Most of these amps were hybrid amps that had a solid state preamp with power tube outputs and anything with solid state made prior to the late 90's largely ain't worth a damn for harp in my experience. The very first year they came out were entirely tube including the preamp, and I've met some harp players who had OK (but clearly NOT great) luck with them, but as a general rule, regardless of the volume of these amps, they were usually terrible and never really came close to a real vintage sound at all, just looked vintage. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
"anything with solid state made prior to the late 90's largely ain't worth a damn for harp in my experience."
As I stated in the other thread pertaining to this amp, my Alamo Fury is similar in design to this (ie-SS preamp with power tubes). The preamp can result in a lackluster tone for harp, but that can be remedied with a tube preamp of some kind like a Harp Attack or a simple Tube MP.
Peavey has never seemed to have the engineering forte to produce tube amps of Fender or Marshall caliber. There are a few gems of theirs that I love dearly, like the Delta Blues and the ValveKing, and the old Valverb is one helluva rack unit. Their prowess has always seemed to be in solid state devices like modeling amps and PA's.
Hartley Peavey made a lot of good, functional, durable, road worthy gear. sort of an early Leo Fender approach.
i've never had luck w/ his amps for harp. i know he makes a bullet type harp mic.
true story- i saw Duke Robbillard in concert playing his guitar through a powered Peavey PA head with (it appeared to be) Peavey speakers. it was his guitar rig and unrelated to the main PA system. ---------- MP affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name [MP] for info- repair videos on YouTube. you can reach me via Facebook. Mark Prados
MP, indeed they did. Peavey made good solid cheap gear that allowed lots of 70s and 80s head-bangers to equip their bands. Peavey gear was best known for one thing: LOUD!
Like you, I've never had luck getting Peavey amps to sound good for harp. Some of their amps can be adequate -- like the the Delta Blues amps -- but they just never get to that good place in harp tone.
Every time I get a few dollars ahead and start shopping around for another amp, as I am looking at all those $450-650 Fenders, another damn $150 Peavey turns up. I've got 3 of them. 2 of them are 100% tube and the other is one of those S/S Pre-amp, 130 watt tube power amps playing through 2 12" Scorpions.
Mic choice is a big part of getting a Peavey to work for harp. On the S/S pre-amp models you can go ahead and Ebay all of you bullet mics. If you are hoping for the Little Walter sound you can Ebay the amp as well. If you want to play Sonny Terry, put an SM58 on a mike stand and go for acoustic through the clean channel. If you want to play amped harp, get an SM57, turn both channels and all the effects up to about 5, turn down the highs on the eq's and wail away. Just about everything from James Cotton to John Popper is available if you have it in you. I use a Peavey mic cord that has an on/off at the mic end so I can turn it off real quick if & when it starts feeding back. I think one of Greg's Ultimate 57's will open up a world of possibilities with my Peavey amps. The most important thing(s), remember everything you have ever heard about tone being 90% player and forget everything you've ever heard about Peavey's being good , cheap amps for 80's garage bands. Think of them as loud PA combos.
In the survey conducted by the Blues Harp Amps blog in 2011 we found that 2% of harp players said they use Peavey amps in a performance setting. Put another way, 98% choose to use something else.
Not old but the Peavy Valve King 112 is (is!) excellent for harp. Prior thread: http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/4997408.htm
Rick, that hurts. I've been hearing I'm on the 2% fringe all my life.
But, please let me try to explain it another way.
I have a Peavey Bravo 112 that cost me $125 + another $35 at Tube Depot. It's 25 watts with a spring reverb through a 12" speaker. Sound familiar? Think Blues Jr. and all the treads devoted to turning one of those into a harp amp. Entry cost of about $350. I have not experimented with speaker changes yet (on that amp), but I think there is potential there.
There may be a 98% spread in harp players who buy a Peavey amp, but for the 50-400% spread in the savings of owning one it is difficult to play so well as to justify weighting one's harp budget so heavily against owning one.
This Peavey thing is kind of like a disease and I don't think I have any hope of recovery, at least until I have owned a Duel. But, there are so many of them out there to try. XX's, XXX's, Windsors, Vypers, and all that old tube stuff that never seems to wear out. All to be had for less than taking your Beatle Maniac wife to a Paul McCartney concert. (a different disease) - Pray you never catch it.
