Greg Heumann
1927 posts
Jan 06, 2013
9:57 AM
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Somewhere along the line I got it in my head that I had to have a Masco at least once in my life - it is legendary among harp players. I fell into this really clean ME-18 at a good price about a year ago. I did some work on it but wasn't happy with it. I decided to send it to Skip Simmons - the Masco king. Why not do it myself? Because I know the difference between skills and experience. I have the skills AND experience with Kalamazoo's to make them right - but no experience with the Masco. Skip is the man and my money was well spent. The stock amp had WAY too much gain, and the preamp design doesn't lend itself to simple tube substitution. Skip took care of it. Now I can get the volume control to 7 instead of 2, which gives much more manageable response
After trying several different speaker combos I bought a bare pine 2x10 cabinet and loaded it with a CTS Alnico (same speaker as in a Kalamazoo) and a Weber Sig 10. I went to the fabric store (because I'm too cheap to buy "authentic" grill cloth and tolex) and came home with the materials to cover the baffle board and cab - I wanted something funky that matched the color tones of the amp. Here's the result.
The amp is louder than a Kalamazoo and has great classic vintage tone, especially when cranked up to near the feedback zone. It is probably NOT loud enough for most jams - although I did have Skip put a line out circuit in just in case.....
More info on Skip at Skip Simmons Amp Repair
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/Greg
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2013 9:59 AM
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Kingley
2130 posts
Jan 06, 2013
10:03 AM
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Very nice indeed Greg. It looks superb. Now we just need to hear some clips of you playing it.
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Frank
1815 posts
Jan 06, 2013
10:20 AM
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Probably won't depreciate - How much $$ are you selling it for - "if your were" ? :)
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2013 10:21 AM
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Greg Heumann
1928 posts
Jan 06, 2013
10:32 AM
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Here's what I have in it:
250 for the amp
300 for the rebuild
175 for the cab
40 for covering materials, feet, handle
150 speaker value @ $75 ea
20 6SN7 tube
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$935
I'd have to sell it for over a grand.....
/Greg
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TetonJohn
50 posts
Jan 06, 2013
11:32 AM
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Greg, aside from volume, how do you think it compares to a Kali 2? (I suppose the background of the question is that I have one of your Kali2s, and also an early/mid 40's National with 2 6V6, 2 6J7 and 2 6SC7 metal tubes -- wondering if I have "the sound" covered pretty well or whether I should also be jonesin for a Masco!!???? -- I also have a '59 Champ clone.) What do you and OTHERS think? Thanks!
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MJ
542 posts
Jan 06, 2013
11:41 AM
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Very nice Gregg. It looks like a good fit to have in your front room, so you can relax,turn up,and noodle around a bit when you have the house to yourself. ;)
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2013 11:43 AM
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Joe_L
2308 posts
Jan 06, 2013
12:50 PM
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Greg - I remember talking to you about this thing. Did Skip mention if there were any bad parts? Did he restore it or do his thing to it?
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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Greg Heumann
1929 posts
Jan 06, 2013
1:39 PM
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@Teton - if push came to shove right now, I'd have to say I like the Kalamazoo tone better. But I haven't had a chance to really work this amp - with other musicians in performance.
@Joe - a little of both! The original power filter caps were, of course, bad - I had done a temp replacement to see what else was going on and at that point everything was working - but Skip replaced a baggie full of components anyway.
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/Greg
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Rick Davis
1122 posts
Jan 06, 2013
2:02 PM
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Yep, great amp. Looking forward to hearing you play it.
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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6SN7
243 posts
Jan 06, 2013
3:13 PM
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Nice rig. The Masco amplifier is the definitive tone monster. The functional design drips serious mojo, particularly when paired with a tasteful matching cabinet. You are going to be drawing a lot of stares when you strut your snake skin luggage with the matching beige lunchpail accoutrement in public.
I have a similar 2 x 10 cabinet for my Masco 17N , but also run the amp thru other speaker configurations. I find the amp works best in smaller clubs, without a lot of other loud amps. I use it for decided low-hi , 4-5 piece situations where were using vintage tweeds.
With all due respect, to this listeners ears, I believe the Masco kicks the Kalamazoo's butt. Serious industrial components coupled with a quality speakers and cabinetry is no match for an amp made from plywood and contact paper.
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2013 3:21 PM
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Rick Davis
1125 posts
Jan 07, 2013
8:33 AM
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I would have to agree with 6SN7 on this. No disrespect to Greg or to the little K-zoo amps, but the difference between the sound of a Masco and a Kalamazoo is pretty stark. Speaking as someone who has owned both amps, I strongly prefer the tone of the Masco.
