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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > The rising cost of harmonicas
The rising cost of harmonicas
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Todd Parrott
1067 posts
Dec 20, 2012
12:43 PM
I was in a local music store today and in casual conversation with one of the owners, she said that after the most recent price increase, customers are not buying as many harmonicas, to the point that the store is considering not carrying them anymore.

She said that people who come in looking for a harmonica for a birthday or Christmas present are surprised at how expensive a harmonica is (nearly $50 for a Golden Melody or Special 20) and are opting for something else. It was her opinion that they will eventually price themselves out of business.

I'm not sure if I totally agree with her, but I think she does have a valid point. Like it or not, many people just don't take the harmonica as seriously as other instruments.

Though music stores are not my main source for harps, I would sure hate to see harps start disappearing from the music stores. This is a big part of what keeps the harmonica's presence alive in a non-harmonica-playing world.
Afro Blue
82 posts
Dec 20, 2012
12:43 PM
I go to my local music store to support local business and the harps there are a little bit more than at Guitar Center and as a working college student, I often cannot afford to spend $50 on one harmonica when I can potentially spend $100 on three harmonicas. Also, their variety is low. I think it is hard on everyone who cares.
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HarpNinja
3018 posts
Dec 20, 2012
1:19 PM
Locally, the Mom and Pops have pricing well beyond what is found online. In my hometown, one store stocks Hohners in common keys, while the other has a wide range of Hohner and Suzuki harps...lots of cool stuff.

Knowing dealer costs from companies, I think people are generally more aware of online options and anyone in the know orders online.

For example, I drive within 100yds of a store that has Marine Bands, Special 20's, Manji's and Lee Oskars. I have never bought anything there as Rockin Ron's prices are $10-25 less.

I have noted that other instruments and gear, though, are priced within a few bucks of what I can find online. In otherwords, around here the markup seems weird.
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Custom Harmonicas
harp-er
274 posts
Dec 20, 2012
1:35 PM
Price is the primary reason I buy my harps online. There's always ebay, and then there are intermittent sales on the big retailer sites (Musician's Friend, etc.)
I can't see spending $50 at a local music store - even though in principle I'd love to be able to support local businesses that actually serve the local community - when I can buy the same new harp on ebay for +/-$30, or on sale at MF for maybe $25 (Bb and Eb GM on sale there today). I'm a hobbyist, not a professional - so whatever I say should be understood from that perspective - and I don't need the greatest customized harps available. If I want to explore ways to improve a harp, and I'm willing to spend a little to do that, I'd do what I've already done - try out the after market combs; and learn a bit about tweaking reeds. That's about as far as I imagine myself ever going down the endless money trail with harmonicas. I still like to think of playing harp as a low budget musical challenge and enjoyment. $100 harps? I don't think so. $200-300 harps? Get a life.

Last Edited by on Dec 20, 2012 2:55 PM
MJ
535 posts
Dec 20, 2012
1:34 PM
I buy most of my harps online for what is the best price I can find at the time. However I buy 2-3 good harps a year from a local dealer I know. I do this to give the Mom and Pop a chance, and to support local business.
HawkeyeKane
1308 posts
Dec 20, 2012
1:53 PM
Here in my city, we have 5 music stores. Four are Mom&Pop, the other is a regional chain. Out of those five, only three stock harmonicas. Out of those three, only two sell a decent selection of harps at reasonable prices. The last one has a WIDE selection of harps in stock, but....well....I paid $43 for a Marine Band there four years ago while the other stores were only charging $28. And I once asked that store about a LO because I wanted to try one. $52 was the response. I also went into their amp room not long ago to see what they had for me to try. I tested a VHT Special 6, normally about $240 online, right? Nope, here it had a tag of $325.

