Pockets
11 posts
Feb 18, 2013
11:40 AM
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So i checked the prior threads, but did not seem to see much conversation on this pedal. I was curious if anyone had or has used this pedal.... and your overall review. Any side by side's to the AFB+?
Which is better?
I saw Jason had a video on it.
Think it's worth the $$?
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Rick Davis
1322 posts
Feb 18, 2013
11:54 AM
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Actually, the LW Harp Sheild has been discussed pretty thoroughly in this forum. I don't think there was ever a consensus... some people like it and others said it did not deliver the good. Find those threads to get all the details.
I have not tried the Harp Shield (and I own an AFB+) but I think the Harp Shield does exactly what it is designed to do: It is a noise gate that shuts your mic off when the level of sound coming through it falls below an adjustable threshold level. I think it does not battle feedback directly, it instead reduces the opportunity for it to occur. ...at least theoretically.
There is a very good return policy on all of the Lone Wolf products. Just order it and see if it works for you.
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Feb 19, 2013 12:39 PM
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Stokes Bay Slim
5 posts
Feb 18, 2013
12:08 PM
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I have a question about this product which seems to be a solution to the ongoing harp players nightmare -FEEDBACK.
Would the Harp Shield work with a solid state modelling amp? I have a second hand Line6 Spider 111 120w that I bought to compete with the loudness of my fellow band members. The amp has some nice sounds and with a Shaker Dynamic mic it does the job well but it does still feedback sometimes particularly if I can't get enough distance away from it in a small venue. Is the LW Harpshield the answer?
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SuperBee
924 posts
Feb 18, 2013
12:13 PM
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I think it's not a fair comparison with the kinder. It's a completely different concept and somewhat different application.
There are a few threads which address it.
Essentially, if you have trouble with feedback when you are not actively playing, for whatever reason, this pedal could help.
If you are playing in a very loud situation (loud drums etc which will bleed into your mic and trigger the gate) it could be that you have to turn the sensitivity so low that it makes it impractical as you have to play with a lot of force to keep the signal path open.
That was my experience. My band was loud enough that everyone was wearing earplugs (which led to them playing even more loudly) and the poor little harp shield was completely overwhelmed.
But if you are in less extreme circumstances, using a mic with no volume control and experiencing feedback when you move about stage, approach the amp, or just have your amp at the point it feeds back when you aren't playing, this would be very useful.
The kinder AFB is a different concept. I don't have one, haven't used one, so I'll leave it to others to talk about it.
In my circumstance I found a volume control on my mic was more effective and practical than the harp shield.
Since I left that band and have played in some quieter situations I have found applications where it would have been handy.
I have seen claims that people can turn their amps much louder now they have this pedal. That wasn't my experience even when practicing alone. But I always turn my mic down when I approach the amp. If I was using no VC maybe I'd have a different perspective. I've spoken to 2 players privately, locally, who have the pedal. 1 loved it and said he could now turn his amp volume to 6 whereas before he could only get to 2. The other said he had not found it very useful and it was on the shelf of things he never uses.
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Last Edited by SuperBee on Feb 18, 2013 12:31 PM
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puri
33 posts
Feb 19, 2013
1:24 AM
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@Superbee, "My band was loud enough that everyone was wearing earplugs (which led to them playing even more loudly)" ha ha! classic, you gotta love that!
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SuperBee
925 posts
Feb 19, 2013
2:25 AM
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Even the audience wears earplugs
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timeistight
1124 posts
Feb 19, 2013
8:06 AM
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You didn't need a noise gate; you needed a sound-proof booth.
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Playing music... it's a privilege.
Kim Wilson
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HarpNinja
3207 posts
Feb 19, 2013
8:22 AM
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Right - I don't think you can assess any piece of gear appropriately when playing that loud. I am sure the Kinder would have got you more volume, but you would have sounded awful.
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SuperBee
929 posts
Feb 19, 2013
11:56 AM
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yeah, like no-one else in the world would ever have that problem.
