(Found this via superchucker77
198 posts
Nov 10, 2009
5:36 PM
Benjamin Darvill, aka. Son of Dave, is one of my absolute favorite harmonica musicians. The man is pure genius with how he melds his music together using beatboxing, harmonica and vocals blended into a fine balance using a looping pedal. He is incredible. ---------- Brandon Bailey
He integrates the different parts well. He sounds much more bluesy than the other harpboxers I've seen. They tend to seem to be beatboxers who took up harmonica rather than the other way round.
I started another thread on this topic, but it seems applicable here:Anyone have an idea as to what specific loop pedal he uses? ---------- GO SAINTS! crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
Thanks, Tooka. @ nacoran, now that I know which one Son of Dave uses, it will narrow my search, and yes, I will try one out. ---------- GO SAINTS! crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
Son of Dave uses the Akai Headrush E2 Delay/Looper pedal. http://www.akaipro.com/e2headrush
I use one myself, and I like it A LOT. I really love it for its looping abilities as well as it's analoge delay. Just play around with it for a half hour, and your sure to figure out its functions. ---------- Brandon Bailey
This 'harpboxing' thing is very cool...and combined with the looping effect opens up a whole world of one-man-band possibilities. Thanks for sharing this. ---------- GO SAINTS! crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
Last Edited by on Nov 12, 2009 6:16 AM
that was cool nice rythem and flow going on,what kind of peddal would you need to do what hes doing with the loops?
Last Edited by on Nov 11, 2009 6:53 PM
@Elwood-haha! I think Old Wailer may have the wrong 'Son' in mind...
I was actually very inspired by watching this 'harpboxing' thing-In the '80s, when beatboxing came into the forefront on the new rap scene thruough the work of Biz Markie et al, even though I never really appreciated rap, this beat-boxing phenomenon caught my ear, and I began doing it for fun. I also thought Bobby McFerrin's use of 'body percussion' along with his voice emulating instruments as well as singing was innovative. I've done both of these things more as a novelty(just because I could)over the years, even providing rhythm for my bands in practice when drummers would be late, but never in live performance. Seeing this truly inspired me. I may change my name to Sideshow Bob now...
---------- GO SAINTS! crescentcityharmonicaclub@gmail.com
Last Edited by on Nov 12, 2009 6:27 AM
If you like this kind of stuff , loop based beatboxing , and some good sax ( not mississippi sax ) ,everything created live , check this guys out , I like them:
OMFG Sorin these two guys are amazing i just sat and watched that utterly spellbound and gobsmaked, don't it make you sick that talent like this goes unknown when those two talentless twats John and Edward are getting famous on X factor!
I personally have never had a problem with background noise from the pedal. To me, it seems quite clear. Also, you have to keep in mind that most of the people on musicians friend are using it for guitar rather than harmonica. Their expectations are of course different. ---------- Brandon Bailey
superchucker77 or anybody with knowledge/experience using this stuff - did you consider any other looping pedals before picking the Akai? I'm wondering how it compared to them, and how you decided on it versus something else? Basically what were the deciding features?
e.g. The RP355 is about the same price and includes looping along with the other Digitech effects. Is seems to have a comparable loop time, but is there something that it's lacking?
Or would it be nice to have much longer loop times?
I did consider several other pedals, but for me, a number of factors influenced the purchase of the Akai looper.
1. Price. The akai is one of the least expensive pedals on the market, other than the small Boss RC-10. However, it is around the same price as the RC-20/
2. Multi switch design. I prefered the two buttons on the Akai over the single button of the RC-10 or the multi button setups of some other pedals.
3. Simplicity. The akai is one of the most simplistic pedals on the market. Step on the right switch to start the recording, step on the left switch to begin playback, and step on the right foot switch again to overdub. Right switch controls the recording/overdub functions, Left switch conrtols on/off function. That setup is easier for me than having to step on the same switch multiple times in a row while still trying to keep the beat.
