Rick Davis
1381 posts
Mar 02, 2013
5:06 PM
|
Tmf, that is all very interesting but I don't think the objective here is to recreate a vintage Fender amp. When we say "Princeton" it refers to the size of the cab and chassis, not necessarily the size of the speaker. Weber, for example, sells its 5F2A cab with a 10-inch cutout, and amp makers can specify their own preference in speaker cutout when ordering from Mojotone in volume.
Again, in case you misunderstood... we are not really trying to clone the Princeton amp even though we used that word. It's okay if we change the speaker size.
Thanks.
----------
-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Mar 02, 2013 5:09 PM
|
5F6H
1573 posts
Mar 02, 2013
5:08 PM
|
I'm sure Bruce will source cabs with the correct size hole for the speaker he uses. Weber's are 10" default. Other builders may have other plans. A "narrow panel" does not mean 5F2-A specifically, could be 5E2/5F2 also. Mojo will do custom cut outs for speakers & chassis & discounts on bulk purchases ("if" this is where they come from at all).
----------
www.myspace.com/markburness
http://www.facebook.com/markburness
Last Edited by 5F6H on Mar 02, 2013 5:20 PM
|
tmf714
1529 posts
Mar 02, 2013
5:21 PM
|
"The 5F2-A could have come with 8" or 10"."
No-it only came from Fender with an 8" speaker.
The black ,brown and silver face came with a 10" speaker.
The TV,Wide and Narrow panel Tweed Princetons all came with 8's.
Last Edited by tmf714 on Mar 02, 2013 5:27 PM
|
Rick Davis
1382 posts
Mar 02, 2013
5:38 PM
|
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_retentiveness
I hope this is helpful.
----------
-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
|
5F6H
1574 posts
Mar 02, 2013
5:51 PM
|
TMF714 - You are right about the tweed Princetons, it was the last Tweed Harvard 6G10 that came with a 10" & circuit identical to the 5F2-A.
----------
www.myspace.com/markburness
http://www.facebook.com/markburness
|
tmf714
1530 posts
Mar 02, 2013
6:00 PM
|
Thanks Mark-I knew I was right-but it's up to Bruce to choose the combo that's best for him.
|
PeterG
6 posts
Mar 09, 2013
8:21 PM
|
I just picked up a Fender Excelsior and I'm impressed with how it cuts through at small clubs with only 12 watts. I have a larger tube amp, but wanted one that would be easier to transport. The tone is decent, but could use some modification to avoid feedback at high volume. If I could find an amp that was in the 18-25 watt range and geared for harp at under $1K, I'd return the Excelsior and buy it.
|
Kingley
2390 posts
Mar 10, 2013
12:02 AM
|
"If I could find an amp that was in the 18-25 watt range and geared for harp at under $1K, I'd return the Excelsior and buy it."
Just over the mark at $1085 is the HarpGear Double Trouble. Killer mid sized harp amp. 18 watts, 2x6V6, 2x8" speakers and a line out.
|
Littoral
801 posts
Mar 10, 2013
6:27 AM
|
Rick, the link/thread 6NS7 posted was interesting. That thread finally got around to the importance of the cabinet. The variables to the "right" cabinet are many but being aware that they even exist seems to be the hardest one for people to factor in. Optimal volume/ratio to speaker size, material and construction are essential. The common limitation for amp cabinets is that they are overbuilt.
The link/thread says it well when a poster equates the body and material of a great acoustic guitar to the optimal design and resonance of a speaker cabinet. THAT gets to the point and I think properly states the value of the "right" cabinet.
btw -on a somewhat related topic, Gibson Lancer out my attic after 25 years needed tubes and nothing else. 100% original. She's Tough
Last Edited by Littoral on Mar 10, 2013 6:48 AM
|
Rick Davis
1429 posts
Mar 10, 2013
8:03 AM
|
Littoral, thanks. I'll pass it along to Bruce Collins.
And congrats on the Lancer! Great amp...
----------
-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
|
MJ
594 posts
Mar 10, 2013
9:43 AM
|
Littoral makes a point that I have believed and stated a few times . That cabinet size and shape has tons to do with end result. When first building my amps I also made the cabs. Some turned out sounding nice and others just so so. After noticing and trying different sizes cabinet I came upon the perfect (for me) cab size and shape for my 5F1 10" speaker builds. It sounds great and I have reproduced it for other amps and speaker enclosures.
|
Littoral
802 posts
Mar 10, 2013
12:02 PM
|
...and materials and construction. It just makes sense that that a good sound will come from the right wood that will resonate with the speaker and the signal sent to it. Not too dense and assembled so nothing gets in the way so the whole thing can sing.