I buy from my local stores if I'm in a bind and need a harp for a gig sooner than I'd be able to get one online from Rockin Ron or MF, but that's about the only time I will. And truth be told, I don't really mind paying a few extra dollars to my local business community. They have to make ends meet. But the store here in town that charges 50 to 70% mark-ups (the largest and most successful of all the stores in town I might add), I haven't set foot in there with intent to buy anything in four years. It's just price-gouging in my eyes. Keep it reasonable, and I'll do business. That's how I roll.
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Hawkeye Kane
nacoran
6314 posts
Dec 20, 2012
2:29 PM
The local shops here only carry Hohner or Lee Oskar, and they are usually a little more expensive than online. Guitar Center says they'll match prices I can find online, but they really don't have a great selection either. Most places don't seem to carry the models you'd expect they'd sell. One local place had Blues Bands, Pocket Pals, Official Boy Scouts and a couple other of the $5 range ones. They had Meisterklasse, several chromatics, and maybe one Big River. They had most of their stock space filled with these. They have Sp20's and MB's and L.O.s, but not many in stock. They seem to be phasing out the L.O.'s.

Price is a funny thing. It's more complicated that value. I know there is inflation, but with most middle of the road harps hitting the $40+ range now it does mean I buy fewer harps. I've got decent harps now, finally, for all 12 major keys plus a LF, a LLF and Turboslide, but I've only got one natural minor and one harmonic minor, because I just can't afford it. Is the price set to value?

Volvo once went through a period where they slashed their prices. Sales dropped off, and market analysis said people thought less of the car. They raised the prices, and people came back. So, there is something about perception, but a trumpet certainly uses a lot more brass than a harp, and you aren't as likely to destroy one, and you don't need a different one for each key.

In the other thread, people were arguing that you need something in the $50 range for a starter harp. If you agree with that, then you are talking about $600 for a full set of instruments, and unless you learn to replace your own reeds you'll need to replace harps. You'll need a mic and an amp too, if you are going to go pro. Alternate tunings?

I suppose that's one way to experience the hardships of poverty to get the blues!

I'm waiting to see if someone figures out how to print a harmonica with one of those 3D printers. There is a home 3D printer for just over a grand, and one for 3k that will print in metal. 3D printers at factories print computer chips. Of course, computer chips can't achieve economies of scale harmonica makers can't. Harp manufacturers know you need a bunch of keys, and the discounts they give for combo packs aren't really very deep. I'm a harp fanatic. I'll keep buying as long as I can afford it, but I do wonder if maybe they are on the wrong side of the Laffer Curve. I own 1 TurboSlide, 1 Seydel Blues Favorite, and 1 Chrometta, and one special harp with some sentimental value. Those are the only times I've gone over $50 on a harp purchase (excluding some custom combs which I'll reuse from harp to harp).

Looking at the market for after market combs it seems people with money will spend money for bling. (I like bling. I had some money recently and I got some beautiful stuff from Blue Moon.) It would be nice if the work horse harps stayed more affordable though. I picked up my first harp for $20 in the mid 90's. A quick run through the inflation calculator suggests that should run me about $30 now. I won't even quite get that now on the same model if I find a sale, and companies seem to be jacking up the prices on replacement parts.

So, value is relative. A set of Sub30s? Way out of my price range. Remember, there aren't as many paying gigs (or so I hear) as there used to be.

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Nate
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Frank
1665 posts
Dec 20, 2012
2:35 PM
A person who buys their first harp from a local store will most likely purchase others from less expensive entities if they decide to make a habit out of playing the damn thing. I'm frugal and when it costs 30 bucks to fill up my Hyundai, every dollar I can save elsewhere adds up big time...
Miles Dewar
1420 posts
Dec 20, 2012
2:48 PM
$50 for a Special 20?!???!!?!!?!!?!!?!!?!!?!!?

!!!!!!!!!???!!??????!!?!!??!!??!!?!!???!!??!!??!!???


Yes, that WAS necessary. That's outrageous.

Last Edited by on Dec 20, 2012 2:49 PM
Aussiesucker
1220 posts
Dec 20, 2012
3:02 PM
I still think they are relatively cheap & I live in Oz where they do cost more than what you guys in the US pay. My comparison is that a harp at $50 is about the same cost as a slab of premium beer (which lasts no time).