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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HawkeyeKane
1347 posts
Jan 07, 2013
9:19 AM
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@6SN7 & Rick
To each his own...I've never played through a Masco and I haven't heard many clips of Mascos either. But from my own experience playing through other considerable amplifiers like my Alamo, my friends' respective Gretsch, Bogen head, Lectrolab, Sonny Jr., and Music Man, I'm with Greg in that the Zoos have a certain unique tone and quality to them that can be hard to match. There's a reason Gary and Greg have come to revere them, just as I've come to revere mine as well. That's not to say that Kalamazoos are better than the other amps I've played and heard played by others. But they are in their own league so to speak.
My 2 cents. *plink plink*
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Jan 07, 2013 9:20 AM
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Rick Davis
1129 posts
Jan 07, 2013
10:42 AM
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Yes, opinions vary. Here is mine: I like an amp that has the classic sag tone, has a deep warm sound, and not too much ratty distortion. That is the Masco, and the K-zoo is the complete opposite.
What the K-zoo has is a highly compressed, trelby distortion that many players like. I do to, but I like the Masco much more.
Little Walter is thought to have played through Masco amps. When you say "Gary" revered Kalamazoo amps I think you are referring to Gary Onofrio, or "Sonny Jr." In fact, his early amp designs were based on Masco circuits.
When it comes to gear discussions many players tend to defend their purchases. I've owned both amps and like them both. But for me the Masco is in a whole different class, tone-wise.
For me the K-zoo amps are fun little practice amps, kind of like my vintage Marvel amp. The Masco is a bigger recording/gigging amp with wonderful tone and sag. It is true the Masco amps at about 20 watts are right on that dividing line of "not loud enough for gigging," but they work well for bands with lower stage volume.
There are two players who have brought Kalamazoo amps to my blues jam. I dig the sound, but they just can't keep up (and they can't hear themselves) unless the rest of the band is REALLY sympathetic to what they are trying to do.
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by on Jan 07, 2013 10:50 AM
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HawkeyeKane
1352 posts
Jan 07, 2013
10:38 AM
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Yes, I was referring to Onofrio. And yes, I know his circuits were Masco-inspired. I had a conversation with him a couple years ago, not long after I had bought my Zoo from Greg. I asked if he had any ideas for possible tweaks to the Zoo. His response was that they were pretty optimal in stock form, said to leave the old girl alone, and that an old Spherodyne would be an ideal mic pairing. Said they were some of the best practice amps for harp that one could hope to get. It's THIS reverence I'm speaking of.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Rick Davis
1131 posts
Jan 07, 2013
11:05 AM
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BTW, just wanted to mention... At the MHBS jam at Ziggies last night Dex Lane brought in his tiny Fender Frontman 15 amp. I think he paid $25 for it used. It has a squawky quality but a fun tone, and though it was not the loudest harp amp at the jam you could hear him. He is a good player and he made the amp sound good. So, ya just never know...
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by on Jan 07, 2013 11:08 AM
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6SN7
247 posts
Jan 07, 2013
2:50 PM
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Dear Mr Hawkeye.
I loved the Silvertone I had for a while, fun to practice with but it could only be pushed only so far. That's kind of the realm a Kalamazoo lives in. I mean seriously, it is what it is. A Kalamazoo is probably in my future as I need a 5 watt practice amp.
The Masco has a visually quality that is sublime industrial that radiates mojo. When I went to Levon Helm's studio to see him play, there were a bunch of Masco heads all over the place. And one that has been tweaked right (my is a Skip Simmons tweaked, Megatone works on them too) is just too cool.
As far as revering anything, I bet Gary and Greg "revere" a Skip Simmons Masco's more than any amp!
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Mojokane
649 posts
Jan 07, 2013
9:09 PM
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Good investment Greg. How about a sample?
next paycheck, I'm gonna do it. ONE LAST TIME!!!
Then, I'll send you some 920's for grills.
I really MUST have Skip do this amp for me.
This one is out of the ordinary. I have had three people tell me it is abnormally louder than most....tons of gain and tone...
It is too difficult to dial in at gigs. but when I do get it right. It is KING. Just the right amount of "balls".
I was wondering if you eventually did send it out.
I know the urge to do it yourself, is hard. But Skip is the man for mAsco's, eh?
Thanks for sharing...
Why is it that we all just can't get along?<
Last Edited by on Jan 07, 2013 9:17 PM
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6SN7
249 posts
Jan 08, 2013
5:27 AM
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@JD - I made a mistake, I have a Masco MA 17, not a 17N. As you mentioned, they are two completely different animals.
As for the difference between the MA 17 and ME18, well, looks is the prominent one. Personally, I favor the 17 look, but that's me.
As for tonal difference, they are both very close. The ME8 is suppose to be awesome, but it is a smaller amp (8 watts I believe.)
Mojokane, are those photos yours? Send that puppy off to Skip and you will be amazed. It is truly the ultimate holy grail for blues harpist chasing the that gritty Chicago sound.
As to getting along, "De gustibus non disputandum..." That should be the motto at this forum. Cheers!
