Yeah...the video is a bit shrill and harsh. After I stopped recording, I turned the tone down from 6 to 3, and switched to a G harp. It was very warm indeed. Unfortunately, my camera battery died and I couldn't get a shot of that. ----------
Mine was in great shape and had just been "gone through." I own a tweed deluxe and it sounds just awesome. I have never seen any other harp player use a vibrolux. Maybe its the vibrato wiring that makes it less harp friendly, I dunno......
Last Edited by 6SN7 on May 31, 2013 4:32 AM
I've never played through a Tweed Deluxe, but I HAVE played through a Lectrolab R500, which is the same circuit as a Tweed Deluxe, and it's absolutely bitchin'! ----------
A 1960 Tweed Vibrolux is essentially a Fender Harvard amp with tremolo. I've played both amps, and they didn't sound anything like the one in this video. Is something wrong with it? Does it have the original Jensen P10R speaker?
I've also played both amps as well, and it sounds like there was work done on this amp done by an amp tech who has next to nothing in knowledge on how to properly work on any vintage amps and if the amp owner takes a vintage amp to most instrument stores that DON'T specialize in vintage amps with a vintage amp tech on duty, that's a red flag right there and that's always asking for trouble.
As Rick points out, there may be a speaker other than the original P10R Jensen, but also if the speaker had work done on it, it's not uncommon for most speaker repair places to use whatever is on hand and often times it's gonna be the wrong stuff, be it the speaker paper, voice coil, glue as well as the glueing technique and a slight difference changes EVERYTHING!!!
Other things that can happen are when the point to point wiring gets messed with, rather than using the cloth covered SOLID core wire that was originally used on all tweed amps, they may be using cloth covered STRANDED wire, or plastic jacked stranded wire, and that also makes some pretty dramatic changes in the sound as well.
Using the wrong filter caps, and those tweed Fenders used Astrons and the only one that should be used outside of an NOS Astron is one of the Allen Bradley ones mades to the original specs.
The tube configuration put in there can adversely affect it and even the correct tube numbers from different manufacturers will also alter the sound, both positively as well as negatively.
On myb real '59 Bassman that I still have and use that I bought in 1983, the guitar player in my band at the time was also a vintage amp tech (and owned his own vintage amp and guitar store), when I needed a cap job, he got NOS Astrons so that the sound stayed the same as it was brand new. In 1988, the original P10R Jensens blew out and finding speaker repair places that had the original speaker paper was almost impossible to find back then (remember, no internet help then, PLUS the Bassman RI wasn't out back then and Eminence hadn't made the speakers for them yet, which uses the CORRECT speaker paper), and the closest thing to them was a set of 25 watt Celestions that's still in the amp (and these speakers haven't been in production for 10 years). ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
From what I could tell, the amp looked mostly original. The one obvious departure was the blackface vinyl strap handle. Other than that, the cabinet appeared to be in good shape. The vibrato was not functioning, and I didn't get a look at the speaker in person, but from the pics on the listing, it damn well COULD be the original Jensen. From what I understand, the amp sat unused in a basement for an unknown number of years and was purchased in an estate sale. Caps could be leaky....could be a failing tube....the output cut out intermittently as well. A Fonzie smack would get it working periodically, but then the cab resonance would shake whatever it was loose again and it'd cut out. Maybe a tube pin or OT lead....
But as I said, when I adjusted the tone after that little vid was shot, the balls of the amp came out very nicely (no pun intended), and I could discern some natural sustain from the amp as well. I imagine my camera's mic was a factor as well in the video.
Suffice it to say, the amp needs some TLC by someone with reliable experience in vintage Fenders. If Skip got his hands on it, I imagine this sucker would be golden. But even with its existing peccadillos, it's a pretty rare specimen these days. It's probably worth it to someone who's not willing to pay out the nose for a new Eric Clapton Tremolux. I can see why it's fetching a considerable bidding. ----------
Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on May 31, 2013 10:47 AM
Hawkeye, a failing tube is something that is important that you point out here and something I left out in my assessment. Under those conditions you've mentioned, that's no surprise here.
