9000
143 posts
Feb 08, 2013
8:28 AM
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So, I bought one of the optimized Session Steels set up by David Payne and all of a sudden I was playing the 6OB...and playing it in phrases that were useful in a blues band setting. So, of course, now I want more. I'd appreciate your advice on what I should do next based on your experiences. I also purchased a very sweet GM massaged by Greg at 16:23 Custom Harmonicas. So...what's next guys. I'm trying to build on success and avoid frustration!
Thanks in advance!
Jay
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Music speaks where words fail.
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timeistight
1111 posts
Feb 08, 2013
8:40 AM
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5OB is the major 7th in second position (useful in country or pop) or the diminished 5th blue note in first position. 4OB is the minor 3rd in first position and, with the 5 and 6 OBs, allows you to play a middle-octave blues scale in first -- in fact, it gives you a one-octave chromatic scale from 4 blow to 7 blow.
Add the 7OD to those and you've got a two-ocatve chromatic scale from the 2 blow to the 8 blow.
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Playing music... it's a privilege.
Kim Wilson
Last Edited by timeistight on Feb 08, 2013 9:08 AM
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Pistolcat
366 posts
Feb 08, 2013
9:15 AM
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What do you mean "do next"? Which harp to buy? Which OB to learn next? What kind of phrases? The advice above is good. Six OB is extremely useful as a flat seven in first. You can use it in first as would you 2'' (draw double bend) in second position.
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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Martin
231 posts
Feb 08, 2013
10:05 AM
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How does that OB sound? They are a bit iffy to find within the note framework (mine tend to be slightly flat) and being able to intone more precisly in this respect is a good "next".
OB´s are easy -- if you can bend you can OB -- and the brouhaha about them are a bit mysterious to me.
Playing good is difficult.
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Moon Cat
145 posts
Feb 08, 2013
11:27 AM
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Try moving all your licks from the bottom octave that use the 3-bend half step/b3rd up to that 2nd octave. try improvising them too so you can just start thinking up there on the spot the waY you do on the bottom. then for the 5 OB do the same find all the cool places little walter and others used it as a passing tone and move it up. their are great minor scales that use the #5/4 OB (For Cross) that can be used n blues (Saint James etc...) thats a good start and like Timesight said it the minor 3rd/b3rd/blue 3rd in first position OR.... drum roll the IV chord. Holy cats!!!! That means all the notes can change value with the chords! Dun Dun DAAAAAHHH! This shit goes forever! Then write Dave Payne a thank you note and plan a west Virginia Vacation. Congratulations Jay!!!!
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Moon Cat
146 posts
Feb 08, 2013
11:42 AM
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What Im maybe not being so very clear about is: That in 2nd pos. the IV cord can be treated/viewed as 1st position as a short cut to understading note values and the V chord as 3rd position so the notes CAN change value if used in way that implicates such mischief. for EX. the 6 OB in cross is as we know a b3d but in 1st this note if treated so becomes a b7 and the same 6 OB on the V chord (or 3rd position is mow a #3) Holy changing meow meow intervals! BTW my Captcha code is 6 C PUNK! Woah!~
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Moon Cat
147 posts
Feb 08, 2013
11:46 AM
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( Now # 5 )sorry
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9000
144 posts
Feb 08, 2013
4:27 PM
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Thanks for the great feedback! This reminds me how much I play from muscle memory and that I need to really think through the scales, chords to make use of the other OBs available. I only practice the 6OB within the context of a lick or 2 so that it will continue to become more useful. BTW Dave Payne got an immediate thanks after that 6OB popped out! Fun stuff!
Jay
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Music speaks where words fail.
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RyanMortos
1383 posts
Feb 08, 2013
4:41 PM
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Practice practice practice all sorts of scales with the overblows and overdraws. Practice with a chromatic tuner or piano work on intonation. Each over bend takes as much effort as a perfect 3', 3", 3"' note. There are some great teachers out there who can help you add these to your playing.
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~Ryan
See My Profile for contact info, etc.
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RyanMortos
1384 posts
Feb 08, 2013
4:48 PM
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I don't really like licks (they seem to cause redundancy in my playing) but it is helpful to do something like
R 3b 4 3b R in all 3 octaves like:
2D 3D' 4B 3D' 2D
6B 6B* 7B 6B* 6B
9B 10B" 10B 10B" 9B
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~Ryan
See My Profile for contact info, etc.
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harpdude61
1615 posts
Feb 08, 2013
5:59 PM
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I'm with Martin here. How does the OB sound? Do you always have to lead in with 6 blow? Can you play 7 blow and go right to 6 overblow? Sounding the overblow is a long way from using it musically.I'm currently practicing the blues scale in 1st and 2nd position from top to bottom of the harp.Do you enjoy wailing on 4 draw and bending. Learning the 7 overdraw and bending it up will give a similar effect in the next octave.