4. Son of Dave and K.T. Tunstel use it :)
Final point: Looping time. Other pedals have siginificantly longer loop times, due to more onboard memory. The Akai model can only record up to 35.6 seconds in extended mode. This may seem like a very small frame of time, but in reality it is quite a bit depending upon how you use it. I can not record a long multi minute bass line, but I can record a simple repeating bassline and add layer after layer of overdub on top of it. There is no limit to how many overdubs you can add.
If you feel the need to have several minutes of initial recording time, and the ability to actually store your loopes to memory, another pedal would be a good idea. However, if you want to be able to record a beat ot hum a bassline and overdub over it like Son of Dave and K.T. Tunstel, the Akai model is the way to go.
Finally: The Akai Headrush E2 is also equiped with both digital and analoge delay modes. I personally use the analoge delay very often, and it is a very very versital functioin. The one problem is that you can not use these different modes at the same time, such as you cannot use the looping function at the same time as using the delay. ---------- Brandon Bailey
Well it would really depend upon how you are using the pedal. I have seen were multi instrumentalists have used long loop times and built very incredible songs up. I'm sure that this can also be done with the harmonica. I think that i'ts is a bit much to say that you are only limited to "one chord" with a shorter loop time. You are however limited to a shorter looping time, but it is generally enough time to make several shord changes. You are however limited to "one chord progression". ---------- Brandon Bailey
superchucker77 - I did an search for information about KT Tunstall's setup and came across the following. Is this similar (minus the guitar) to your setup?
"(1) The AKAI has 2 outputs! ("Mix" and "Head Effect") . Operator's manual DOES NOT mention this and I have already notified AKAI on this matter. Anyways, have 2 outputs means that you can plug one into dedicated amp or channel which is where looped tracks (wet) can be controlled and ALSO plug into ANOTHER amp for your guitar (dry).
(2) KT uses: Akai Headrush 2, 4 channel mixer (doesn't matter what brand), split cables (cables shapped in Y formation), and a Boss tuner (white). She does NOT use a channel switch b/c this type of switch has only one input or output. It's a Boss TU-2 tuner to mute the channel she's not using while looping. You can see the arc formation on the pedal that tells u it's a tuner.
(3) Basically, here's her set up. Follow carefully:
- She uses split Y cables for her guitar and another Y cable for her microphone (hence the Y formation). Guitar chord with two 1/4 jacks, Mic with two male XLR jacks ..let's call them split cables Guitar A,B / Mic A, B) - Guitar A + Mic A go directly into House PA - Guitar B + Mic B go into a small mixer on stage - Mixer to Akai - Akai goes in to House PA.
RESULT: 3 channels are used on house PA (guitar only, voice only, loop of guitar/voice only)
I personally do not set it up like this b/c I do very little singing and don't need a Y for vocal. I also dont like using so many cables and most importantly b/c of (1) above"
Actually, my setup is much simpler than that, although her setup if very interesting and my prove to be very useful.
What I do is very simple. I only use the Akai's input, and main output which is labled "Mix".
I plug my microphone or wireless system output into the input of Akai using a 1/4" plug. I then have a 1/4" to 1/4" plug going from the Akai "Mix" jack to my amplifier. Generally at gigs, I will then just have the amp miced. I will usually sing through any avaliable vocal microphone and also have a vocal mic set up on the floor of the stage to pick up my stomping. I also have a mic setup by my right hand to pick up my shacker. ---------- Brandon Bailey
Back to Son of Dave, I have to say I'm amazed. I think this is the future of blues harp. Or one future. Maybe a post-apocalyptic future, with or without zombies, your choice. Do I digress?
Yeah - I would love to see Adam experiment with this style. I think that he could pull it off. A little background on the artist known as "Son of Dave":
wow, thats one complicated looking machine. I have never seen the boomerang before. Currently, Mr. Gussow is going in the more traditional foot drum direction. Currently, I think that I am one of the few people experimenting with Son of Dave's style. You can hear what I do by clicking on the link to my youtube channel below. ---------- Brandon Bailey
Actually, Son of Dave has an apprentice of sorts - a South African harp player named Dave (no relation) who took what SoD was doing in London and brought it down to South Africa.