Just to make a point about having the right vintage amp tech doing the work on an old classic amp like that, here's an experience I want to let you know about.
In 1983, I had a real pre-CBS Super Reverb (a real McCoy 1965) that I bought from the original owner of the amp who actually had bought it brand new in '65, but rarely played it and it was in his bedroom for the entire time (basements can really croak an amp if left in there too long), and was one of the standard amps for harp back in the day, but I still wanted a Bassman, but to get that amp, I had to sell it so that I could afford the Bassman (sold it to a guitar player friend of mine for the exact same price I paid for it in 1977, $300.00 US).
About 2 years after I sold that amp (had I knew how the vintage amp market would go nuts, I would've loved to have been able to keep it, as I would have made a fortune on that amp), and he took it to an amp tech in one of the larger musical instrument stores in the area, which had its own repair shop.
That guitar player told me the shop ruined the amp and so he had to spend several hundred dollars worth in repairs going to a vintage amp specialist, who restored the amp to the way it was supposed to be, and what that other tech did was that he used the wrong wiring, the wrong caps and did several unwanted hot rodding mods which he despised.
If he knew about getting the right amp tech, he would've saved hundreds in unneeded work.
In those tweed Fenders, those caps would be Astrons, but if you're gonna replace them, Allen Bradley is the only one making them in the CORRECT specification and anything else would drastically alter the sound in a way that usually winds up sounding like crap. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Yes, I probably should have made those points known abroad earlier on. I didn't for two reasons. The first is simply because the first few short posts in the thread, I made on my phone. It's not easy to make a long post typing on a small touchscreen. The second reason is because I didn't want to explicitly advertise deficiancies in the amp, just considering the seller was kind enough to allow me to play on the amp while it was up for bids. Yes, he posted it "selling as-is", but I still didn't want a lot of bad publicity flying around about the listing while the bidding was still relatively fresh. Doesn't look like it would've made much difference anyways. The bidding is at $1,525 with a day and nine hours to go yet. LOL
But I'll pass along your recommendations of an experienced amp tech and the correct capacitor specs to the seller so he can make mention of it in the listing. Whoever gets this thing will want to get her working to her best original specs.
EDIT: Okay, it's back at $932. But it was $1525 shortly ago. Must've been a bid that got cancelled. ----------
Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on Jun 01, 2013 8:30 AM
The Fender Harvard is essentially the tweed Vibrolux without the tremolo. The Mission Delta Sonic amp is based on the Harvard, with the same basic design: two 6V6 tubes (but cathode biased), 10-inch speaker, etc. The Delta Sonic does have bigger transformers (same as a Deluxe Reverb) and a couple other tweaks but Harvard owners have remarked about how much it sounds like the original amp.
I was thinking the tweed Vibrolux would sound more like this:
I am not surprised. I sold one for a 2 large about 5 years ago on Craigslist to a collector in Alabama. It too had no foot pedal.
I had thought my Vibrolux would have sounded like a smaller Deluxe. I think others do too and go for it as a cost alternative to a Deluxe as they can run in the 3K rage for one in original shape.
@superbee. I can't say that for all vintage tweed Deluxes, but the one I have is great for harp, with no tube swaps. The only work every done to it was by Skip Simmons and he replaced only what needed to be replaced. I use two different speakers, the original and another period correct Jensen alnico, both have been re-coned by Ron Neal. What BBQ Bob says above is very very wise advice and to be careful who you get to work on your amps. The experience he mentions is similar to what happen to my 59 Bassman and was the issue when I got the Vibrolux. They both had been serviced, but the results were that they were now great guitar amps, less so for harp. It's one of the reasons I am done with vintage amps and stopped buying them about 15 years ago. Let's face it, today, a real vintage amp averages 50 years old, the speaker cone is usually shot, there are some leaky caps, the cord needs to be changed or it has had an "overhaul" done years ago that has to be redone. No fun.
Last Edited by 6SN7 on Jun 03, 2013 6:23 AM