Last Edited by on Jan 08, 2013 5:30 AM
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6SN7
250 posts
Jan 08, 2013
6:26 AM
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@JD. I have a grey MA17, I have seen the blue versions, they are sweet looking.
I have played both the ME18 and MA17, I didn't hear a lot of difference but it wasn't a true apples to apples comparison (use the same speaker cabinet.) In conversion with Skip, I didn't get the impression that there was a huge difference. The fact was he happen to have a number of 17's laying around the house when I called to buy a Masco.
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HawkeyeKane
1354 posts
Jan 08, 2013
6:43 AM
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JD & Rick,
Because I know both of you have probably played through them at one time or another...
How would you rate Mascos in contrast with some of the other PA heads that are good for harp? Like DuKanes, Bogens (particularly the Challenger), Knights, and Stromberg-Carlsons? I mean, is a Masco really enough to blow any other PA amp out of the water? Because the Bogen Challenger that I've played through had to be the sweetest thing without speakers that I've ever laid ears on.
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Hawkeye Kane
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HawkeyeKane
1355 posts
Jan 08, 2013
7:03 AM
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Until I scored my Alamo, I was really hinkering to get one of these DuKane 1U460A's from Technobird. I'd still love one to be honest. I have Univox 15" bass cabinet that I think would be be an ideal pairing with one. He seems to have a method to rebuilding these babies for harp. I listened to a couple recordings he made of them, and they sound pretty bitchin'. He asked me to pass these on to anyone who might be interested. One is a rack mount. So...here ya go.
Vintage 35 Watt Dukane 1U460A PA Amplifier
Vintage 35 Watt Dukane 1U460A Rack Mount PA Amplifier
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Hawkeye Kane
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6SN7
251 posts
Jan 08, 2013
7:10 AM
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I have played thru Bogen, a particularly nice one was a small one. I have the sweetest looking Red Bogen Challenger, but honestly its better for guitar.
Mr Hawkeye, you need to play a Masco in order to understand what all the fuss is about. If you are looking for the real deal, the holy grail, look no further. As much as you didn't like it when I told you a Masco kicks the crap out of a Kalamazoo, I will go further and say the Masco is better than the other PA's you have mentioned. If you want another opinion, go ask Skip. His website is very informative and can answer better the questions you have posed.
And remember, "De gustibus non disputandum..."
cheers!
Last Edited by on Jan 08, 2013 7:14 AM
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HawkeyeKane
1357 posts
Jan 08, 2013
7:41 AM
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You guys have me bitten by the bug here...just when I thought my G.A.S. was in remission. Damn you all! ;-)
@JD
I would if my office didn't block photobucket images. :-/
@6SN7
"De gustibus non disputandum..."
Very true, as in all things. And therefore on this matter, I will rest with "Quando omni flunkus, moritati..."
(Okay, I know. That's pseudo-Latin, but I'm a diehard Red Green fan. I guess the true phrase would be: "Cum omnes aliud deficit, ludere mortuus...")
:-D
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Jan 08, 2013 7:43 AM
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TetonJohn
55 posts
Jan 08, 2013
8:04 AM
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I was going to start a new thread this morning, but it seems like this thread is evolving into it.
The question: Which Skip harpified PA head to get?
Some here think Masco is THE one. Okay, I'll accept that (especially for a FIRST one!), then where do I go from there?
Personally, because I have an old National 2 6V6 that is "in the ballpark" sound-wise (per Skip), maybe I should go 2 6L6 for a different volume niche?
Any other thoughts on how to narrow to "which one?"
(Yes, I have asked Skip, but thought I could hear from harp players, too.)
Last Edited by on Jan 08, 2013 8:15 AM
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jimr
39 posts
Jan 08, 2013
10:56 AM
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The Masco ME18 and MU17 share circuit features of: input pentode first gain stage with no additional gain stages before the phase inverter, treble bleed tone control, paraphase style phase inverter using a twin triode, cathode biased 6L6 x 2 power tubes. BTW- the Sonny Jr 1 has a triode first gain stage but has the other features of the ME18 and MU17.
I have(or had)other PA amps that share these features (Knight, Rauland Borg) and they sound similar to these Mascos. I built an amp from scratch with these features and it also sounds like these Mascos.
Other Mascos with larger numbers in the name (example MU25, ME36) have different preamp designs and to me are not nearly as sweet sounding. I expect these would sound like a ME18/MU17 if modified to have the the key features of these amps.
I would like to know the specifics of the Skip Simmons modifications and understand the reluctance to share them.
I suspect that Simmons can modify many other amps in addition to the ME18 and MU17 to be great harp amps.
Jim Rossen
Last Edited by on Jan 08, 2013 10:59 AM
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tmf714
1425 posts
Jan 08, 2013
11:16 AM
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Don't have time right now-but peruse these posts at your leisure-some great advice within I am sure-
http://www.bluesharmonica.com/forums/ask_amp_expert_skip_simmons?page=1
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