Of course it all depends what "sounds good" means. If you are looking for that tired cliched "vintage" muddy over distorted sound, a Peavey is probably not for you.
atty1- I know Billy Branch plays a Peavey, but he's Billy Branch, ya know? If a blues harp player I don't know asks me if a Peavey amp will be good I am going to automatically tell him that I think there are better alternatives, without getting into all the minutia and excretia.
"Sounds good" has a pretty well-known meaning for blues harp amps. It means it sounds like a SJ amp. or a HG or a Mission or a Meteor or some Fender amps. There is no need to redefine the meaning of "sounds good" since it is generally agreed that these amps make the right tones. That is what I am thinking of when a blues harp player asks the question, and I get the question a lot.
You have to take particular care with newer players. If they buy a powerful high gain guitar amp it is likely be such a feedback beast that they will get all frustrated and just give up on it. They can't get it past 2 without screaming howling feedback. That is no way to learn amped harp technique.
Many players are looking specifically for an old-school Little Walter-ish distorted tone. There is nothing wrong that and no need for you to sneer at it as "cliched." As Billy Branch said, if that is the tone you seek ( and many many players do ) then a big powerful Peavey amp is not likely to be the best place to start.
Which was pretty much my original point.
Heathen- I've been hankerin' to try the Peavey Festival Duece just for grins.
Rick - I pretty much agree with what you are saying, but let me break it down further.
If "sounds good" means a distorted Chicago-style tone, and you would steer someone you didn't know away from a Peavey (because that tone would not be there), and it doesn't matter what a top pro plays through because they are who they are, then my conclusion would be that for an average player to achieve the tone that "sounds good", then the easiest way for an average player to "sound good" would be to use all of the usual suspects in terms of equipment. In my opinion, that is a backward way to approach playing blues harp. I think that the emphasis should be on learning the instrument first. When you get good, the tone will be there.
Not a criticism. But I just see and hear everyone running to certain gear to help them sound good before the skills appear. IMHO
Give a Vypyr a whirl for sure. Good thing about those, aside from their modeling capabilities, is that there are two you could get that sound good for harp, and won't break your bank account. Try either the Vypyr 15 or the Nano-Vypyr. The 15 was my primary gigging amp for quite some time (see video posted below). And the Nano, IMHO, is actually somewhat superior to the Roland Micro Cube in several areas.
----------
Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on Apr 27, 2013 4:25 PM
attyt- LOL, you are all over the place on this. If we are making recommendations based on what "top pros" play then Peaveys are pretty much at the bottom of the list. Billy Branch is certainly a top pro, but only one among many. If a new player asked me the question and added that he wanted to sound like Billy Branch I'd steer him straight to the used gear department at Guitar Center. But that has never happened.
In his video Billy Branch himself said it was a good idea to try the gear you hear others play that sounds good to you. I think most players who are interested in amps aspire to sound like Kim Wilson or Little Walter or Gary Smith (or many other examples).
Let's say I make a horrible mistake and give the wrong advice to a young player.... Let's say he yearns to sound like Billy Branch, not Big Walter, and I steer him toward a nice tube amp. Here's the deal -- he will still be able to get where he wants to be. But if a player who wants to emulate Jerry Portnoy or James Cotton buys a Peavey Vintage 110 watt monster as his first amp I think he will be pissed off at me if I recommended it.
"Not a criticism. But I just see and hear everyone running to certain gear to help them sound good before the skills appear."
Yes indeed! If you ain't got the skills then pretty much ANY amp you play through is gonna sound like shit. On the other side of the coin, if you have the solid foundation of good acoustic tone, then almost any amp can be made to work for you to varying degrees. I know so many people who have spent thousands on gear and still sound awful, simply because they have never spent time working on acoustic tone.
Rick - I bought my 1st Peavey about 25 years ago, before the internet, back when information on the equipment was purely word of mouth, and I had no one to ask. Except, for all those self proclaimed experts who offer up their expertise at the drop of a hat. And to be honest, I did not know I was supposed to be trying to sound like anyone in particular.
But the harmonica gods were smiling on me. I bought a Heritage, which is considered to be the successor to the Duece. I have never been unhappy with it.
Heathen - I think the Heritage is the same amp Samuel L. Jackson plays in the movie Black Snake Moan. Very cool tone.
It is not "self-proclaimed experts" who have caused players to use certain amps. They buy them because they sound good, not because of any experts. They are rational consumers.