I think he started doing a cover of Lowrider before SoD did, so at least they're copying each other. Here's his song 'White Girl':
@Sorin: Holy shit! Thank you so much for posting the vid of Dub FX up here. That was so freaking amazing! I just loved it! Unbelievable.
@superchucker: I love KT Tunstell too! She does really cool looping, and is great singer. I saw her on Austin City limits, and it was super cool. Another band you should check out is The Heartless Bastards. If you love K T, you'll really love them. They use a looper on a couple songs too.
@ general thread: I've had an urge to do this kind of looping for a while, but I'm too poor to buy even the cheapest looping pedal. I started to build my own one a few months back. I had it working on the breadboard, but somehow I screwed it up when I moved it to perfboard and boxed it up. It's sitting around waiting to be debugged as soon as I have time (which will be months form now!). In the meantime I modified my Danelectro Fab echo to have infinite repeats and adjustable delay time. You get about half a second at max delay time, but the signal degrades within about a minute or two to white noise (kind of cool, but not really good for a true looper/sampler effect)... If you set the repeats to be like 30 or so, and the delay time to be like 1/4 second, you can get a cool "call and response" thing. One thing I do is I set up an FX loop pedal I built that splits the signal so I can true bypass the Fab delay. This lets me always keep the delay "on" but externally route the signal around it if I want, while still have the output wet signal be routed to the second input of my amp (which has a two input mixer on board). This way, If can stomp the fx loop closed, but the remaining amount of delay decay still goes into the amp, avoiding the "hard" off like if I just stomped on the delay's internal bypass. Another cool thing I use this setup for is to use two amps (one solid state and one tube), and use the FX loop pedal to split the signal, sending the delayed signal to the solid state amp, and the dry signal to the tube amp. I set the delay to a low time, and only a few repeats. This gives a very cool "3D" like sound when you set the amps up several feet apart on either side of you...
It strikes me now, that I ought to make vids of these things, as that would explain it better than words... I just need to get the time!
Keith, yeah. I was using the ISD 1760 chip. The old ISD 2500 series were easier to make loop (they had a built in seamless loop function), but they are now sadly obsolete. I got a prebuilt "testing" module with the 60 second 1760 chip on it from digikey, so all I needed was to figure out how to make it loop properly, and then attach some real stomp switches and some jacks. The 1700 series has a "continuous playback" mode, but there is a short gap between repeats, which defies the point. I was able to get it to seamlessly loop by feeding back the signal into the "play" pin of the chip. The play function is engaged when the voltage at that pin goes to 0, so, when the output signal is fed back to it, as soon as the track stops playing, "play" is pushed again. Pretty seamless, but required some extra circuitry, which I apparently cocked up when soldering it to the perf board. It's just sitting there 90% complete waiting to be finished! I had it working on the breadboard, and it was pretty cool.... I should really finish it...
Here's another vid from Dub FX explaining how he layers his loops together to make a full song. Then shows you and plays the song. Freakin unbelievable... Apparently he uses an octaver do the bass lines. Sounds like a POG or HOG rather than something like an OC2. He uses the octave up or down when he is singing on some of his tracks too. It makes his voice different, and allows him to sound like there are multiple singers/rappers when it's really just him. He also uses delay a lot too to give a spacey echoey feel to his vocals and some of his beat tracks... He has multiple looper/samplers going on, each with multiple tracks and sound on sound overdubbing... Sweet!
Issac - with your ISD1760 and external triggering logic do you get a seamless loop (no dead time, and no popping)? I would be interested in seeing what it took to do that. If you wanted to add overdubs would that require two ISD1760s?
