SmokeJS
131 posts
Jul 19, 2013
3:33 PM
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Iceman, I'd take a Skype lesson or two but no camera. I'm looking at a new PC, iPad or TV that might correct that but it's not going to happen in the immediate future.
I've been practicing bending vocal articulations recommended by a wide variety of teachers including Barrett, Yerxa, Portnoy and Gindick. But I'm still struggling with the 3 draw bends. Sure, I can get there on harps down to G but the sound quality tends to be squawky and the whole step bend can be hard to find.
I read your post saying: "The spots are the ones that your tongue touches (or points towards) when you say "T" "D" "Rrr" "K" and "GUH." Can you clarify this for me as the sounds are a bit different from other teachers? Here's what I might have assumed but after further reflection my assumptions seem inaccurate!
T and D: no bend
Rrr: half step bend
K: whole step bend
GUH: 1 1/2 step bend
Last Edited by SmokeJS on Jul 19, 2013 3:38 PM
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The Iceman
1026 posts
Jul 19, 2013
5:17 PM
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SmokeJS...
You are not getting the complete picture.
Since bending has been so invisible and nebulous (just keep at it and you'll eventually get it), I've developed a way to actually quantify the technique using target spots - something to aim for consistently.
The "T", "D", "K", etc., when spoken cause your tongue to touch spots on the roof of your mouth, starting with where the front teeth and hard pallet meet on down towards the back of the mouth roof chamber.
By arching your tongue and aiming for these spots, you redirect the air flow up and over the tongue which instigates the reed to bend.
Everyone is different and everyone will pick and choose their own target areas.
The above is a beginning template to work towards this understanding.
It is by no means the end result guarantee - as you suggest T and D - no bend, Rrrr half step, etc.
Don't look for the quick answer. Start to experiment and become aware of where exactly your tongue arches. Once you decide your own target spot for each note created through your inhale bending technique, all you need do is set up the curve exactly where you want it, inhale, and - bingo - exact note or pitch every time.
Do this gently . Don't suck the air in.
Don't forget to always keep the throat muscles gently engaged in that pre-yawn attitude to allow the largest chamber possible for best resonance.
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Jul 19, 2013 5:30 PM
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Greg Heumann
2272 posts
Jul 19, 2013
7:36 PM
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When I had been playing for about a year and thought I was pretty good (I wasn't) - I went to one of Dave Barrett's early Harmonica Masterclass seminars. That's how I met Dave, in fact. I remember sitting with a fellow in the lobby between sessions - he was much more of a veteran. He said "your bends will get better for years."
Now that many years have gone by, I can tell you with certainty - he was right.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
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The Iceman
1027 posts
Jul 20, 2013
3:50 AM
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Greg's comment is exactly why I developed this new approach to bending.
As I teach it to beginning students, I was actually surprised to find that all who understand this "target point" concept will bend to consistent pitch within 2 weeks....something that took me a lot longer to learn on my own using the ol' "keep at it for years and you'll eventually get it" approach.
I used to want to only teach advanced players, but now prefer beginners (especially those that have never picked up a harmonica before), because they are a clean slate - a good litmus test for how well innovative concepts really work.
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The Iceman
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SmokeJS
132 posts
Jul 20, 2013
4:04 AM
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The assistance is much appreciated. If I take one thing away from this conversation it's persevere but don't try to force either the overall result or any individual bend.
My guess is some practice without a harp might be beneficial in order to get the tongue even more used to the necessary movement. Can I confirm one thing? Do most of your students find the order of T D Rrr K then GUH to be the best for moving the tongue further back?
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The Iceman
1028 posts
Jul 20, 2013
6:44 PM
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Smoke...
All the students get it when I work with them in person.
These are target spots .. pretend you take a sharpee and make a small "x" on the roof of your mouth for each of these spots that your tongue touches.
When I work with students, I demonstrate with visual hand movements how the tongue looks and how it creates a "lump" and rolls or moves it back and forth at your command.
Then we talk about placement, or where to "aim" that lump you create in your tongue toward specific target spots on the roof of the mouth.
This doesn't mean that the tongue is actually touching the roof of the mouth, but merely pointing that lump at these spots.
The movement is very similar to what your tongue does during whistling when you go from a high pitch down to a lower one.
Try whistling and make that sound of a bomb falling from the old cartoons - pay attention to what your tongue does.
