Andrew
1592 posts
Dec 13, 2012
10:16 AM
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Someone showed me this.
http://www.americanbluesscene.com/2012/12/blues-music-banned-mali-real-birthplace-of-the-blues/
I haven't read it yet, and I don't know if it's old news for some of you.
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Andrew.
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Honkin On Bobo
1079 posts
Dec 13, 2012
10:37 AM
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A couple of choice passages from the article:
"Radical Islamists have taken over the region by force, and introduced a strict social code regarding music: all forms of music are banned in Mali."
"The BBC reported that even cell phone ringtones are not safe: militarists have confiscated cell phones with musical ringers and replaced the ringers with spoken verses from the Quran."
Now that's a fun bunch.
Sounds like a hollywood futuristic sci-fi plot. Hey, I believe in tolerance as much as the next guy, but you come for my blues and we're gonna have a problem.
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2012 11:27 AM
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Leatherlips
169 posts
Dec 13, 2012
11:41 AM
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We're not supposed to get involved in religious banter here, but it seems to me that wherever there are islamic fundamentalists, there's unhappiness and lack of personal expression.
Qaran boogie anyone?
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Leatherlips
170 posts
Dec 13, 2012
11:42 AM
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We're not supposed to get involved in religious banter here, but it seems to me that wherever there are islamic fundamentalists, there's unhappiness and lack of personal expression.
Qaran boogie anyone?
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isaacullah
2210 posts
Dec 13, 2012
1:54 PM
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That's really too bad. I love Malian music, and I hope that this suppression doesn't spread.
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Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2012 1:56 PM
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SuperBee
704 posts
Dec 13, 2012
2:48 PM
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Who put the fun in fundamentalists?
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harp-er
266 posts
Dec 13, 2012
3:08 PM
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Crazy. My son is a serious drummer, has studied in Mali for nearly a year, and is planning a trip to Senegal in January. He says he thinks he can cross over into Mali to the town of Kayes, near the border, where he has friends. I'm encouraging him to forget about that. This article makes me more worried than I was already.
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bonedog569
745 posts
Dec 13, 2012
5:45 PM
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A tragedy - anywhere something like this happens. The music of Mali is especially wonderfull... If you don't yet know them, check out the likes of the Tinarawen, Ali Farka Toure, Boubacar Traore, and Oumou Sangare. This stuff is some of the best music from Africa thatI know of.
Religion is a potent force, often for good - other times not so much.
It's sad.
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KingoBad
1214 posts
Dec 13, 2012
5:52 PM
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I didn't have my glasses on. I thought it said "Blues music banned in mall..."
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Danny
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MarkHagen
2 posts
Dec 14, 2012
4:10 AM
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LMAO, same here :D
Total idiots in any case, so much good music in & from the region. Though in general: it's not all of Mali, there's been a low key rebellion of sorts in the northern (Sahara) part for years and the rebels now hold the entire northern part of the country since about March (beyond Mopti if you want to check googlemaps) proclaiming it an independent state (Azavaz).
@harp-er: I was in the Senegal/Mali border region during the coup-de-etat in March (wasn't me, I swear!) and it's definitely NOT the problem region, everyday life as usual with markets open etc. If your son already knows the country he should be fine...
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rbeetsme
966 posts
Dec 14, 2012
4:30 AM
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"Islam-a-bad", my next blues ballad.
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harp-er
269 posts
Dec 14, 2012
6:36 AM
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@MarkHagen: thanks for that. I hope it's still that way now, many months later. Of course I'd prefer he didn't go, but I'm only the father - no decision making power any more for a 30 year old.
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fred_gomez
12 posts
Dec 14, 2012
9:11 AM
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islamic christian music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2zsCoNnfg8
islamic jewish music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wNVknap844
islamic satanic music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m95VqgEdUog
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bonedog569
746 posts
Dec 14, 2012
9:44 AM
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We have Muslim blues harpers out there, - and on the board. I think we ought not focus on one religion or go much further in that direction.
There are extremists of every stripe who'd like to impose their views and lifestyles on all. Including in this country.
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LittleBubba
258 posts
Dec 14, 2012
9:39 AM
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Amen! :)
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fred_gomez
14 posts
Dec 14, 2012
9:50 AM
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my grandmother was a fundamentalist no musical instruments in church, no dancing no secular music at home. the alevis own haji bektashi called the neck of his unstrung saz in a bag on his back "a stick for beating dogs" during a purge of musicians in turkiye. but beating dogs with a stick meant music was the most powerful weapon and biting dogs were the fundamentalist authorities. you had this problem among rembetika musicians in greece. the homemade baglama was actually illegal and you had to make them so small to be carried under your coat. the greek police smashed them on site. just because the rembetik turks sang about hashish, sex and cocaine. and this was in the 1920s. the best way to fight this in mali and other places would be to arm a resistance with say "sticks" to beat dogs with. music eventually wins always.