Sounds like 1/4" seasoned pine dovetailed to me. I bet real pine at 1/8" would be even better.
Real pine is original longleaf, Pinus palustris, best found in old southern barns these days.
Last Edited by Littoral on Mar 10, 2013 12:03 PM
|
Rick Davis
1434 posts
Mar 10, 2013
12:43 PM
|
Well.... the amp maker has to balance aesthetics and cost. There are lots of great sounding cabs out there. You could surely always find ways to build even better sounding cabs but the cost and complexity may be prohibitive. All the harp amp makers I can think of use off-the-shelf cabs.
If you can find a way to build exotic cabs and market them at competitive prices I'm sure you could sell lots of them.
----------
-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
|
MJ
595 posts
Mar 10, 2013
4:51 PM
|
The cab I ended up with that gives me great tone,I made from Birch plywood. Other cabs I had that I bought were made from solid pine. Density has something to do with sound, I agree, but I think the shape and size are bigger factors. So given that, I believe overly rare or expensive materials are not necessarily a must.
|
Littoral
803 posts
Mar 10, 2013
5:09 PM
|
JD knows cabinets.
Ok, so you agree on the importance of the cabinet and how it is generally undervalued in discussions of amp design? That was my point.
I don't really know a lot about amp circuitry and less about constructing cabinets, but I am interested in the question.
You say:
"...the floating 5/16" thick Douglas Fir baffle is where many of us believe most of the resonance comes from."
Sure would be great to answer that question more definitively -assuming the resonance REALLY matters. I imagine Douglas Fir was used in part because it was available and it worked. Why try anything else?
The same reason Leo did AND because the importance of the cabinet is lost in most conversations about amp design (the topic of this thread is about a new amp design).
Pine
Sure, they're all "REAL" but among the southern yellow pines long leaf is in a league of it's own. The ecology of the tree is an awesome story. They covered 80% of the southeastern US from NC to Texas but 99% of it is gone now. It was "replaced" with slash because it grows faster and now slash is the most abundant yellow pine in the US. You can add it to your list.
|
Rick Davis
1435 posts
Mar 11, 2013
12:46 AM
|
JD, it is likely that the same guy who built your Mission 5E3 cab will be building the cabs for the new Mission amp.
Let me ask you guys this: If an amp were covered in tolex instead of tweed -- and sold at a lower price -- would it still be as appealing? If the price were say, $50 lower would you be as interested in it as a more expensive tweed version?
BTW, Bruce has finished building up the first circuit and chassis for the amp. He sent me photos tonight and it looks good. It will get fired up tomorrow. Still a long way to go, but this is progress.
----------
-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Mar 11, 2013 1:09 AM
|
Littoral
804 posts
Mar 11, 2013
6:28 AM
|
I like tolex, especially 2 tone versions. If various colors are an easy enough option that might be a selling point.
I'd like a pink one, with black trim. Make people laugh at it before it cuts the room in half.
Like the custom cover on my Concert, multi-cultural ballerinas, with black trim.
Also, JD, way back I figured out that the stains in the tolex were from the knots in the wood underneath. Any more history to this? Specific wood, years it appears?
Last Edited by Littoral on Mar 11, 2013 6:30 AM
|
tmf714
1549 posts
Mar 11, 2013
6:36 AM
|
Cab made with knotty pine-stains due to knots,which may or may not fall out after time.
|
PeterG
7 posts
Mar 11, 2013
10:51 AM
|
Now THAT'S a macho amp cover!
|
Rick Davis
1442 posts
Mar 11, 2013
6:08 PM
|
Bruce Collins texted me this message today:
"It's Alive!
14 watts dead clean into an 8 ohm power resistor. Get a few minor bugs worked out and it's badda boom."
I'll head over to his shop tomorrow to check it out. Looks like it might exceed 15 watts at clipping.
----------
-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Mar 11, 2013 6:08 PM
|
dted
36 posts
Mar 11, 2013
6:28 PM
|
What the heck is wrong with "clipping" in a TUBE amp. Isn't that why we use tubes?
|
Rick Davis
1443 posts
Mar 11, 2013
6:33 PM
|
Nothing wrong with it. It is just a way to measure power.
----------
-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
|
