stikhon
4 posts
Dec 12, 2009
12:37 PM
|
Does anybody know what is the techique which Tom Ball calls "wind redirection" is his Sourcebook of Sonny Terry Licks. The book does not explain what it is.
|
Ryan
44 posts
Dec 13, 2009
8:43 PM
|
I don't have the book, so I can't tell you for sure, but I would guess when he's refering to changing the direction of breath all he's talking about is going from blow notes(blowing out) to draw notes(breathing in) or vice versa.
|
nacoran
526 posts
Dec 13, 2009
9:41 PM
|
Or he might be talking about how you shape your mouth. On different notes you may be blowing air through at a slightly different angle to the hole.
Sorin- I keep trying to do circular breathing. I managed to do it by accident once on stage. It probably kept me from passing out! I can do the part where you make the sound with your tongue instead of breathing but I can't do it while I'm breathing. I can barely pat my head and rub my tummy at the same time.
Stikhon- could you give us the actual quote so we can see it in context?
|
saregapadanisa
9 posts
Dec 14, 2009
4:24 AM
|
I am not sure of what Tom ball calls "wind redirection", but it may be related to a technique used by Sebastien Charlier that he calls "Air Block". Using his hands position (don't ask me how)to redirect wind, he plays draw and blow notes AT THE SAME TIME.
Sebastien Charlier is a devilishly amazing musician ; you can check his website http://www.sebcharlier.com.
He describes "Air Block" under "FAQ tech". Unfortunately for you guys, it's in french. But you can still Google Translate it or, if needed, I will translate it for you (although I'm not sure I will do a better job).
And yes, after reading, He refers to Sonny Terry. So, that must be it.
|
MrVerylongusername
691 posts
Dec 14, 2009
4:40 AM
|
It's also mentioned on the myquill site, under "Back pressure chords" http://www.angelfire.com/tx/myquill/DiatonicTechniques.html
There's a real audio clip too. I'd not heard of this before and now I'm really intrigued!
|
CJames
67 posts
Dec 14, 2009
7:06 AM
|
when I hear wind redirection i think of overblows
|
dfwdlg
81 posts
Dec 14, 2009
7:51 AM
|
Makes me think of rapid use of diaghram to change from blow to draw or vice versa.
Can you provide some of the surrounding sentences for context?
|
saregapadanisa
10 posts
Dec 14, 2009
8:41 AM
|
What Sebastien Charlier says on his web site (http://www.sebcharlier.com/faq_tech.php) :
"...Anyone could have made the experience, depending of the tightness of your instrument and the position of your closed hands, that it is possible to produce some sound due to the the air re-entering the harmonica backside. That technique is not new, and pionneers like Sonny Terry may have already used it some decades ago, probably limited to the possibity of playing a high blow note while drawing on the lower octave.
The purpose of AIR BLOCK is to manage and control the continuous flow of air while drawing or blowing. It enables you to hear draw and blow notes simultaneously... It is thus possible to generate chords undoable otherwise, second voices, variable drones, new sounds, etc...
As exemples, you can play the 5 blow and hear 5 blow AND 1 draw ; draw a 456 chord and hear the 1 blow (Dm/C or D/C for lydian, meaning Dm7 or D7) : tongue block 1-3 blow and hear a 6 draw ; play a 456 blow chord and hear a 1 draw And a 9 blow (C11 without the 7th) ; overblow on 1 AND hear 5 and 6 draw (Eb on a lydian) . Easier and useful : 123 blow AND hear 7 draw (Cmaj7).
...
(translation is mine, sorry for the approximations)
|
nacoran
528 posts
Dec 14, 2009
8:20 PM
|
I've done something similar to that with a couple harps, I think. What I did was probably the beginners version. You need a fairly airtight harp, and having the back opened up might actually be a disadvantage. Basically you block the back opening of the harmonica with your hand (probably the index finger and middle finger works best.) Then you blow a note (usually down near the bottom) and some of the air comes back out the top. It seems to help if you block a bunch of holes with your face! You angle the harp up against your cheek so you block a bunch of the holes in between. This forces enough air back through the top hole or holes to get a tone. You could probably do it better with a tongue block.
|
stikhon
5 posts
Dec 15, 2009
1:30 AM
|
Thanks a lot for answers! I'll check out Sebastien and the angelfire link is awesome (in fact I remember Steve Baker mentioned the back-pressure chords in one of his masterclasses as well).
