Hi everybody, my first post here for this username, I was a member once and left the forum to sort of force myself to spend my free time practicing rather than sitting in front of the computer and it kinda worked in a way.. Now I'm getting out of my little world and started jamming with quite a few experienced blues players (guitarists/singers) in town and it's a whole new world out there, I guess most of you know what it feels like to be a new fish in the pond. Basically it has been a good experience so far but since none of them have a clear idea about amplified harp I consistantly got dragged out of my comfort zone, it could be songs/styles that I'm not used to or never care to listen/learn and don't go well with harp sound in it anyway or comment about tone/volume that sometimes not possible to do or having to play when there's literally no space for harp in the song/band etc..
From this experience I'm trying to come up with some productive questions so it might be useful for people who are about to do what I do. I thought it might be a series of questions about being out of comfort zone as a harp player in a band/jam situation so here goes #1
In a situation when the leader call a song that you're not used to or think that for whatever reason the harp sound might not goes well with the song, what would you do and how far out of the way that you would go and practice to play or at least survive in a song/style that you generally wouldn't care to listen or practice?
Just get up there and do it. If someone is willing to let you do it - go for it. If you feel it, you can play to it.
Look for a pocket - whether it is rhythmic, melodic, working off the singer, doubling the bass line - or playing simply what you know fits with that song.
Don't be afraid to shake off the solo if it comes to you - if you aren't feeling it and barely hanging on to the song - there's no point in screwing the pooch further...
If you love music, just get in there and let it out...
Expect to screw up. It is very healthy.
I get to play with a WIDE varieties of music on a regular basis. It is a blast! I have guys who try to throw me in with something I have never played with before. I never back down, and yes, I have shaken off a few solos. However, I did usually find a good pocket.
---------- Danny
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2012 11:59 PM
There is a TON of music (rock, blues,gospel,country,some jazz,pop,soul,latin, etc...) that lays out nicely on the harmonica with how the note choices "bends included" and chords are presented on the instrument. Billions of amazing songs of ALL genres have been written that are structurally made up of musical simplicity,and many can sound complicated even in their simplistic nature. The harmonica can do many things well in many different musical styles because the tune at hand seems to be built into the harmonicas DNA... Some songs are going to be much more foreign to the harmonica simplistic musical layout and will require a much more musically aware player to have the talent and ability for adding uniqueness to that type of tune.
Simply back off and find your spot as KingoBad stated. It gets annoying after a while. I try to stick with blues oriented groups since that is what I like to reside best, perhaps a good amount of jazz on the side and I can find my way around country. But sometimes Rock fills the music up so much that you feel left out of the mix. If this happens to you, simply find that one note or lick to repeat until you get an idea of the changes. I got thrown into a Hotel California mix and realized that I had to switch to third position to really get that feel in there. I find that experimenting with position is also helpful. As Frank said, the harmonica is versatile. Switch positions, switch octaves, do repeats, bass lines. I think it is helpful to sort of hit the obvious stuff hard. It's like a last resort method that if you know the band is hitting the big octave hard, then there is where you start.
THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR EXPERIENCE! ---------- Hunger is the best spice.
I've always had a dream of standing alone on the Carnegie Hall Stage, with a full 100 piece orchestra behind me and having audience members call out loud to me any song they wanted to hear. As they did, I would turn to the orchestra, snap my fingers to the beat and rip into whatever the song was at hand – do this for 2 hours straight, play an encore of Beethoven’s fifth backwards and leave the audience frozen to their sits by my mastery of all musical genres ever imagined. YES…I am a Master, I am Great, I am Peaceful, I Love wholly, I AM A MASTER!!!!
I'm not sure why you consider "I Will Survive" such a stretch; it's not like it changes keys, so as long as you picked the right harp, you should be able to fake it.
"Well yeah, except for the Dm, G, Cmaj7, Fmaj7, Esus4, and E chord, it's all Am."
All those chords, and all the other chords in the tune, are diatonic to A minor or A harmonic minor.
To put it more simply, all the notes in all the chords of the song (except the G# in the E chord) are available without bending on a C harp (and G# is an easy bend). Therefore, it isn't a big deal to put together a solo in 4th position on a C or in 3rd on a G that would work over the chords of the song.
Last Edited by on Dec 16, 2012 6:19 PM
Thanks everybody for your comments, maybe it's just a beginner's fustration after all ha ha : )
I guess the problem is I know exactly what I'd like to listen, learn and play. Quite similar to Afro Blue, I planned to stick around the blues for a while, my friends are all professionals and they've been very supportive so far but after they know that I could do the blues just fine the song choice just jump out of my comfort zone most of the time now.
In 2 sets the song that they play could range from blues standards to purple rain, from country stuffs like It's alright mama to spooky or from rock n roll to jazz. So as a harp player who have only been studying old school harmonica stuffs and play mostly TB sometimes I found this to be a head spinning experience and that's why I wanna know how far you'd go out of your way to learn different things to be able to play with different type/style of musicians.
Maybe there's no answer to it, maybe I just gotta keep doing it and things will get easier. I also came to the conclusion that if I really want to play what I like maybe I need to form my own band so that might be the way to go.
@timeistight, most of them don't have any idea about amplified harp sound so sometimes they say something like "your amp sound very bassy, it doesn't cut, try listen to James Cotton." so I'm like, yeah his amp sounds good.. not that they don't have good ears but I think they never really care about harp before, it's just a plain ignorant and I think lots of guitarists are like that.
Hi puri. Well, there is a certain amount of getting away with it that you can do on certain songs, however I would suggest that just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
The question I always ask myself in these situations is can I add something meaningful to the song?