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arzajac
980 posts
Feb 09, 2013
4:40 AM
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What about using the 6OB and 7OD and playing the blues scale starting on the 6B? If you can bend the 6OB even a semitone (or even a little less) you can make it the perfect shade of blue. You only need the 7OD as a passing note to be useful.
The 7OD is a little like the 6OB in that you can probably get it to sound on most harmonicas with a little gapping.
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Frank
1987 posts
Feb 09, 2013
2:46 PM
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....One way to avoid frustration is... giving yourself a realistic time frame to be able to use them like Jason, Carlos, Howard or Adam. THOROUGHLY enjoying the learning journey will get you to your destination with a smile on your face. And remember that mastering the use of only one overblow is better then being able to play 5 of them halfassed! Stay focused and don't rush the process, that will only result in becoming a mediocre player faster :)
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Stevelegh
688 posts
Feb 10, 2013
8:43 AM
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This thread is a testament to this forum. A guy asks a question and one of the world's premier players pitches in with advice.
Following on from Frank's great advice. I've found that OB's tend to feel very intuitive. When you start playing harp in 1st, the notes seem to lay out. When you get better, and use different positions, you find yourself looking for those notes you're missing by overblowing.
I'd suggest looking on YouTube and finding Christelle Berthon's channel and checking out her versions of Yesterday and Sir Duke. She's really the Queen of melody based harp playing. I find her stuff really educational because it's not random improvisation.
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harpdude61
1616 posts
Feb 11, 2013
8:21 AM
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"You only need the 7OD as a passing note to be useful."
I find it useful as a wailing note as well. Once you learn to bend it up 1/2 step to pitch, you can wail between the 1/2 steps just like you do on 4 hole draw.
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arzajac
982 posts
Feb 11, 2013
8:45 AM
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Harpdude: Absolutely! It is a very expressive overbend.
I didn't elaborate but what I was getting at was that the 7OD is a lot like the 6OB in that it is somewhat easy to attain. To set up a harp for the 7 OD is fairly straightforward and technique-wise, it's not the hardest overdraw to hit.
Much like the 6OB is the "gateway into overblowing", I think the 7OD is a first-line overbend to master. But it's underrated. Maybe it's because lots of people just practice the 4, 5 and 6 OB and stop there.
If I had to do it all over again, maybe I'd work on getting the 7OD as soon as I'd gotten the 6OB instead of getting the 4 and the 5 just for the sake of getting them - I had no use for them at the time. Again, the 6 and 7 overbends are very useful for second position playing even if you only use them as passing notes.
...Just my two cents.
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Last Edited by arzajac on Feb 11, 2013 8:46 AM
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harpdude61
1617 posts
Feb 12, 2013
7:08 AM
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Well said arzajac... If cross harp is your thing.. I would also learn 7 OD after 6 OB. I also agree that 7 od is under-rated and under-used!
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HarpNinja
3188 posts
Feb 12, 2013
11:34 AM
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I use the 7OD as a wail note in most keys. I use the 4-5 a lot less. I cannot imagine playing blues harp and not playing the 6 ob. I mean, tune down the 7 draw then...that note is just way too important in cross.
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Custom Harmonicas
Optimized Harmonicas
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HarpNinja
3189 posts
Feb 12, 2013
11:35 AM
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On the optimized harps like that, for anyone looking into them, they are setup to OB 6 and the 4 and 5 should be there with some effort. That is pretty clear on the site, but they aren't meant to OB like a full custom. They are a ridiculous value and Dave Payne should be a harp-national treasure.
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Custom Harmonicas
Optimized Harmonicas
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BAG
137 posts
Feb 12, 2013
3:10 PM
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I use the 6 OB and the 7OD regularly when blowing from one octave to the next, up or down in 2nd position blues. Love the 9 OD in 3rd position blues, but you'll probably want the 4OB and 5 OB before messing with that. Most people do. I never have figured out the 1 or the 3 OB yet. Still enjoying the journey.
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Twitter ~ BossoBrewingCo
Soundcloud: http://soundcloud.com/bag-5
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harpdude61
1618 posts
Feb 13, 2013
5:37 AM
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I agree BAG. I love the 9 overdraw in 3rd position. Same note as 6 draw bent 1/2 step.
Playing 3 octaves of the blues scale in 1st position requires 1,4,5,6 ob...Thats why most players leave the middle octave out when playing blues in first.
If you can get those three OBs down in the middle octave you can sure play some mean and nasty minor blues in 1st.
3 ob does not get you anything you do not already have available.
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