Rollin' & Tumblin' has been one of our tunes for years. But we allways did it to a standard 12 bar blues progression. Our guitar player heard a different version from what we have done and suggested some we try something new. After doing some research, I'm rather confused. I have found SO MANY different interpretations of the tune.
I want to know if there is a consensus as to the most popular "bar form". Via Youtube I heard:
One chord only. (Elmore James ) Standard 12 bar. 12 1/2 bars (Muddy Waters ) 12 1/4 bar (R L Burnside)
My guitar player has suggested an 18 bar form
So before talking chord changes, what "bar form" do you consider "the right form"??
Listening to the Muddy Waters and Baby face Leroy versions, I get 18 bars. I'd never play this by strictly counting, though. You can just hang on the I I until the singer or the soloist indicates the change to the IV (two verses) or the V (last verse), however long that is. ----------
The chordal structure, however, departs from that of twelve-bar blues. The defining feature of the song is that the first verse begins on the IV chord, rather than on the more usual I chord (e.g., in the key of C this would be the F chord rather than the C chord). After the first two measures the IV chord resolves to the I chord. Often the IV chord moves to IV?7 on the second measure or the last two beats of the second measure.
I asked Joe Filisko about this song and have a lesson recorded somewhere.
What he told me in a nut shell is that Goinn Away baby by Little Walter/Jimmy Rogers is Rollin' and Tumblin' with different lyrics, and these songs are based on the form of John Lee Williamson's Lord Oh Lord blues.
A lot of people play it in 3 9 bar sections, but it is an eight bar with an extra lick at the end,
Some people square square it off to an eight bar but this makes it sound rushes.
Joe's advice was get the melody in your hear and feel it, counting it off can lead to problems.
Rollin' & Tumblin' goes back to the country blues traditions where irregular time and bar lengths were not uncommon so there's no surprise that there are so many different versions out there. With the old country blues that were originally done prior to Robert Johnson being on the scene, time and more rigidly structured tunes were often not something you saw very often and when I played with someone like that, it was just shut up and pay attention 24/7, as what Muddy once said in an interview, was that they changed whenever the hell they felt like it and if they don't change, you don't change, which means paying attention 24/7 and don't get locked into the obvious. Joe Filisko is telling you exactly what I'm gonna tell you when you're doing country blues, and this can get tough to learn for some people, but in order to get comfortable with these things, you gotta listen to a lot of it and work with it as much as possible with it because the stuff you normally would do as a band, where things are gonna be more tightly structured, just ain't gonna fly, and this is from experience. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I'm not even hearing a IV chord on the Baby Face version. Just a repetition pf the phrase where the chord change would come, but without an actual a chord change.
Even the V chord is just hinted at by where the melody goes, supported by single bass notes on the guitar.
To me, this tune sounds like it goes back to before chord changes were added to songs from African American rural vocal traditions.
And yeah, I agree about the "follow the singer" approach to how long the phrase - or the "treading water" fill-in between phrases - lasts. I first learned this loose approach to phrase lengths while accompanying Canadian aboriginal country singers, who were like country blues singers in this regard.
---------- Winslow
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Feb 07, 2013 3:37 PM
The Baby Face Leroy version is very much like the the Muddy Waters version. Waters cut his shortly after playing on the other session to placate Leonard Chess, who was mad about his artist (Waters) playing on a session for a rival label.
I agree that the IV chords are more implied than spelled out.
It starts on the IV chord; it doesn't play the I until the instrumental riff after the verse. It does that (goes to the IV) for two verses and then goes to the V on the last one.
There's no turnaround, it just hangs on the I until it goes up to the IV four the next verse. ----------
Playing music... it's a privilege.
Kim Wilson
Last Edited by timeistight on Feb 07, 2013 5:46 PM
I now feel justified in doing whatever I want to do with this song, and that's just what I'll do. I have a mixed group of talents to keep together, and I'm not going to do ANYTHING on the edge of strange. By the same token, I'm already contmeplating an 18 bar version, and that's strange enough in my book. But I refuse to go with any 1/2 or 1/4 beat measures. ---------- theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
i count this.... 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 ......................and 2 and 2 and 3 and 4 ......................and 3 and 2 and 3 and 4 ......................and 4 and 2 and 3 and 4 ....................."and a"... 5 and 2 and 3 and 4
it is 4 bars and a measure of "and ...a" it is a 12 bar blues with a twist there is always ways to count things
having said that, some of this stuff comes from the plantation where they worked sun up to sundown. all they had was a saturday night fry up some catfish swill some corn liquor pretty sure there was no strict time keeping going on.
At first when I looked at that 27 bar tab I said,"no way". But after looking at it a few moments I realized what I was seeing.
It's a 13 1/2 bar tab doubled. It actually makes for a better description than saying,"add half a measure every 4 measures" ---------- theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
