rainman
96 posts
Jul 09, 2013
7:48 AM
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I have a chance to snag a really clean Fender Musicmaster Bass amp year 1974 and wonder if anyone has any experience with this amp. What I do know is that it has a 12" speaker a 12ax7 and 2 6v6's.
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HawkeyeKane
1863 posts
Jul 09, 2013
8:05 AM
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I have experience with one. Buddy of mine has one. They run about 26 watts. They actually made two variants of this amp. The first ones ran on 6AQ5 power tubes, then the later ones were switched to 6V6's. But 6AQ5's and 6V6's are the same electrically, just with a different pinbase. My friend's is a 6AQ5 version.
It makes a nice amp for harp. Nothing extravagant, but decent. Very simple controls. The Musicmaster is the closest Fender equivalent to my Alamo Fury that I can come up with, but the Musicmaster is much lighter in weight. If I had a chance at a clean one for a bargain price, I'd jump on it. Depending on what effects or EQ's you put in front of the amp, it could churn out a very nice sound for you.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Rick Davis
2080 posts
Jul 09, 2013
8:39 AM
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26 watts from two cathode biased 6V6 tubes?? I don't think so. The amp makes 12 watts.
I've been interested in this amp for years because I've owned and liked several Fender silverface amps, but never this one. Questions about the amp have come up from time to time on Harp-L and other online forums but the amp does not seem to get a lot of love from the blues harp community.
Still, I'd like to try it.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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rainman
97 posts
Jul 09, 2013
8:42 AM
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Thanks kinda what I've been hearing about it Rick. It clean and $300.00 doesn't buy much, but not sure I need it. Thanks both of you for you help.
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HawkeyeKane
1864 posts
Jul 09, 2013
8:58 AM
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@Rick
26W is what Fender claims, and if they ARE cathode biased, then Fender lied. But then it wouldn't be the first time. I dunno why so many tube driven bass amps from that era were cathode biased anyways. Just made for an even more lacking output on something that needed to be heard.
But I CAN tell you right now, the one I played through put out more than 12 watts. I've played 12W tubers before, and no 12W amp could've filled the room the way that one did.
@rainman
$300 might be a little steep. I was thinking more in the neighborhood of two Benjamins.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Rick Davis
2081 posts
Jul 09, 2013
9:17 AM
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Tim- Fender Amp Field Guide
One interesting thing about the amp is that is does not use a tube for phase inverter, it uses an interstage transformer. As I said, I'd like to try it.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Last Edited by Rick Davis on Jul 09, 2013 9:31 AM
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HawkeyeKane
1865 posts
Jul 09, 2013
9:32 AM
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Rick- Fender Silverface Musicmaster Bass|Ampwares
Looks like we could both be right on this. From the discussion in the comments, looks like the difference could be made up by swaps to the transformers and input circuitry. And you're right about the PI detail. My Fury is the other way around. Uses an AX7 PI, and the preamp is solid state. Output is higher, but then 7868's are noval versions of 7591's.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Rick Davis
2082 posts
Jul 09, 2013
9:37 AM
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Uh, no, the amp makes 12 watts. Hot-rodding the power transformer (at significant cost when compared to the value of the amp) will not get you anywhere near 26 watts.
Rainman, for the $300 you were thinking of spending on this amp you could get a new VHT Special 6 combo or a nice used Fender Pro Jr. There are actually some good choices in that range.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Last Edited by Rick Davis on Jul 09, 2013 9:41 AM
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MUDHOUND
19 posts
Jul 09, 2013
9:41 AM
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The Musicmaster with the 6V6's is the one to own. And yeah, 12 watts. It's like a Champ with a 12".
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Rick Davis
2083 posts
Jul 09, 2013
9:44 AM
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Mudhound, yes, it looks like a Champ. The first time I saw one I asked the owner, "What's up with the tall Champ?" But a Champ has one 6V6 and makes 5 watts. The circuit is WAY different, and I suspect the sound is as well.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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HawkeyeKane
1866 posts
Jul 09, 2013
9:52 AM
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+1 on Rick's suggestion of the Pro Junior. It's an EL84 amp which makes for a different kind of tone than a 6V6 amp. But there are mods out there to make them more harp friendly, and the output will be higher than the VHT.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on Jul 09, 2013 9:52 AM
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timeistight
1286 posts
Jul 09, 2013
10:31 AM
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Where did Fender claim 26 watts for any twin 6V6 amp?