However, a harmonica really cannot be compared with another instrument like a guitar of which only one is required. We need at least 12 harps to cover the keys & then there are alternate tunings & low keys etc. Harps wear out & spares are needed so the price adds up.

Playing the harmonica for me is a hobby.When I compare my hobby & costs with that of a close friend who is fanatical golfer I really have no costs to complain about. But I'm always up for a bargain!
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HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
Jehosaphat
384 posts
Dec 20, 2012
3:48 PM
@Aussie, you guys over the pond pay way too much for your beer.
Around 25$ a slab here in Kiwiland.
Makes my Aussie holidays expensive(wife is a beer drinker too)
Your harps are cheaper though ^
robbert
178 posts
Dec 20, 2012
3:51 PM
I have to admit that I have been rather consumed with the effort to assemble a set of premium diatonics, and a few really good chromatics.

I've been possessed with the notion that really great instruments will enable me to be unfettered in my attempts to play really well. And to the extent that you know you have skill, and you are still fighting the instrument to get the sound you want, you should seek a better quality, I think.

I guess my dream set of instruments would be a full set of harps from LLF to high G, or a good selection of these at least, all reworked by a top customizer.

In addition, I'd like a few flawlessly performing, durable, great sounding chromatics, probably customized.

Hell, up until a few years ago, I was happy with uncustomized Sp. 20s, BRs, LOs and a Hohner Professional 2016!

The search began with wanting to overbend, and after exploring all this, including working some on my own harps, I'm now totally spoiled. There is no way I want to play a lower quality harp, if I can get my hands on something better.

The cost of all this is relative to your budget. Can I spend household money on my instruments? No. Can I spend gig money on instruments? Yes. So then it becomes a question of decisions. Do I really need that LLF for $125.00, knowing that I really need five or six keys to gig with? Hmm, that's at least $625.00, for that capability...that's a lot of gigs for me!

If I had more disposable income, I would shamelessly buy a lot of harps. I'd probably become reckless even, to make up for all the years of having to be frugal.

But when money is limited, as it is with most of us, you buy the best instrument you can afford at the time, and with harps, it can be a good investment, if you are so inclined, to get a few tools and learn a little about making them more player friendly yourself...which is what leads a lot of guys to become customizers, I guess.

Recently, I've been thinking about not getting any more diatonics, just doctor the ones I have, and focus on really learning how to play the chromatic. One instrument for all occasions!

Yeah, right.

But actually, because I love chrome,I probably will spend more time with it in this new year, while I save up more $$$ for some harp expense or another.
Sarge
280 posts
Dec 20, 2012
3:54 PM
I wish I could emmigrate to New Zealand.
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Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
chicagopsych
8 posts
Dec 20, 2012
4:46 PM
Online may be cheaper than music stores, but the prices online have increased just as much relatively speaking. It's crazy to look back on posts from just a couple of years ago and see what people were paying for mid level harmonicas and then compare it to now. It's odd; they have gone up far faster than inflation (or maybe its just that the dollar is so weak now).
Harptime
44 posts
Dec 20, 2012
5:26 PM
The role of brick and mortar music dealers for retailing harps is now really for beginners and gifting ... serious players need the selection and pricing that the online folks can provide... if I was in that business today I would just carry lower priced harps that aren't dreadful...like the Big Rivers...you can sell them for a decent price and make a decent profit... I would also have a sign up encouraging special orders for quantities of the better harps... get a deposit and compete with online pricing... in this day and age the smaller retailers have to push service...maybe even suggesting an online dealer... be helpful to the better harp players and look for future sales in the other more profitable items...mic's, amps, cables etc...I remember when I did some retail harp sales back in the 80's...I made a lot more special order sales than in stock sales... a nice harp related counter catalog could produce some nice higher priced sales...again, if you get deposits and since you don't have to inventory you can offer competitive pricing and provide a nice service...and there are still folks that dont like the online thing....bottom line...to inventory pro level harps properly the investment is not cost effective...
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Warren Bee
Marketing & Harmonica Raconteur
Frank
1667 posts
Dec 20, 2012
5:29 PM
Buy'em up NOW if you can afford them - cause the sticker shock is only going to fester as the days and years tick by...
Aussiesucker
1221 posts
Dec 20, 2012
6:00 PM
@ FM Woodeye> I believe in shopping locally providing I can get what I need within the time frame. Harps generally are a problem from brick & mortar retailers & I use now an online store in Oz called Mandoharp. Online for harps is ideal when one considers the huge variety of brands, keys & tunings plus they are a small item easy and relatively cheap to post. Pretty much everything else I get from bricks & mortar retailers & I support locals. Fortunately, in our city of over a million we have very few gun shops because in Oz guns are considered by an overwhelming majority to be an unfortunate relic of the past & now only useful for hunting by rural folk.