Now, connect the dots, aim the tongue curve at consistant target spots as you gently inhale. You should find the sweet spots that create the bend - most control with minimum tongue movement.
Too hard to convey through typing, but in person very easy to demonstrate and teach how.
The Iceman
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FMWoodeye
760 posts
Jul 20, 2013
9:15 PM
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Yes, whistling. I was somewhat of a virtuoso whistler, and it helped me out a lot...lips, tongue, air direction.
I was afraid to mention it until now.
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SmokeJS
133 posts
Jul 21, 2013
5:08 AM
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The assistance is most appreciated. Hope to be able to repay one day. I'm going to work on the whistling analogy. The approach will be to dive bomb whistle exhaling then try to reproduce, though it won't be a whistle, while inhaling. Picking out spots to hit shouldn't be too much of a problem as I'm getting bends now but their quality varies considerably from bend to bend on any one harp and the quality also varies between harps of different keys.
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The Iceman
1029 posts
Jul 21, 2013
6:23 AM
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A final suggestion to Smoke....
Don't try to mix all your teacher's concepts together. May cause confusion.
Try picking just one approach and spend time with that.
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The Iceman
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The Iceman
1031 posts
Jul 21, 2013
1:56 PM
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FMWoodeye...
Since you were a virtuoso whistler, ever heard Ron McCroby?
He whistled jazz a la Charlie Parker. Called his instrument the "Puckolo".
Used to tour with jazz trio in the 80's. Saw him in Detroit at Baker's Keyboard Lounge. Have his recording on cassette somewhere in a box. Here's a film about Ron.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jBwPBRvaoM
Talk about inspiring.
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Jul 21, 2013 1:58 PM
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Goldbrick
235 posts
Jul 22, 2013
7:49 AM
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Very helpful Iceman. Nice to be able to put an order to things that need to become instinctive. Thanks
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Rubes
733 posts
Jul 22, 2013
5:16 PM
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yes the whistling thing......helps with pitch, use of diaphragm, and always makes people wonder if you know something they don't!!!
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Dads in Space at Reverbnation
Old Man Rubes at Reverbnation
Benny and Rubes at Reverbnation
Last Edited by Rubes on Jul 22, 2013 5:18 PM
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mlefree
107 posts
Jul 24, 2013
11:36 AM
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I didn't want to take a detour from Iceman's teaching, but the subject of whistling came up. I'm big on whistling both on its own merits as well as a means to teach students about resonance.
It so happens that Steve Baker, who needs no introduction, just recently posted a Youtube video on bending that I think is excellent. He is very articulate and definitely knows from whence he speaks.
I thought his video might be helpful here, especially since it features whistling prominently.
Michelle
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SilverWingLeather.com
email: mlefree@silverwingleather.com
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SmokeJS
134 posts
Jul 25, 2013
9:36 AM
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Thanks for posting Michelle. The point made about moving the soft plate back in addition to moving the tongue up and back has already proven to resonate with me. It seems to have encouraged me to do a bit more in the back of my throat. Already had much more success with the elusive 3 draw whole step bend. Steve Baker may not need introduction to many others but I'll have to do some research.
Last Edited by SmokeJS on Jul 25, 2013 9:38 AM
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mlefree
112 posts
Jul 25, 2013
11:58 AM
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Smoke, I'm no authority on Steve Baker but here are a few tidbits:
- wrote the 1st definitive, "technical" book on blues harp in 1989: The Harp Handbook
- Brit by birth but he's lived in Germany for decades.
- Key consultant for Hohner Harmonicas forever.
- Spokesman in the Hohner Harmonica Workshop Series of video lessons on how to use their repair toolkit (excellent, BTW).
- Designed the famous Hohner SBS Special 14-hole diatonics with their special tuning (now also available as the Seydel Blues Solist Pro 12-hole).
- Organizer of many harmonica workshops and participant in many more.
- Plays in many musical groups, often touring Europe.
- Pretty much "the man about town" in terms of serious blues harp both in Europe and Stateside.
- Often appears at harmonica gatherings and is a very approachable and friendly guy. Introduce yourself, start a conversation about harps and fasten your seatbelt! :)
- Steve Baker News
Thanks,
Michelle
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SilverWingLeather.com
email: mlefree@silverwingleather.com
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