There was a Bassman 20 that delivered 18 watts from a pair of 6V6 tubes, just like the Super Champ and Champ II, but that wasn't until the last CBS years under Paul Rivera, i.e., the early '80s.
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HawkeyeKane
1868 posts
Jul 09, 2013
10:46 AM
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"Where did Fender claim 26 watts for any twin 6V6 amp?"
Well I had been under the impression that Ampwares (which, just like the Field Guide, is run by Mojotone) would be reliable enough to get, at the very least, their Fender data straight from the horse's mouth. Guess I set my expectations to high.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on Jul 09, 2013 10:46 AM
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MUDHOUND
20 posts
Jul 09, 2013
2:57 PM
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>Rainman, for the $300 you were thinking of spending on this amp you could get a new VHT Special 6 combo or a nice used Fender Pro Jr. There are actually some good choices in that range.<
I guarantee that the Musicmaster amp will hold it's resale value far better than either one of these. $300 isn't a terrible deal, but it would be a better deal at $250.
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jimr
49 posts
Jul 09, 2013
5:17 PM
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I sold my 6v6 version a few months ago.
It runs low power tube plate voltages and is cathode biased so 12 W may be an overestimate.
It is easy to service and replace the filter caps as they are mounted on the eyelet board instead of in a multicap can.
I did some cap subs to try to boost the low end, redid the input circuit to more standard Fender specs and tried some different speakers. Overall about B+ grade for harmonica. Pretty good brown tone but not much presence or volume. The cab is kind of narrow and shallow and may be a handicap. The output tranny secondaries are connected to the speaker with spade connectors so it is less convenient to try different cabs than other Fenders. The VHT Special 6 sounds better to me.
Jim R
Jim
Last Edited by jimr on Jul 09, 2013 5:18 PM
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Goldbrick
231 posts
Jul 09, 2013
6:08 PM
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I had one. It was a one owner job with the original tubes. It was ok for guitar -sounded pretty good with my Fender Mustang. Kinda muddy with Gibsons
Ebayed it for $300 to a guy in Cleveland . Never really used it for harp. If it wasnt so ungainly looking with its tall profile maybe I would have liked it better.
Ended up using the money and another$50 for a Princeton Recording which I love
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MP
2821 posts
Jul 09, 2013
7:46 PM
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This is a good harp amp. It is basically a Princeton with a larger speaker.
when CBS bought Fender around 1970? it believe.. some of the silverface amps still retained blackface specs.
i think '74 they might have done the change over completely but silverface '70s Fender amps still freakin rock!!! i swear by the 1972 Princeton. Sold it to MBH member/next door nieghbor MojoKane. HE LOVES IT! Me too. Shoulda never let it go.
It's 12 watts RMS. if you used a 10" ceramic jensen or similar, you'd have a Princeton
Edit- the Fender Champs of that era are one 12ax7,one 6v6, an 8" ceramic speaker, and roughly 8 watts RMS.
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name [MP] for info-
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Last Edited by MP on Jul 09, 2013 7:49 PM
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jimr
50 posts
Jul 10, 2013
6:13 AM
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I think the circuit differences between a MMB and Princeton (non reverb) ARE significant. MMB is cathode bias, tranformer phase inverter, solid state rectifier, single tone control. Princeton is fixed bias, split load phase inverter, tube rectifier, treble/(fixed mid)/bass tone control, with tremolo.
Jim R
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MP
2825 posts
Jul 10, 2013
11:07 AM
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i've never owned a Princeton Reverb. I've owned two non reverb jobs. the first i bought on Lay-a-way. Remember Lay-a-way? oh, never mind.
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name [MP] for info-
repair videos on YouTube.
you can reach me via Facebook. Mark Prados
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