If you think a Peavey amp sounds good for harp that is great, but you have to admit is is a bit unusual.
Kingley, why exactly should a player who aspires to play amped blues harp not start using an amp from day one? Is it because you might be annoyed if you heard him playing badly? If we think back to the first time we every picked up a harmonica and blew threw it I bet there were people who thought we should never play again, ever. Or not until we had achieved some arbitrary level of skill. But it is hard to develop a skill if you never do it, and playing though and harp or an amp is a skill. Do you see?
Furthermore, amped playing encourages players to use good technique. It magnifies bad habits and makes them glaringly apparent. Getting good tone through an amp -- even a good amp -- takes work. Playing though an amp should make players better, not worse.
Some of us consider the amp to be part of the instrument. There is nothing wrong with getting started right away rather than waiting for permission from "self-proclaimed experts." If a player wants to buy an amp even BEFORE he ever plays a note that is fine with me. Or, if he chooses to develop his playing to the level of Buddy Greene before he ever touches a mic or amp that is fine with me, too. But it is a decision for the player to make.
Jehosaphat posted here ASKING for opinions on this Peavey amp. I offered mine: I think there are better alternatives. Sorry if anyone was offended. But that is how opinions work...
My experience was playing pretty seriously for about 6 years before I bought an amp. I wanted one but just didn't get one. I credit my tone (my primary asset) to learning to play acoustically -especially TB. Sample size = 1 so take it for what it's worth.
Rick, the "self proclaimed experts" remark was aimed towards all the folks out there who offer up opinions without any idea of what they are talking about. Most recently, a guitar player telling me I need a Blues Junior (I have to wear earplugs when I play with this guy) and a drummer telling me a Bullet mic cures feedback. Pawnshops and music stores are often staffed by self proclaimed experts.
Come to think of it, I'm no expert. I would not want anybody to go out and buy a Peavey based on what I say about them. Your results may vary. Besides, if they beome "discovered", the prices will undoubtedly go up.
"I think the Heritage is the same amp Samuel L. Jackson plays in the movie Black Snake Moan. Very cool tone."
Actually, Jackson used a Festival in BSM (see at 3:13 in the vid below). Course, that may just have been the amp they shot in the movie. Could've been a different amp for the soundtrack recording.
On the "self-proclaimed experts" note, I would agree with Heathen that these words of influence tend to come from people who really don't have a clue when it comes to amped harp. There's a cat here in my town who, every time I see him, comments that he can't believe I still haven't gotten a Blues Junior. After all, he told me long ago that it's the best amp out there for harp. I've stifled a fit of laughter every time.
On the other hand, isn't it interesting that the people who really CAN legitimately be called experts are folks you might least expect? Another fella in my town owns a luthier shop (which ironically shares its venue in the same building as a mini golf course), and he's very soft-spoken and humble. Yet he's got a better grasp on what a good electric harp rig should consist of than any other non-harp player I know. ----------
Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on Apr 29, 2013 8:35 AM
Hawkeye, I've played thru Blues Juniors that some friends of mine had either owned or borrowed. Some of them really suck, some are good. The main thing with these amps is to make sure you first turn the fat switch off and turn the master volume all the way up, which turns this feature off (I despise the master volume thing because everything gets too dirty to the point that you lose dynamic touch from breath control and everything tends to sound garbled and lacks definition), and then turn the treble totally off. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Oh I know Blues Juniors can be good for harp with the right settings or tube swaps. A good friend of mine uses a BJ for harp on a regular basis. He's had feedback and tone issues with it in the past, but eventually he got them sorted out and now uses a Retro Rocket with it, and seems delighted with his setup. I was only commenting on the general absurdity of the one guy's belief that they're THE BEST amp made for harp. ----------
Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on Apr 29, 2013 9:17 AM
My friend Ken "Mojo Red" Mergantime played through a modified Blues Junior for years before he bought a Mission 32-20. He made it sound great.
Bob is right: The FAT switch on the Bjr is evil for harp. Do not use it.
I don't really like the sound of these amps but I have to admit quite a few players use them. In the harp amp poll we found that 8% of harp players who use Fender amps use the BJr for performing. When the BJr first came out in 1995 there was quite a buzz (pardon the bad pun) about it being a good harp amp. No doubt Fender was behind this, and it persists to this day. Guitar players are always advising us to get a Blues Junior.