It's perfectly possible to accurately assess it, considering it is simply a noise gate. The assessment is that it couldn't deal with the situation.
It would be far more difficult to accurately assess it without having used it in different situations.
Especially difficult if one hadn't used it at all.
As noted above, I also used it while practicing at home alone.
i expect i actually have a much better understanding of its practical usefulness than many.
this was a loud band. it was a loud drummer who broke a lot of sticks. he was only one guy though. we are not talking anything extraordinary in sound support. plenty of bands play that loudly. Even these relatively well-mannered blues bands seem to make it difficult for many harp players to hear themselves on stage. i only use 1 410 DeVille for instance.
key points:
it is misleading to compare it to a Kinder AFB
because of the nature of the pedal, a loud sound stage can overwhelm the threshhold setting and make it impractical to use
it can be useful ONLY if you have issues with feedback while not actively playing (i never had that problem as i used volume control. an on/off switch can work even a little better. this is effectively what the harp shield is i.e. an automatic on/off switch. With VC or on/off however, you remain in control and there is no threshhold concern)
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Last Edited by SuperBee on Feb 19, 2013 12:25 PM
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timeistight
1125 posts
Feb 19, 2013
12:23 PM
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"There are plenty of bands play that loudly."
Loud enough to require ear protection in the rehearsal room? Loud enough that the band was being amplified by the harp player's amp every time the harp mic was opened?
I guess there are. Not a healthy thing, IMHO.
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Playing music... it's a privilege.
Kim Wilson
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HarpNinja
3208 posts
Feb 19, 2013
12:35 PM
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To expect a noise gate to not trigger when a band is so loud the audience has to wear ear plugs seems foolish.
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SuperBee
930 posts
Feb 19, 2013
1:01 PM
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why are you trying to pick a fight with me?
the drummer plays seven days a week, mainly metal bands. unhealthy and foolish if he DIDN'T wear plugs.
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Last Edited by SuperBee on Feb 19, 2013 1:38 PM
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MJ
572 posts
Feb 19, 2013
1:09 PM
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If anyone is in the market for a Harp Shield at a good price.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230931556524?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
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HarpNinja
3209 posts
Feb 19, 2013
1:36 PM
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I don't get how I am picking a fight, if that is directed at me. Using a noise gate in an extremely loud situation like that doesn't seem to be the best way to get more volume before feedback.
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SuperBee
931 posts
Feb 19, 2013
1:42 PM
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the remark about the audience was a JOKE...
harpninja, why would you find it necessary to take the opportunity to post personal remarks about my capacity to comment about the device, then pass comment on the healthiness of loud music and finally just call me foolish?
this is a thread about the harp shield pedal. i passed on my experience. i have not slated the pedal. if there is any criticism implied in my comments it is simply about the way this pedal seems to be presented as an alternative to the Kinder AFB. i consider this is misleading. we have had threads here which clearly seem to be private endorsement of the pedal.
whether or not you consider i am foolish to have thought this pedal may have been useful is surely your affair.
if you would like to email me to let me know your feelings more explicitly, please feel welcome.
i don't think it helps the OP however, to derail the thread into a personal attack on me. i am just a mug harmonica player who tried a piece of equipment based on some marketing which led me to believe it may have been useful to me. i have tried to share my experience with someone who asked about it.
Sure, its fine to question whether my observations are valid. but i think your posts here have gone somewhat beyond that and are simply rude and insulting.
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HarpNinja
3210 posts
Feb 19, 2013
1:49 PM
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Personal attack on you? You're reading way too much into this.
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Rick Davis
1324 posts
Feb 19, 2013
2:11 PM
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Reading over my post (#2) I think I may have come off as endorsing the Harp Shield. I am not; just trying to be neutral.
When I say the Harp Shield does exactly what it was designed to do I mean it is a working noise gate, but I do not think that is an effective way to fight feedback, especially in a gig setting.
