ElliotChild
1 post
Feb 25, 2013
10:07 AM
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I'm looking for a new harmonica microphone. I want an extremely crunchy, distorted sound-not that clean SM-57, Butterfield sound.
The Green Bullet seems to be the go-to for most seeking the dirty, Chicago sound; but I've heard that the 585 Unisphere (no longer in production) has an even more powerful sound.
Can anyone provide insight into which of these two harp mics is more effective? Or if you have a microphone in mind that has an even more crunchy, raw sound than both of these mics, then please share!
Thanks!
PS - Bear in mind I want an incredibly distorted sound. My dream is to have a microphone that is distorts harmonica similarly to the way Jimi Hendrix's fender Stratocaster to a Vox Wah-Wah distorts guitar. Think mind-numbing distortion.
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TetonJohn
83 posts
Feb 25, 2013
10:23 AM
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If you want THAT MUCH distortion, you'll probably want a pedal that helps: for example, one of the Lone Wolf pedals such as harp break, harp attack, or octave. I'm no microphone expert, but a microphone with a Shure Controlled Reluctanace element is a good bet -- but probably still won't get you to where you say you want.
Option 2: Run a small amp that distorts easily like a Champ clone (with a line out) into a big amp.
or both options if you really want to go wild!
I guess that's 4 prongs:
1) CR element into
2) Distortion pedal into
3) Small amp into
4) large amp
Yeeha!
Last Edited by TetonJohn on Feb 25, 2013 10:30 AM
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Kingley
2352 posts
Feb 25, 2013
10:24 AM
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Well you'd be better off looking for an amp that distorts if you want super heavy distortion. Or use a preamp in front of your amp. Something like a Lone Wolf Harp Break cranked up might do it, a Boss overdrive pedal might be even more distorted if that's what you're after. I don't think any mic is going to give you the level of distortion that you say you want. You need to look at effects pedals to do that job.
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BluesJacketman
38 posts
Feb 25, 2013
10:33 AM
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butterfield never used a sm-57. and is sound was on the mildly crunchy side.
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arnenym
113 posts
Feb 25, 2013
11:31 AM
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It's better to use a Lo-z mic for much distorsion and let the pedals work.
The most distorted harp i ever heard was Johnny Mars in the EP Horses and Places. He used lo-z 545's and pedals in to a higain amp.. He built a treblepot in to the mic to get controlled feedback and used the feedback in the songs he played.
For a little less distorsion, fatter and better sound you can use a CR- shure and a Lonewolf pedal.
Last Edited by arnenym on Feb 25, 2013 11:37 AM
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stokeblues
12 posts
Feb 25, 2013
12:11 PM
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butterfield used a shure 545 or shure pe54 pistol grip and they have more power and grunt than a cr green bullit in my opinion because i've got em,but more people like the bullit so my advise is get a vintage 545 or some body who's got one and try it and get back on the forum cuz i'd like to know your take,also get some of randys lonewolf pedals like amenym says -just opens new doors of sound in your playing. if butterfields palying is clean the thats the sound i'd love to be at!!!!!
Last Edited by stokeblues on Feb 25, 2013 12:17 PM
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Bigtone
119 posts
Feb 25, 2013
12:37 PM
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@EC
In my opinion you can get a fuller sound with the Green Bullet. Can't go wrong with one. If you need one let me know
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dougharps
346 posts
Feb 25, 2013
3:12 PM
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Here is my take on it:
The older CR and CM element Green Bullets will break up more than the 585. The bullets are omnidirectional mics and heavy on the mid frequencies. They can be cupped and deliver great distortion, but are more prone to feedback than a directional mic. The 585 is a directional cardioid dynamic mic that is less prone to feedback but doesn't distort on its own as easily as a bullet, though it will break up some. It has a better low end. The choice is a matter of preference.
Either of these mics can cause considerable distortion in a tube amp that is set up for distortion (or the right solid state amp or modeling amp). A 545 or 57 can also cause an amp to break up due to a strong signal overdriving the preamp tubes. Even a clean mic like the Audix Fireball V can be used with a modeler to get considerable distortion (ala Richard Hunter patches). To complicate matters, each amp/mic/speaker combination is different, so you really can't be sure until you try it.
The problem with the kind of distortion you are describing is that it is often a product of lots of gain stages (like with Hendrix guitar solo or heavy metal guitar), but a mic feeds back with that much gain. Guitars just sustain. Guitar distortion pedals can get great distortion for harp at low volume, but often are not usable for live gigs.
This is why people buy anti-feedback devices for harp. Amp modelers can create this kind of gain, that can sound good a low volumes or direct recording, but when you amplify it for live performance you risk feedback. Tube amps can be driven to total distortion, but will feed back.
Jason Ricci uses lots of pedals to try to get a specific compressed distortion. You might check how he does it.
There is interaction between gain, distortion and feedback. Directional mics are less feedback prone than Omni-directional mics, but may be cleaner.
Good luck!
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Doug S.
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jbone
1203 posts
Feb 25, 2013
8:39 PM
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Cm or Cr green bullet. Also depends on amp.
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http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
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Kingley
2358 posts
Feb 25, 2013
10:20 PM
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For a good very overdriven sound it's hard to beat a 5F1 champ cranked up and a bullet mic. If you want more overdrive than that though, you'll probably have to resort to effects pedals to get it. Although as people have stated, fighting feedback at volume will be your main problem.
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SuperBee
961 posts
Feb 26, 2013
12:15 AM
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-----Mm, I found that adding harp break to my amp reduced the feedback threshold. As in, I got feedback at lower volume.
The LW octave pedal increases my Feedback threshold. The breakup might be something you'd like. It adds overtones (I don't know if that's the right description, but its a fuller sound). Harp break is good if your amp has heaps of clean headroom at the volume you want to play at, but you can get louder with harp octave. Different sort of crunch though.
But mics...I dunno. CM is plenty dirty for me. I don't like it real distorted though. I find that sound gets old quickly for me
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Greg Heumann
2032 posts
Feb 26, 2013
8:46 AM
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I totally agree with all of the above, summarizing:
1) Not all green bullets are alike.
2) A Bullet is easier to cup than a 585 making it more likely to produce a distorted signal
3) Butterfield played 545/PE54 and those mics distort as much as a bullet when cupped. But a 585 is nothing like a 545.
4) The kind of sound you're after naturally will be so far into the feedback zone it will be unmanageable
5) You will have to manufacture it with a pedal and careful management of gain, at which point it hardly matters what mic you use.
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/Greg
Last Edited by Greg Heumann on Feb 26, 2013 8:48 AM
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bonedog569
841 posts
Feb 26, 2013
10:01 AM
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'Hendrix distortion' ? Most of what comes to mind is him riding on the very edge of feedback - then going over the edge. That produced a heavily compressed signal and infinite sustain. You can get a singing quality compression with a hot mic and the right tube amp set up (also with amp simulators) - but there's no way to ride on and over the edge of feedback with a mic - like you can with guitar.
He did use a 'fuzz face' pedal - that you can no longer get** but you could experiment with various 'fuzz' and distortion pedals. All the one's I've tried make for way too hot a signal using a mic - but you may
find something that works for you.
:
"The Fuzz Face were originally made with a now obsoleted transistor technology, made of Germanium. They overdrive in a special way, but is technically quite primitive."
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