Keith, yeah, it was pretty seamless. I honestly can't remember if there was any "pop" or not, but I don't think so. Yeah, you'd need two chips to get two tracks becasue the ISD chips don't allow sound-on-sound recording. ie. if you record on a track, it erases whatever was there before. Technically, you can ADD onto the END of a track, but I don't think that's especially useful in a DIY looper. FYI, I didn't really come up with this idea myself. There has been three DIY loopers out there for awhile now,a nd you can get schmatics for them through google. Search for Mobius Trip Looper at generalguitargadgets.com, Payback (version 2) at the Tone God website, and the Radioshack looper at Instructables.com. Unfortuantely, all of these seem to rely on obsolete chips or modules (all based on the obsolete ISD 25xx series chips). You can get a kit from Qkits.com for $15 for that kind of looper, but you'll have to get the chip elsewhere (ISD 2540 chip). I think smallbear electronics might have a few, but I don;t know how much they are selling for...
By the way, the ISD 17xx chips come in various record length. I used the 60 second one (ISD 1760), but there are 20, 40, 90, and 120 second ones too. This link (http://store.qkits.com/moreinfo.cfm/QK188) shows the module I used (that's a 40 second one, though). It's going for around $30. The one I got was like $15 because I got it as a "developers" kit when these chips were still new. I don't know if they still do that or not... ---------- ------------------ The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Isaac - maybe I'll order 1 or 2 boards from digikey. Their prices look good. I don't think that Payback v2 has been published yet though. This looks like it could be a fun project. An alternate approach would be to stream audio to/from SD or CF cards, but that could be frustrating. A friend of mine bought a fancy looper years ago and it was really sensitive to the exact make of CF cards.
This might make a good idea for a Christmas present for my nephew too if I could hack something together quickly.
Last Edited by on Nov 14, 2009 10:26 PM
On a past post I had said that I hated beatboxing and harp and this was based on watching some ejit called Uri Lane on youtube but after seeing this I take it all back. That version of Bonkers was fecking excellent.
I didn't know that "Son of Dave" influenced KT Tunstall - ...as told to Andy Ellis ,Jun 27, 2006 in Guitar Player:
"When did you discover looping and how did you work it into your music?
I discovered looping relatively recently, actually. I wrote “Black Horse and the Cherry Tree” after the album was completely done and dusted. The song wasn’t on the original U.K. album, though it was added to the U.S. release. A year ago last September, I was about to embark on a solo tour of coffee shops in Scotland, and I couldn’t face anyone even thinking I was going to do “Smelly Cat” by Phoebe from Friends. You know, that horrible girl-with-guitar stigma. People would see me walk in, and that’s what they’d think. It’s a forgivable reaction. I’ve been in coffee shops when the girl starts singing, and it can really make you scared. So come on, girls, no more suicidal purgings. [Laughs.]
After recording the album with a drummer and bass player, and really experiencing the depth and color of having other instruments—including wonderful old Moog synths—in my music, it just wasn’t enough to go out and play guitar and sing. I’d seen this great Canadian artist, Son of Dave [Benjamin Darvill]. He is a crazy blues singer with a ginger quiff, huge aviator glasses, and a blue nylon suit and ruffled shirt. He has a harmonica, a shaker, an old mic, and this loop pedal, and he loops [human] beatbox rhythms, adds the shaker, puts in harmonica riffs, and sings dirty blues over the top. And it’s fantastic. I saw him and thought, “I can do that!” It was a moment of realization, understanding that if I hit the guitar, I can get drum beats. Suddenly I had a drum machine—it was brilliant. I can’t tell you how excited I was—and still am—to go into the rehearsal room or soundcheck and come up with new beats. Thanks to the looper, my coffee-shop shows were kick-ass. I’d end up with a nice little crowd, and people got into it. Now I’ve integrated looping into my music, even when I play with a band."
Bump! My wife got me S.O.D. CD for my birthday. "I want you to play like this." I said "fine" then enlightened her to the meaning of the term, Gear Acquisition Syndrome.
@BronzeWailer: Nice one! What did she say when you told her the cost of a decent looping pedal? On the plus side, perhaps she'll spring for one on your next birthday?
PS, Shake a Bone is really great, ain't it? ---------- == I S A A C ==
@Isaac. Yeah, it's great! Been listening to it non-stop, looping as it were. I even had the 20-somethings in the car grooving to it. She did mention something about Christmas, and even Father's Day (September in Oz) so I have my fingers crossed.