It may work for harp players who play with a really disciplined band and very low stage volume, but most of use don't live in that world. Jason Ricci does, but not me. I wish I did.
Most of us go to blues jams and play an occasional weekend warrior gig. The guitar players and drummers are, uh, excitable. Sound levels exceed the noise gated threshold in a hurry. The noise gate becomes useless.
The Kinder AFB+ is not a perfect solution, but it does give you a bit more headroom before screech. And the extra room can make all the difference. As Mike said, though, if you overuse the Kinder your tone will really suffer.
And.... SuperBee, I see your point but I don't think Mike was trying to pester you into an argument. Heck, I take stuff the wrong way all the time in online forums. It is hard without visual cues to help us know the tone of any comment.
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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tmf714
1497 posts
Feb 19, 2013
2:16 PM
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I would say 90% of players do not know how to properly set up the Kinder AFB+-just like they do not know how to set up the HarpKing amp.
You really need to stick to the setup guide provided by John Kinder-people read way too much into the simple little blue box,and can become easily distraught.
Mic cupping,technique and knowing your amplifiers limitations surely figure into the equation.
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Rick Davis
1325 posts
Feb 19, 2013
2:31 PM
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Uh, it's pretty easy, tmf. At least is is for the people I know who use it. Everybody eventually finds his optimum combination. Ya just gotta listen.
And I'd say 90% of the people who spew statistics make the number up on the spot! LOL
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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SuperBee
933 posts
Feb 19, 2013
2:32 PM
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wretched captcha made me lose my last post..
yes, apologies Harpninja. i mistook TIT's post above your "foolish" post as also being from you. that mistake gave me the impression you had posted the "foolish" remark as a gratuitous afterthought, a deliberate insult.
My bad, sorry.
your posts do feel pretty personal though. you open by saying i wouldn't be able to assess the pedal and then come back to say i'm foolish to think it would be useful in my situation. i'd accept "ignorant"; it was my first experience with a noise gate, and the thing was being touted by some as an alternative (only better)to the Kinder device.
this is why i think its important to share my experience. and to point out to others who may be equally ignorant or misled about the nature of the device.
anyway, now i do feel a little foolish. the point though, is that it isn't about me, except insofar as the setting in which one uses the pedal is relevant.
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tmf714
1498 posts
Feb 19, 2013
2:38 PM
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How do you set yours up Rick? Just curious.
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Rick Davis
1326 posts
Feb 19, 2013
2:41 PM
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It depends. It changes from from one venue to the next and sometimes even from night to night. As I said, you just listen. How do you set yours up?
Just curious.
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Feb 19, 2013 2:42 PM
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timeistight
1127 posts
Feb 19, 2013
2:47 PM
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"Most of us go to blues jams and play an occasional weekend warrior gig. The guitar players and drummers are, uh, excitable. Sound levels exceed the noise gated threshold in a hurry."
This is what I'm having trouble understanding. If your excitable band mates are loud enough in your harp mic to open the gate, then they must be as loud in the mic as your harp. Therefore you're sharing your amp with the drum and guitar. How can that be a good thing?
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Playing music... it's a privilege.
Kim Wilson
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tmf714
1499 posts
Feb 19, 2013
2:50 PM
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Welcome to the 90 percentile Rick-
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Rick Davis
1327 posts
Feb 19, 2013
2:52 PM
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Timeistight, I don't think it is a good thing. If your stage volume overwhelms the distinction the noise gate makes between you playing and not playing then it is not going to work to reduce feedback or anything else. It will be all or nothing.
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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timeistight
1128 posts
Feb 19, 2013
2:57 PM
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"If your stage volume overwhelms the distinction between you playing and not playing", then how can you be heard? You may as well shut off your amp and pretend to play.
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Playing music... it's a privilege.
Kim Wilson
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Rick Davis
1328 posts
Feb 19, 2013
2:59 PM
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LOL, tmf, you such a pitiful troll. If you are so itching to share your method, go ahead! I'll be happy to discuss it with you. As I said, the settings vary (sometimes quite a bit). The most important step is to calibrate correctly for the mic you are using. And the second most important step is ignore ignorant trolls and just listen.