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HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
Kaining
10 posts
Dec 20, 2012
6:18 PM
Customizer ?
Do they just retune the harps ? cause i know of at least 2 or 3 people that make hand-made harmonica and from what i heard from a lot of people, they probably are the best diatonic out there on the market.

And they price from 150 to 300e.

Might seems expensive but but how expensives are the best "name any instrument"
What could be bothering it the fact that the first rate harps cost that much. For 3 to 6 times the same price, you could have what's best. It seems like a way too short gap of price.
harp-er
276 posts
Dec 20, 2012
6:41 PM
"Fortunately, in our city of over a million we have very few gun shops because in Oz guns are considered by an overwhelming majority to be an unfortunate relic of the past & now only useful for hunting by rural folk."

Now that's the kind of awareness and sensibility we need here in the States. We scratch our heads and wonder how massacres like the one in Connecticut last week can happen. They happen, and will continue to happen, because Americans think guns are the way to solve problems. Oh, don't get me started. Sorry. This is a thread about harp prices.

Yes, well then. Harp prices and gun prices are going up. Have you noticed?
Jehosaphat
385 posts
Dec 20, 2012
7:58 PM
@Sarge
Man, it's a long way to come just for a cheap beer! ;-)
@Harp-er
Auckland has about 1.2m people about 3 or 4 gunshops.
You have to have an extremely valid reason for needing a gun to get a license.'Protection' won't do it.
Our Police don't routinely wear firearms,
(though of course they have them available if needed)

First time i went overseas years ago it freaked me out a bit to see Cops wearing guns.
paulbunyn
55 posts
Dec 20, 2012
8:01 PM
Yes, we cannot debate the US gun issue here. I must not reply, I must not reply, I must not reply...
daijoubu
19 posts
Dec 20, 2012
8:11 PM
For a brick and mortar store, Harmonicas are really an impulse item with a high markup. They should be near the checkout so while you're standing there with your $600 guitar you just grab a $40 harmonica because you've always been meaning to take it up. Those that have taken up the harmonica will always look for competitive pricing or added value.

That said, Long And McQuade, the big box music store here is competitive and reasonably stocked in the main store. I don't mind putting the money in a store that let's my 7 year old play the drums, guitar, violin or whatever strikes his fancy.
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Rob
Six Eight Time
Aussiesucker
1222 posts
Dec 20, 2012
9:15 PM
Quote "Now that's the kind of awareness and sensibility we need here in the States. We scratch our heads and wonder how massacres like the one in Connecticut last week can happen. They happen, and will continue to happen, because Americans think guns are the way to solve problems. Oh, don't get me started. Sorry. This is a thread about harp prices.'

Of course its a thread about harp prices. The benefit is we in Oz do not have to concern ourselves with the high cost both financially & in human terms of needing weapons hence we have other outlets on which to spend. Mind you not all spending is done wisely.




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HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE

Last Edited by on Dec 20, 2012 9:16 PM
nacoran
6316 posts
Dec 20, 2012
9:45 PM
Just like me to bring harmonica prices to a gun fight. That's not religion, but it's liable to be a heated topic, especially with so many of us Yanks on the forum. I'm staying out of this. I'll check back to make sure no one has thrown a grenade. Please, nobody throw a grenade.

If anyone wants me I'll be on Facebook again in the morning.