Lots of new players did just that, I think in large part because info on harp amps was scarce and the amp had the word "Blues" in its name. I bought one in 2005, kept it for a couple years and just never really got what I wanted out of it. But I learned a lot by tinkering with it.
"When the BJr first came out in 1995 there was quite a buzz (pardon the bad pun) about it being a good harp amp. No doubt Fender was behind this, and it persists to this day. Guitar players are always advising us to get a Blues Junior."
True. And more recently, Fender also created some hype about the Excelsior being phenomenal for harp. Which, like the BJ, it can be. But not without some adjustments. Heck, I found the Greta to be better sounding for harp, and only then when running through a good extension cabinet. The Pro Junior is the one that seems to get very little harp-hype bestowed on it, and yet it seems to be better stock than any of those other Fenders.
"Kingley, why exactly should a player who aspires to play amped blues harp not start using an amp from day one? Is it because you might be annoyed if you heard him playing badly?"
Rick, Did I say any of those things ? No I didn't. What I did say was "If you ain't got the skills then pretty much ANY amp you play through is gonna sound like shit. On the other side of the coin, if you have the solid foundation of good acoustic tone, then almost any amp can be made to work for you to varying degrees."
Do you think that acoustic tone is not important for an amped player Rick? Do you know any player who has crap tone that sounds better through an amp Rick? Do you see? :)
Any player that is serious about playing harp should concentrate on acoustic tone. It makes a person a far better player and also makes gear a lot less important in the long run. That isn't to say that someone shouldn't practice amped from day one if they so desire. What it does mean is that the amp should not become the main focus of their attention. They should concentrate on building their chops and their acoustic tone, regardless. The pitfall however is that if people concentrate on their amplification above their playing in the beginner stage, then they often become afraid of not having that comfort blanket on hand. For instance I know many players who simply refuse to play if there is no reverb, delay or an amp available for them to use. They will not play into a vocal mic at a jam under any circumstances. Those same people all have very bad tone and low skill levels of playing. They simply refuse to spend the time practicing acoustically and building a good foundation to work with.
Yes if they want to practice mic cupping and how to work with an amp, then they should, but the main focus of practice should still be to work on acoustic tone and building their chops. Whether that is by learning songs, scales or simply by playing riffs.I'd be surprised if you could find any good harmonica teacher that would tell you otherwise.
Last Edited by Kingley on Apr 29, 2013 10:18 AM
I can honestly say that I've never heard any pro player use a Peavey other than Billy Branch. I certainly wouldn't recommend a Peavey amp to anyone. I think there are far better choices out there for harp. Of course though it's all a matter of personal taste.
Last Edited by Kingley on Apr 29, 2013 11:23 AM
listen to this guy play, no mic, no amp to be found anywhere. no doubt in my mind he could plug any mic into a peavey and get a very authentic little walter tone. having said that the first thing i did was buy the nicest amp i could afford and a jt 30 when i started 90 per cent of my practice was acoustic playing no need for an amp. nowadays the only time i plg in to an amp at home,is just to check that every thing is working
a mic and amp is icing on the cake! holding a micraphone is not rocket science
i had a choice of 10 or 12 vintages amps to play thru saturday. what amp did i use? a stock blues jr. no regrets, we use it all the time.
Kingley writes: "For instance I know many players who simply refuse to play if there is no reverb, delay or an amp available for them to use."
Wow. Well, that is where we differ. I don't know any players like that, nor have I ever known any. But even if players like that do exist, why does it bother some others so much?
When discussing amps in any harp forum there is always, and I mean ALWAYS, someone who pipes up with the notion that players should perfect their acoustic tone before ever using and amp. It is nonsense. It is also nobody's business but the player.
I played for eight years before buying my first amp. But for players who desire to play an amped blues style I suggest they get a small amp tube from day one. I certainly wish I had done that.
"When discussing amps in any harp forum there is always, and I mean ALWAYS, someone who pipes up with the notion that players should perfect their acoustic tone before ever using and amp. It is nonsense. It is also nobody's business but the player."