Are we clear?
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Rick Davis
1329 posts
Feb 19, 2013
3:06 PM
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"If it sounds good it IS good." -- Duke Ellington
"WAH! Yur doin it wrong!" -- tmf
LOL
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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SuperBee
934 posts
Feb 19, 2013
3:27 PM
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TIT, its not really like that. rick means it overwhelms the capacity of the shield to tell the difference. it may be the crash symbol that is setting it off, say. or a particular passage in a song...say the guitar kick up in volume for a lead passage..suddenly your signal path opens and your amp is squealing.
what i found was that it meant i really couldn't play with dynamics when i used the shield, as it would be closing when i played softly. if i increased the sensitivity to allow me to play softly, the signal path was more likely to be opened by something else on stage. it made things somewhat unpredictable. additionally, it did not allow me to get any louder before feedback anyway. see earlier comments re volume controls and on/off switches. i didn't have a problem in that way, i was just looking for some more headroom.
there is a limit to it, thats all. an acoustic harp is not very loud. its quite easy for an amplified guitar or a drum kit to be as loud as your harp. you live and learn. i understand a lot more about the harp shield from my experience. and since i stopped playing with that band and used some smaller amps i have found situations where the harp shield could be useful.
there has been a bit of hype about the pedal IMHO. its misleading to present it as an alternative or competitor to the Kinder pedal. that doesn't mean its useless. its just important to understand what it is, how it works, what situations it will be useful in and where it will be useless or even detrimental.
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timeistight
1129 posts
Feb 19, 2013
3:38 PM
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I'm not sure where the hype comes in. From what I can see, Randy Landry has been very clear about what the pedal does and does not do. Much clearer than John Kinder is about his, it seems to me.
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Playing music... it's a privilege.
Kim Wilson
Last Edited by timeistight on Feb 19, 2013 4:57 PM
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Rick Davis
1330 posts
Feb 19, 2013
3:40 PM
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LW has a good return policy...
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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MJ
573 posts
Feb 19, 2013
4:04 PM
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@Timesight. I am not selling this, I only brought it to the attention of any interested party. :)
Last Edited by MJ on Feb 19, 2013 4:13 PM
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1847
529 posts
Feb 19, 2013
4:35 PM
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i plug my mic. into the imput of the kinder box
the blue light comes on
i plug in to the output adjust the calib. so the light flickers
then adjust the other knobs to suit
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timeistight
1130 posts
Feb 19, 2013
5:05 PM
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"people often seemed inclined to discuss it in parallel to the kinder device."
Why shouldn't they be discussed in parallel? They're both anti-feedback devices.
Besides, you haven't actually tried a Kinder yet, right SuperBee? Maybe it isn't everything you've heard it is.
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Playing music... it's a privilege.
Kim Wilson
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Pockets
13 posts
Feb 19, 2013
5:07 PM
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@ SuperBee - I should have clarified alittle in my original post, which is entirely my fault.
To elaborate, I do gig on weekends, where i find (due to having an extremely loud drummer) that feedback becomes abit of a problem for me with various setups i have been trying.
I was weighing the options of a AFB+ vs. a Harp Shield from a matter of a financial investment (due to price) and to see if i could figure out which would be the better purchase.
I do practice at home in a spare bedroom.... but I also play with a drummer.... and two other guitarists.
It sounds to me, based on everyone's comments above, the AFB+ functionality would better suit my needs.
Thank you to everyone for the advice and personal experiences!