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Nate
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bluzharper
31 posts
Dec 20, 2012
10:47 PM
Glad I bought a ton of harps back when......
Just paid $68 for a harp, had to try one.

Last Edited by on Dec 21, 2012 4:20 AM
timeistight
992 posts
Dec 21, 2012
2:31 AM
Your gun homicide rate is at least ten times higher than other western nations. Are Americans ten times more evil than the rest of us?

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They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art.
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
1449 posts
Dec 21, 2012
2:32 AM
Moderators, for God's sake shut this bullshit discussion down.
I don't come here to be insulted and I am insulted. This topic is 5 million times hotter for me than religion or whatever else you're not allowed to talk about here. I am asking for a moderator to stop the gun talk, especially before I am no longer able to restrain myself and respond.

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David

____________________
At the time of his birth, it was widely accepted that no one man could play that much music so well or raise that much hell. He proved them all wrong.
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David
Elk River Harmonicas

Last Edited by on Dec 21, 2012 2:35 AM
timeistight
993 posts
Dec 21, 2012
2:40 AM
I'm not insulting anyone.

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They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art.
Charlie Parker

captainbliss
588 posts
Dec 21, 2012
3:54 AM
Problem with buying harmonicas in shops is that the point of going to a shop - to try something before you buy it - doesn't apply to harmonicas.

As for guns...



xxx
kudzurunner
3733 posts
Dec 21, 2012
4:10 AM
Nacoran, you did exactly the right thing in advising folks here to steer clear on the OT issue of guns. I'll also note that words like "evil" and "bullshit" are borderline fighting words, used the way they are here, and that, too, is a bad idea.

I'll strongly urge folks to keep posts on this thread in a place where they bear a plausible relationship to the issue of harmonica prices. There are plenty of other forums, I'm sure, where there merits and demerits of gun accessiblity in the US and elsewhere can be debated. Not here. Thanks.
SuperBee
736 posts
Dec 21, 2012
5:19 AM
Standard harp in a shop here is $55 last time I looked. That's for hohner MS, MB (incl SP20), LO. Which are the best harps you'll find stocked. Jambones, Johnsons, common. Hohner silver stars, Suzuki folk and blues masters are all there. I think they're overpriced at any price.
For me, maybe I'd buy a bluesmaster in a pinch. I think they're overpriced.
But yeah, I like MBD and Crossover. They're not stocked. I ordered one in, years ago before I believed in online. $75 for an MBD. It's been great though, I still use it a lot. Crossovers are more like $90. $92 I think is the official RRP in Australia. Manjis are right up there too.
I think it's too late for the LMS. If I blow a reed on a harp on Saturday arvo and I don't have a backup, I'll run to the shopkeeper and probably buy a SP20, but if I have time to plan, there's no way I'm paying $55 when I can get it from Ron for $37. And less because ill buy 4 to make the most of his multiple purchase discounts and minimise the postage per unit.
I bought some stuff from Rockin Ron. It seemed cheap to me, but some think its wrong to go shopping offshore. I'm not sure it is. If my local Mandoharp online guy is gonna charge me $82 for a harp Ron will sell me for $61, I'm not sure why I should support the guy just because he lives closer. My economist friend, who is a liberal party senator's son, suggested I should import from Ron and resell into the local market, to move local prices down. There's definitely scope for it. Even with shipping Ron is much cheaper on crossover and about $10 cheaper on what I think of as the standard range.
It has me thinking about the issue. I saw one guy talking about friendship, loyalty, supporting the community...but I thought "why are those things delineated along national boundaries?" I feel like its an international community. I have friendly and educational and casual business relationships in the USA, UK, Germany, France and maybe more places through the harp community. Should I restrict my shopping to Australia? I really don't know what to think about that. One of the things I love about the harmonica community online is that it is cross-border. I can talk to JimiLee online, email dave Barrett or Adam gussow, dave Barrett will ask jerry portnoy a question for me, or put me in touch with Aki Kumar, I can get Mark Prados to work on a few harps if I'm prepared to spend the dough, I can check out what's happening with Boris in Russia....and compare the price of beer in NZ, get into a shit fight about unrelated civil liberty topics with people in the home of the free...buy speakers from John from Jackson Hole, sell my broken Solist Pro to Sarge...mics from NY, Washington State, Maine, cables from Detroit...it's almost like travelling...
But I should only buy harps from a guy in Australia and pay through the nose to do so, because I should support the community.
I dunno, maybe that's right. If I need after sales service...do you reckon there'll be any?