Tom Ball mentioned the wind re-direction in lick #30 of Source Book of Sonny Terry licks. In fact I learned the lick note-for-note and still don't understand what he meant by this. I guess it's simply alternate 2-draw and 3-blow (as they are the same note).
When I asked the question I had something else in mind - the technique which John Popper and LD Miller are using for super-fast passages in the top range of the harp. I suspect Sugar Blue uses that a lot as well.
Bertram Becher from Seydel told me about techniques which does not involve either lungs or diaphragm whatsoever. The air that's already in the mouth is quickly sucked in and out by fast movement of musles below the tongue. I've never seen this in any instructional material - must be another well-kept secret :-)
In my country we call this "hedgehog breathing" - the same technique is used to imitate hedgehogs when we play with small children.
|
nacoran
533 posts
Dec 15, 2009
11:27 AM
|
Stikhon- The way you do the tongue technique so you don't use your lungs is either by using your cheeks a bit for a puff and clicking your tongue up and down like you were going to make that tongue click noise some people make. If you get really good at it you can sneak a breath while you are playing in just one direction. So, for instance, you can be playing a sustained blow note and sneak a little air in, or a sustained draw and push some extra air out. Theoretically, it lets you sustain a note as long as you want. That's full blown circular breathing. The first step is the tongue click thing though. There is a good video youtube explaining it. I'll try to find it later. The first step makes you sound kind of like an angry beehive!
|
nacoran
534 posts
Dec 15, 2009
3:30 PM
|
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41WtX5hVOqg
|
stikhon
6 posts
Dec 16, 2009
11:35 AM
|
Thanks for the link - cool video! That's a bit different topic though - I guess the use of circular breathing is rather limited. The only use I can think of is a long sustained note (over the whole 12-bar block or so) - but first this is an exhale note (not used much in blues) and second you can't put any stabla vibrato on it.
BTW, I took a couple of didjeridoo lessons in Sydney and Amsterdam - but never got any good at this technique.
|
nacoran
546 posts
Dec 16, 2009
12:26 PM
|
stikhon- you can use circular breathing for blow notes or draw notes. You can add vibrato with your hands.
|
GutoSantana
4 posts
Jan 21, 2014
3:03 PM
|
Hi,Nacoran!
Please can you explain how to use circular breathing to play DRAW notes??
Thanks!
----------
G.S. {::::}
|
WinslowYerxa
489 posts
Jan 21, 2014
4:35 PM
|
This is a technique that I've written about over the last 20 years at various times. I call it AIR RECIRCULATION. And yes, you can hear it on some of Sonny Terry's records.
If you cup a harp tightly - and the harp does not have vents in the covers (like a Marine Band) then you can do this.
Cup the harp tightly and play a draw chord at the left end of the harp. Normally, the air you pull through the reeds would come from the air behind the harp. But that source of air is blocked off, so the only place it can come from is the front of the harp, THROUGH THE HIGH BLOW REEDS. So you hear the hight blow reeds sound at the same time as the low draw reeds.
This technique works on both draw and blow chords, and you can do it with your mouth on either end of the harp.
Some players use the right hand thumb to selectively block off some of the recirculation holes.
One some harmonicas, you can get recirculation chords going by playing a single note, while blocking the notes to the left with your cheek.
----------
Winslow
|
didjcripey
682 posts
Jan 22, 2014
1:58 AM
|
Its not when you lift one cheek up off the chair to direct your wind in a particular direction?
----------
Lucky Lester
|
GMaj7
338 posts
Jan 22, 2014
3:39 AM
|
Winslow is right on the money.
I knew nothing about this technique until I saw and heard it demonstrated at SPAH 2012 by Seydel's Bertram Belcher.
He said that it occasionally happens inadvertently and that is the real reason for vented sides although not intending to open up historical debate on that topic.
Very interesting and it appears that from Sebastian's explanation, I could actually play a Gmaj7 which is even cooler!!
----------
Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
|