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nacoran
6283 posts
Dec 14, 2012
10:45 AM
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Lots of old nursery rhymes had hidden political messages. Also, 'The Lion Sleeps Tonight' is about the tribal chieftains biding their time in Africa. Music and culture finds a way. I like Fred's idea.
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Nate
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Stevelegh
657 posts
Dec 15, 2012
12:23 AM
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@Leatherlips:
'We're not supposed to get involved in religious banter here, but it seems to me that wherever there are islamic fundamentalists, there's unhappiness and lack of personal expression.'
Sadly, Islamic Fundamentalism is all we're exposed to. The West has done a propaganda job of McCarthyesque proportions on Islam. We're led to believe that they all cut off people's hands and stone women. It's largely not true. I know many Muslims and they're good people. I also know many Christian fundamentalists and they're just as nuts as the Islamic ones.
Many Gulf nations have been run by US installed dictators. Now the Arab Spring has come along, the people are getting a choice, but in many cases it's between the same guys wearing different hats or a radical bunch, so the press we're fed is only going to get worse.
If you're interested in getting an idea of Islamic nations, take a look at aljazeera.com. I'm not saying I agree with all of it, but they're not all turban wearing savages either. The Islamic world has made huge contributions to science, art, architecture etc.
(by the way, I'm not a Muslim. I'm just a guy who doesn't like being lied to by my government).
Last Edited by on Dec 15, 2012 12:25 AM
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mojojojo
105 posts
Dec 15, 2012
3:31 AM
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Steve is right on point. Most extremists are funded and coopted by money interests, and used for political ends. The ground-level followers have no idea they are being used.
I've been Muslim over 20 years...All the literature points to religious teachings, not musical ditties. At best scholars put music as time killer or waster. No religion teaches singing and dancing your way to Heaven. Its in the cultures that you find the music.
Even Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens) was following that until he finally softened up and made a kids album. Its fine as you call it your own work and expression, and has nothing to do with religion.
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Jakarta River Blues Band
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kudzurunner
3714 posts
Dec 15, 2012
5:33 AM
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I'm sorry to hear about the banning, and the comments about Mali being a rich musical culture. I know that Corey Harris has spent time there and benefited from his connection with Malian musicians.
I'll second the note of caution regarding moving outward from this one specific story--which certainly deserves to be shared--into more general outrage directed against religious fundamentalists, including Muslim and Christian fundamentalists. Please take a look at the creed. When threads talk about religion here, they have in the past almost always ended badly. Step very lightly, everybody.
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Frank
1584 posts
Dec 15, 2012
6:06 AM
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They’ve obviously never heard any of Jimmy Reeds music before ?
That is a really cool site BTW…
http://www.americanbluesscene.com/interviews/
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Steamrollin Stan
644 posts
Dec 15, 2012
6:33 AM
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I'm hearing ya mojo.
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harp-er
271 posts
Dec 15, 2012
8:18 AM
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"No religion teaches singing and dancing your way to Heaven."
Not quite accurate, actually. In fact, every major religion does. There are forms of devotional practice in Christianity (think great big gospel choirs as an example), Judaism (Hassidic ecstatic song and dance), clearly in Hindu bhakti yoga (think the Hare Krishna's, for example), Tibetan Buddhism has its Lama Dances accompanied by raucous horns, drums and cymbals, and even Islam has this method in the venerable Sufi order of the (whirling) Dervishes (which, just BTW, I was fortunate enough to witness/experience this past summer in Istanbul) that explicitly use singing, music and dancing as "ways to heaven". If not exclusively sufficient, then certainly essential.
Just sayin'.
Last Edited by on Dec 15, 2012 12:15 PM
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fred_gomez
16 posts
Dec 15, 2012
11:54 AM
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blues was suppressed by the churches both black and white. the government wasnt too happy about it either. why didnt it just die? guitars could be got through sears and montgomery wards catalogs. but carrying a guitar marked you as a bluesman. it went covert small guitars made of items found in a shed or barn. kids witing for mom to go shopping so they could string a diddley bow on the side of the house. and of coarse the inexpensive harmonica, play church songs inside the house sneak off somewhere like a graveyard to play blues. bb king said the hardest thing to get was records they had to drive to other states, now you have media everywhere. they can make guitars there whats hard to get is string and harmonicas. so if some rebuilders would donate, the next step is a picture diagram in no exactlanguage on playing basics and how to get the things into the hands of the resistance.