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Last Edited by on Dec 21, 2012 5:33 AM
RyanMortos
1365 posts
Dec 21, 2012
6:21 AM
This may be a question for another thread but how often does a diatonic harmonica player replace their most used diatonic harmonica out of necessity on average? Am I just weird that I can play everyday on the same harmonica for over a year & all it might need is some gapping/tuning/cleaning? If I were replacing my most used harps on a quarterly basis I'd be more concerned but I can go a year without needing to replace a most used diatonic out of necessity. I spend 52x that on gas to get to & from work & jams in a year. Am I just weird not to be blowing out harmonicas & needing to replace them more frequently? Or am I just lucky not to suffer as badly from G.A.S.?

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RyanMortos

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walterharp
1008 posts
Dec 21, 2012
6:24 AM
Learning to play so you don't blow out harps so often will probably save you more money than shopping online

I think the local music store sells harps as mostly a novelty, and yeah, if they pop the prices up over $50, they will not get the impulse purchase. My guess is that most all harmonicas sold by local music stores (and probably internet) are for people who think they want to learn or a present for someone else they thought might like one. People who actually want a whole set of keys are probably a drop in the bucket
SuperBee
738 posts
Dec 21, 2012
6:39 AM
Learning to play so you don't blow out harps so often will not get you a set of minor tuned harps or a pack of crossovers or low tunings when you decide to see what the fuss is about.
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nacoran
6318 posts
Dec 21, 2012
6:42 AM
Ryan, I get pretty good life out of my harps. I've only actually blown out a couple. One was because I was at a practice without an amp when everyone else was plugged in and I tried to keep up. The other was a Piedmont that gave it's life testing the limits (surprisingly tough) in the interest of science.

Of course I've destroyed some reeds during repairs too.

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Nate
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SuperBee
739 posts
Dec 21, 2012
6:59 AM
'Sfunny. I play a lot on G, A and Bb harps. Never have wrecked a G or Bb and years since I wrecked an A by playing it. Did damage one working on it. Also play C and D harps a lot. Go through a few, not 1 a quarter or anything, but when a harp goes bad its usually one of those (i did wreck an Eb once, back when solist pros were famous for it) It's clear to me the main issue is reacting to volume on stage and involuntarily playing loud in order to hear oneself. But I think there may be something else goes on. I just have a feeling I've heard from repairers they see more D harps than other keys. I might be dreaming though.
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shanester
548 posts
Dec 21, 2012
7:01 AM
Have any of you guys ever asked your locally owned shops about their pricing?

In Austin and Houston I've bought harps from shops that were happy to give me a discount off their retail pricing.

Call me sentimental, but I try to support small business.
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Shane,

"The Possum Whisperer"




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HarpNinja
3022 posts
Dec 21, 2012
7:10 AM
I buy harps as I have money because I like to. In actuality, people spend too much time buying stuff they don't need.

For example, if I had to start from scratch, I'd put all my money into the keys of C, G, D, A, F as I probably use those keys 80% of the time (YMMV). I would use cheaper harps for other keys like Bb and Eb. I pretty much have zero need for B, F#, Ab, Db, or E...I just almost never use them. They would be the cheapest/crappiest harps I own.

I can play 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 11th, and 12th fluently enough to get through most music that is harp friendly, and therefore never feel the need for alternate tunings, etc.

My harps last forever. I had a F# from 2008 that I played live zero times. I decided to harvest reeds from it and keep a LF# in my gig box. I've used that harp to practice and perform a song live three times total. it is one of only two Special 20's in my gig case.

