things. But if you trust your ears, you can get by without it. It also helps when you can double-check a note; if you tune the 4 to match the 1 blow and then tune the 7 to match the 4, move on to the 7-10 octave. If the octave beats, I would work on correcting the 10 since the 7 has just been double-checked. And if the 7 suddenly starts to read a different pitch, you can play the 4-7 octave again to prove to yourself that it is where it should be (and you shouldn't trust the number the tuner is reading).
Does that help? I have not noticed that Manji reeds - or any other company - behave differently than any other reeds.
My tuning skills fluctuate with the time of day and how tired I am, but the laws of physics are almost always constant.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
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MP
2884 posts
Aug 07, 2013
1:37 PM
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It is a common problem for short, high pitched reeds to read sharper on your tuner w/ increased breath pressure.
Use very light breath to zero it in. plink often but be careful not to snap or knock the gap out. Then blow harder and see if it goes sharp. tune it flatter..BUT just a hair. then try both lighter and heavier pressure. eventually, and it may take overnight or longer, the reed will read properly. a perfect match on the split octave; say four and seven-, and, providing we are working with blow reeds is the best test. be sure to go back and forth on the split octave test. your higher reed is supposed to be a bit sharper than its lower reed counterpart as a matter of course.
EDIT just read Andrews post. What he said. :-)
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
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Last Edited by MP on Aug 07, 2013 1:39 PM
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Sherwin
78 posts
Aug 07, 2013
3:35 PM
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Thanks Arzajac, and MP for responding. Thank you Arzajac for the article you provided a link to in your reply (I only really started to enjoy tuning after trying the technique you described when you first shared it on the forum).
Yes it's the individual reed on its own (not in relation to another reed an octave lower) sharpening fifteen to twenty-five cents from gentle through moderate to somewhat hard breath pressure.
I remember encountering this twice before, tuning two different harps.
I guess it just "is what it is" when you have a reed that wants to sharpen the harder you blow/draw. The breath pressure sweet spot of no beating playing octaves will be that much smaller when the pitch change of the two reeds is going in OPPOSITE directions with changing breath force.
Cheers both, back to my harps.
Sherwin
Last Edited by Sherwin on Aug 07, 2013 3:37 PM
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