I konw-like this guy Dennis Gruneling- check out what this guy has to say-
. Q: “I’ve been practicing a lot and learning some new (tongue-blocking) techniques, but also just picked up a new amplifier and microphone. Should I be practicing amplified, holding the harp with my mic?“
A: I get this question a lot. To start off, I will say that I recommend all your practice for any harmonica techniques, licks, songs, etc…to be done without holding a microphone. When you are learning a technique on the instrument, you want to be able to focus on the mechanics & muscles it takes to accomplish this, and have your body get used to doing it step-by-step. Adding a microphone into the mix will usually only complicate the practice and/or focus. So I recommend that you practice acoustic. HOWEVER, if you want to get better at your amplified playing (or playing while holding a microphone) and/or this is fairly new to you, I would recommend practicing while holding a microphone as a technique to practice in & of itself until you get more used to holding the harp with a microphone. But at first, I wouldn’t worry about practicing something difficult or new while holding a mic, just get used to holding the harp with the mic while playing things you already know and things you can comfortably play.
Make sure you read and understand the second to last sentance -
Q: “Why is there so much talk and interest in microphones and amplifiers? Isn’t it really the player and the instrument that gives you the tone? Why worry so much about specific equipment? The tone should come from the player.”
A: While it is true that your own natural tone is amplified when using a microphone and amplifier, certain amplifiers and microphones (and certain combinations of microphones and amplifiers) can really add a whole new dimension of tonal variations to your sound.
The reason why certain microphones (especially popular bullet-style microphones such as the vintage Astatic JT-30 crystal/ceramic microphones and the Shure 520 Green Bullet-style magnetic microphones) are so popular amongst harp players is that when used with certain amplifiers and a developed hand-cupping technique, they can really add a new dimension of tone and enhance the overall sound you get from the instrument. An amplified “rig” (mic and amp combination) really becomes an extension of the instrument when used this way, in the sense that you can vary your sound with tonal variations by not just your harp tone, technique and attack, but now also with your microphone or cupping technique. Certain microphone/amplifier combinations work so well together that they add tonal shades, variations, and textures that you can’t get otherwise or with other equipment. This is mainly why some players (such as myself) also get very much into the the “equipment” side of things, but of course your natural tone on the instrument is of the utmost importance since this will be the biggest factor in your sound whether you play acoustic OR amplified. But this fact does not negate the big difference that a great mic/amp combination can make, once you have developed a good tone and solid microphone technique.
There's nothing wrong with using an amp to practice, but you always have to remember that acoustic tone is most important to obtaining a good sound. If a player really wants to progress with their tone, then they have to spend time working on it acoustically. That is an inescapable fact.
Kingley, we agree. But good tone is good tone, whether it is acoustic or amped. Put another way, bad tone is always bad, but with an amp it is just louder.
By the way, and for what it may be worth -- I believe my acoustic tone is better than my amped tone.
i some times will not play if there is not an amp. i saw cal david play yesterday great guitar player and a fine singer and bandleader he use to own a club in palm springs i went to sit in with his band. the sound guy did not want to mic my amp a 57 champ, i said you don't know how to mic an amp? i'll just have a beer,never mind. so the the guy mic's me up and now i am shitting bricks this room was off the hook he had the most outrageous pa the room was designed with acoustics in mind. and you could not ask for a better back up band. i got to play the entire set! not just the 2 songs i got the best compliment, cal said "i had big ears"!
also i would like to retract my statement a mic and amp was not this first thing i ever bought it was a buick then an 8 track player. i had harmonicas long before i ever had an amp. ---------- tipjar
When a new player asks me about what amp he should get I always recommend these:
-VHT Special 6 -Kalamazoo amp from Greg Heumann -Silver face Fender Champ
They are inexpensive, easy to tweak, and have great tone. The player will learn a lot about amped playing without investing much money.
When the player gets a little more experience and asks about an amp for performing I usually recommend the Mission 32-20 or similar. But I think every blues harp player should have a small 5-watt tube amp, so that first purchase never goes to waste.
Amps are fun. New players should not be scolded about wanting to play through amps. Anything that inspires them to practice is good. They are smart and many of them will become better harp players than the scolds who tut-tut so much about their choices. I try to encourage them.
Ya'll are busy saying the same thing. 5 watts, yes. 57 Champ was my first and it took me almost as long to get one as Ricks first. Picking up my Gibson Lancer Saturday :) !! I think Rick and I have both made up for lost time since then. Interesting topic that might be, the pattern of waiting too long to get the first one and becoming a junkie for them after that.
And, returning to the OP, I will post some Peavey video soon.
Last Edited by Littoral on Apr 29, 2013 4:34 PM