I play almost all handmade Hohners and a few Seydels. I never break harps and only rarely need to do a bit retuning. I've been playing 10 years and have only broken reeds due to playing 3-4 times.

I play relatively hard and loud for an overbend player. I just take good care of my stuff and buy quality products.

Special 20's are $37 from Ron...there are 14 keys of standard tuning (I would argue you could go a long way with half that), which would run over $500 for a set. Those harmonicas should be considered prograde for sure.

The same set of Big Rivers, which would serve the majority of blues players just fine is going to run just under $400.

That seems like a lot of coin to some, but we're talking a full set of giggable harps. Your guitar player, drummer, and bass player have all put way more money into their instruments than that.

If I was a blues player and not way into overbends, I'd go ahead and get a mixed set of SP20's and Big Rivers if I was trying to be economical. Hell, as it stands, it would only make sense for me to be buying SP20's for my personal harps.

At the end of the day, I just can't believe that blues harp players need 12-14 different keys of harmonicas. First of all, most are playing at home or jamming with others. Secondly, most music they'd be playing is diatonic and only in a few keys. Thirdly, they are willing to drop several hundreds into mics and amps that are overkill.

I've posted on the topic before, but I really want to get to the point where I can do whole gigs with 5-7 harps even if some oddball keys come up. I was in a band that went out of its way to even write originals in weird keys, and even then only used 7 or so different harps in a three hour gig.
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Custom Harmonicas
HarpNinja
3023 posts
Dec 21, 2012
7:14 AM
http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/1774718.htm

http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/2339304.htm

Here are two threads talking about what harps one would really *need* if they played Richter harps in a few different positions.

In my world a C, A, F#, Eb, G, D, and Bb would let me play about any key of diatonic major or minor with no issues. If I didn't use F# or Eb, I would still be ok based on my real world experience.

Oddly enough, the full-blown customs I play are C, A, G, D, and Bb. My other harps are not full set-ups.
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Custom Harmonicas

Last Edited by on Dec 21, 2012 7:18 AM
SuperBee
740 posts
Dec 21, 2012
7:45 AM
What are you trying to say Mike?
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HarpNinja
3024 posts
Dec 21, 2012
7:56 AM
1. Buy online - it is cheaper

2. Buy what you need - almost no one needs 14+ different harps to be covered for gigs.

Harp prices have gone up, but so has the quality. I realize not everyone has a lot of income to put towards harmonica, but the argument that they are overly expensive, break too soon, and are costly relative to other instruments is not true.


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Custom Harmonicas
HarpNinja
3025 posts
Dec 21, 2012
7:58 AM
Oh, and regarding harmonicas pricing themselves out of business, I bet the big three are very stable right now.

They have diverse offerings regarding harmonicas and beyond...and Hohner, at least, report huge profits this year. I bet more harmonicas are being sold now than 20 years ago.

The thing that people continually forget is that we are playing new harps that are DIFFERENT than 5, 10, 20 years ago. There are more models built to better specs that last longer and play better.
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Custom Harmonicas

Last Edited by on Dec 21, 2012 7:59 AM
Kingley
2050 posts
Dec 21, 2012
9:23 AM
"Buy what you need - almost no one needs 14+ different harps to be covered for gigs."

I've been following this thread and I completely agree with Mike's comment.
Most people could easily get by with five harps in my experience.

I also agree with Mike that although the price has gone up, so has the quality. Especially in the case of the Marine Band Classic.
Harptime
46 posts
Dec 21, 2012
9:57 AM
I carry 18 keys with me on gigs for a few reasons...first off i don't ever want to have to sit out of a tune...second, I currently am only competent gig wise in 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th and 5th...third is that as a mostly duo player as of late I find that having the full spectrum of harps gives me more crayons in the box to add different colors to the music...
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Warren Bee
Marketing & Harmonica Raconteur
HarpNinja
3033 posts
Dec 21, 2012
10:46 AM
I played holiday music with piano over lunch today. The piano player used music books. I used harmonica tab in 1st position. I brought 24 harps to look cool, but needed three - C, D, G. We just picked the key by her music books.