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SuperBee
936 posts
Feb 19, 2013
5:48 PM
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Timeistight, yes they are perhaps both able to be classified as anti-feedback devices. i just dont think that is the most useful description. perhaps "in parallel" is not exactly what i mean
i can't search the forum at the moment, but here is an example of an endorsement i think is not useful in understanding the application of the pedal:
"I even tried the expensive sacred 'BLUE' pedal, but I must agree with Jason that the HARP SHIELD is superior for several reasons:
1. The Cost is 1/3 of the 'blue' pedal and much easier to 'attain' no offense to the gentleman.
2. The Noise Gate circuitry is the BEST I've ever seen bar-none and specifically made for Harp players.
3. Ease of use with just one Sensitivity Knob which works fantastically and the great 'panic button' foot switch is really nice to have just in case but you'll see that you'll rarely need to use it because of the superior gate technology.
4. It's just a GREAT product that does what is says, it's a wonderful design and I think every Harp player should have at LEAST this pedal in their setup. I don't think I'll be able to go back after using the HARP SHIELD. Be forewarned! This pedal is addictive and will inspire you to play wonderful FEEDBACK FREE riffs for hours and hours.
And lastly:
5. Do it for the FANS!!!! They don't want to hear all that squealing and howling from your Harp Amp for goodness sakes!!!! Geeze!!! ;)"
so, the harp shield is "superior" to the sacred blue pedal. does that not strongly imply it is directly comparable?
in what way is it comparable? because its also an anti-feedback device? I think in this instance, given the concepts involved, that directly comparing the pedals as anti-feedback devices, with a view to saying one is superior is not especially useful.
my entire point re this is that they are different concepts and have different applications. it would be more useful to discuss the situations in which they may help. that is what i have been endeavouring to do.
you are correct that i don't know about the kinder from personal experience, which is why i have made no statements about the merits of that pedal. i do not think it is controversial to say it is not a noise gate, and i accept what others have said about its application.
i am not sure why you seem to take issue with what i've had to say about this. i thought i'd been clear and unbiased. in fact my entire motivation for sharing my experience is to help. any criticism i have surrounding the matter is entirely about statements such as the one i have quoted above in this post, which i find unhelpful and even somewhat misleading. the author of that statement also initiated a thread on the topic on this forum, to with an OP in a similiar vein to his endorsement which i have partially quoted above.
maybe others think its fair enough. i don't. my opinion. you're welcome to have your own.
i think i've been clear and transparent in what i've had to say. i hope so, because that is my only purpose in saying anything on this topic. Goodwill is all i'm about in this thread.
on the topic of Electric Mud, that's another story...\;o)
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1847
530 posts
Feb 19, 2013
7:05 PM
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first of all pretty sure rick has sussed out his pedal
it's not that comp-licated
if it sounds good you have it right
if it sounds bad change the battery
i just bought the hot stone supply
works with the wireless and the kinder
thanks rick with helping me get the right cables!
i have loaned my pedal to a friend of mine
he is a better harp player than anybody i know
he likes it a lot
he just bought a harp shield
he plays in a loud blues band
he said he loves it!
that was two weeks ago
i will be talking to him soon we will see if he still feels that way
i will also borrow it to see for myself.
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HarpNinja
3212 posts
Feb 20, 2013
11:27 AM
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I went to the Shield on eBay three times and had to talk myself out of buying it. 1.) I don't have the money. 2.) I don't have room on my board. 2.) I don't need it.
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HarpNinja
3213 posts
Feb 20, 2013
11:29 AM
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"UPDATE 10/21/12 - In response to some questions that I have received, I am adding the following information. The pedal requires a minimum level of signal from the mic to open the gate and when the signal drops back down to the same minimum level the gate will close. This function is not noticeable with the sensitivity set low (CCW) but is noticeable with the sensitivity set high (CW); but this is only a factor when playing softly. The pedal is not a silver bullet; it has its limitations. One is when the room acoustics are horrible for feedback, small and hard-walled (like a spare bedroom); it does not help at all. The second is a tight band setting that is very loud (all too common); this is due to the fact that when the sound levels hitting the microphone are too high, it can keep the gate open. In the last instance, one must also roll off the volume on the microphone when not playing. "
My room for jamming is exactly the WRONG kind of room, lol.
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