There are a few things to think about. Is it's just an unfamiliar song? If it's a blues that you don't know do you know enough to improvise over it? Play fills, take a solo. If you are used to playing blues this could be a good approach and work fine.
Is the song outside of your comfort zone because you do don't know or can't identify the structure? Or does it use scales etc that you can't grasp?
Is it a song you feel you could play along with but there doesn't feel like there is room for any harmonica? Or the sound of the harmonica doesn't feel right.
Are you at a jam or rehearsing with a band. This is important as being pushed out of your comfort zone to the point where you feel like you don't know what you're doing in a live situation can be bad for everyone involved. Being pushed out of you comfort zone while practicing can be a great way of expanding your musical knowledge and ability.
I think Adam says somewhere (either in one of his books or in a video) something like, "don't let them take you somewhere you don't want to go". There's nothing wrong with sitting out if you feel you can't keep up. For me I'd rather not play than play something s**t.
If it's a song where I feel I could play but don't feel there is room for harmonica in the song, I won't play. I play with several bands and there is always a song or two that I't just doesn't feel like the harmonica is the right thing for it. I just sit out and get myself a drink.
However, if you're rehearsing with a band and a song comes up which you don't instantly click with, it can be a great way of forcing yourself to learn something new. When I'm in this situation I'll try a few things out, get a vague idea of what might work and take it away and work on it. - I'll often make a rough recording of it on my phone or whatever, work on it at home. Try out different approaches, different positions until I have something which works, you generally learn something new while doing this which you can take on with you.
IMHO, in general when playing with a band the harmonica is there as an accompanying instrument. It's not laying down the rhythm or defining the chord changes. Most songs can work with out it. It's your job, if you are going to play, to add value to the song. And remember it's about the song.
I went to see Kim Wilson last year, he started his set with three of four songs which had no harmonica on. I think I've heard Rick Estrin say that he doesn't play on all of his songs live, as the sound can get boring and a bit repetitive.
This of course is all just my opinion. Others may disagree. Hope it helps.
Personally, if it is a song that won't work for me on harmonica, I respectfully decline to play. I'll even leave the stage. However, I've learned how to be comfortable on stage "not playing", so it kinda depends on the situation.
I don't like being put in an uncomfortable musical position. After all, I have to enjoy what is happening in order to add to the fun.
Of course, I am not a beginner and have spent many years playing good and bad songs on stage, so at this juncture, my choice is to do a "no thank you".
(This goes for all southern rock tunes, most r and roll songs Chuck Berry style, etc - I can't compete with the high energy guitar onslaughts.) ---------- The Iceman
@Baker, KingoBad and The Iceman, that's exactly what I feel. Thanks for sharing your experience, it really helps and I'm now feel more confidence to go on with my approach.
Right now I'm doin exactly what you guys said you would do (although, every now and again the guitarist would turn to me as I'm putting the harp aside and say "nah, come on you can do it, just make some noise") the thing is I never feel like I wanna make some noise, I wanna make some music but I have to admit that lots of musicains look at the harp just like that - noise making tools : )
@Baker - "don't let them take you somewhere you don't want to go" I'll take that advice to the heart, thanks to Adam too.
@The Iceman - "This goes for all southern rock tunes, most r and roll songs Chuck Berry style, etc - I can't compete with the high energy guitar onslaughts" I've been jamming 4-5 nights a week for just 3 weeks but already lost count on how many times this very same situation happened!
Thanks guys, you've been very helpful, really glad I'm back to this forum.
I second timiestight-Garry did a bang up job.Puri think about bringing some percussion with you,great to play cowbells,shaker,or tamburine,you ain't left out.When in doubt sit out,but noodling and faking it can be a norm for some train wreck jams.
I love trying to fit in the southern rock jams,maybe make a guitar player a little edgy if he ain't up to snuff.Most other mus. are a little leary of harp players,so what, get your chops going,you got em use them.Come underneath with some low rythm licks,then go on top with some outline melody,fade in and out,the peekabo style,which the old black guys had double down slick.Of course buy all keys and learn positions.I don't get caught much with my pants down,pulled out a Eb for one number,F# another over and out.
among the many things i learned with that band in the video was how to feel comfortable not playing. when i joined the band, the songs were all tightly arranged, with little or no room for harp. over time, i worked harp parts into most songs, but it was always small bits carefully fit in, with little room for improv. it was frustrating at times, but what i learned there made me a much better player in other, less constrained situations as well. i've had many compliments at jams about knowing when not to play. other musicians really appreciate that, and harp players have a (not entirely undeserved) reputation for never shutting up.
I´d say "I will survive" is a great song to jam to (w/ a certain affinity to "Autumn leaves") and sits nicely in 3 pos. I see Iceman´s point w/ the Chuck Berry song: those with the "Johnny B Goode" structure are very tough to add something interesting to by way of harmonica (but not "You never can tell" which is just great in 1 pos).
...hmmm, Johnny B. Goode? That's like rocket fuel to me. I do really like out of comfort tunes but not without working them up first. I will survive would have thrown me on the stand but give it a while to work it up and it would be fun. Most tunes have keys and/or horns and they lend themselves to parts we can get. It takes different positions and harps (low especially). Some of this weekends songs that I really liked were Take Me To The River, Cat Scratch Fever, some Mofro and All Along the Watchtower (standard maybe but the Jimi leads are fun to attempt). The Ted Nugent was awesome -the leads are there in 3rd, but I admit I didn't even try ACDC's You Shook Me.
Last Edited by on Dec 20, 2012 6:00 AM
Last Edited by on Dec 16, 2012 7:27 PM