One hour of site reading tab (had zero rehearsal) while playing first position with an awesome piano player...in front of 463 kids...scariest gig ever!
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Custom Harmonicas
HarpNinja
3034 posts
Dec 21, 2012
10:46 AM
Warren, with your know-how, you could get by with 5-7 harps should you choose to do so.


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Custom Harmonicas
groyster1
2099 posts
Dec 21, 2012
11:03 AM
supply&demand....determines what the traffic will bear....I am so glad I have enough harps to last me the rest of my life...could not resist the recent bargain on crossovers for 37.99...
dougharps
310 posts
Dec 21, 2012
11:43 AM
I agree with Warren about having more choices available. I play in a variety of genres. If you sit in with a variety of groups, and you sometimes do studio work, you will need a full set of 12 keys plus extras. Sometimes guitar players tune down for easier bending or for the vocalist's range, and you have to be able to play in those keys. I also like having high G, low F, low F#, so I have a choice of range on the end high/low standard keys.

If I am on a paying gig, I bring backups in case of reed jams, reed flattening, etc. The show must go on. Then there are alternately tuned harps & chromatics that might be needed for some songs, depending on the gig. This could be expensive.

I didn't just go out and buy all the harps at once. I gradually built up the set over 20 years with gig money. At one point I slowly transitioned back to Special 20s from Lee Oskars, picking up a few Delta Frosts along the way. I still have a lot of functioning harps (mainly L.O.s) stuck in a drawer that I can use for backups if needed.

Now I just buy the occasional new harp to try new harps out. I probably have more than enough harps to last the rest of my life, but I am sure I will still try new ones, or invest in modified harps that overblow easier, though I am improving at doing my own overblow setup, and improving my playing technique.

If I were just beginning to play harp, I could get by most of the time with 5 to 8 harps, and gradually add from there when needed.

I strongly believe that learning to manage your breath and not wreck harps by playing too hard is the most important thing to set as a goal when you are learning. It will improve your playing and save you a lot of money. Harps today are no longer a disposable commodity.

I have always been a relatively loud player, and I struggled with playing too hard for a while, with the expected wrecked harps. This was especially true in the '80's and 90s. I killed D harps in particular.

I think that learning to overblow makes you learn to play more gently, and learn control. Learning harp set up and some repair is important, too, to save money.

For beginners, who may abuse and wreck harps regularly, the rising cost of harmonicas is a serious obstacle. For more experienced players, it isn't that big a factor.

I do think that harps are being built better now than in the '80s & '90s.
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Doug S.
Stevelegh
659 posts
Dec 21, 2012
11:48 AM
@HarpNinja:

To be honest, I only use one harp. A Joe Spiers C. It's probably my most stupid habit since I quit cigarettes a month ago. Nothing feels or sounds as good. Harp players only need one harp, but our tendency is to covet and eventually own a full set of harps that play like a dream whilst trying out all the options that the different manufacturers have to offer. If you think about it, we're the worst gear whores in the music world.

To top that, we then take them apart and take tools to them. Can you imagine a pianist taking a file to the hammers of his piano to make it sound brighter? They'd probably seek professional advice, and I mean a psychiatrist rather than a piano technician.

I went through my fav harps in 12 keys the other day. My 1847 Silver + sounds dull and my Harpmaster in Ab chokes out on certain reeds due to my over enthusiastic gapping. It's fixable, but I only play my Spiers in C, so I never get around to it.

Perhaps if musos treated us as equals, then I may be inclined to make sure my gear is tip top, but until then, I'll just covet, tinker and play my Spiers.

From a jamming with records point of view. I agree, a few harps in the 'blues' keys will cut it, unless you're trying to break out of the blues thing and play jazz or other stuff.
SuperBee
741 posts
Dec 21, 2012
1:43 PM
I'm pretty sure local retailers understand the market and their stock reflects that.
In short, I'm pretty confident it'll be a while yet before I can't drop in and pay top $ for a Special 20 in an emergency, as long as its in C or A
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