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mojojojo
107 posts
Dec 16, 2012
12:13 AM
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harper...
I just meant the religious texts do not say it. The examples you mentioned are sects or offshoots. Use of music in religion is culturally driven. I'm drawing a line between people adding music, singing and dancing to religion, and what the original teachings say.
I've seen Sufi dervishes. There is Nasheed in Islam, which is something like vocal only bold marching tunes. But the more modern version has instruments and maybe a full band. Reciting the Quran is an art and has a number of reading styles, and it is supposed to be recited with a nice voice.
I'm saying there's no written teaching which says Want to get to heaven? Do more singing and dancing. But people find ways to work it in (ooh ya, Gregorian chanting).
There is a case in the history when Prophet Muhammad and the early Muslims were digging a trench and they did a field holler thing. One researcher found the Levee Camp Holler used by slaves sounds a lot like the Muslim Call to Prayer, which has an obvious call and response.
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I suck at harmonica!
Jakarta River Blues Band
JRB's facebook news and vidz
Last Edited by on Dec 16, 2012 12:30 AM
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harp-er
272 posts
Dec 16, 2012
6:31 AM
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mojo -
I would take issue with your line about no written teachings. That may be true in Islam - I'm not a scholar and so won't argue the point - but it is in fact not true elsewhere. There are explicit and specific teachings about the uses of music as spiritual practice. But whatever.
fred_gomez -
now now buster; no need to go getting dualistic about it all. One can "whine and debate" and also "help", now can't they? Or is it just a matter of "shut up and send a check" in your world?
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shbamac
225 posts
Dec 16, 2012
7:17 AM
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I wish god would come down here and ban religion...
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harp-er
273 posts
Dec 16, 2012
8:06 AM
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Amen!
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fred_gomez
19 posts
Dec 16, 2012
9:32 AM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-20624236
gotta be something you can do
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bonedog569
752 posts
Dec 16, 2012
12:00 PM
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psalm 100
Make a joyful noise to the LORD, all you lands. Serve the LORD with gladness: come before his presence with singing.
I believe the psalms of David are accepted as part of Islam (the Zabur) - as well as Christianity
Obviously - the 'Black Church' has celebrated this psalm - and been a major wellspring of the music we cherish and love.
Of course Blues , and other music, not of obvious devotional nature, has always been controversial, and often frowned upon, or worse, by religious communities and establishments.
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Frank
1613 posts
Dec 16, 2012
12:11 PM
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I’ve been to a Blues show at a sin filled blues bar on a Saturday night and went and seen the same band at a church the following Sunday afternoon Praising the Good Lord full force!
Last Edited by on Dec 16, 2012 12:11 PM
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nacoran
6288 posts
Dec 16, 2012
12:33 PM
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If you are a musician in Mali can you qualify for any of the refugee amnesty programs to get out of there, I wonder? Do we count being a musician as being a member of a persecuted group, or as cultural treasures, or as useful people for work visas to allow them to enter the country? :(
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Nate
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Jehosaphat
376 posts
Dec 16, 2012
12:38 PM
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I am a confirmed Atheist ...but some of the most beautiful music ever written is of a religious bent.
Gregorian chants to holly roller gospel i've got them all.
Friends find this a bit baffling..so do i sometimes.
Mind youi like a bit of Opera occassionally and i'm not italian ^
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nacoran
6292 posts
Dec 16, 2012
6:37 PM
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Johosaphat, I'm in the same situation. I've sung a lot of Sacred Harp, as well as being in choirs that took on Handel's Messiah. I went through a big Gregorian Chants phase too. I'm not so big on opera though. I've had a few friends who thought it was strange for me to be singing hymns. Being an Atheist will get you killed in several countries too. It's strange how people can get so worked up and hateful. It's by know means any one belief system's exclusive foible. Communists had a pretty bloody history against religious people and every religion has it's saints and it's sinners.
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Nate
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mojojojo
108 posts
Dec 17, 2012
10:06 PM
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Mali stands to lose a lot more than a few guitars. They might not be able to play the blues, but they sure got them.
The problem has been around for 20 years. One group of the loosely affiliated radicals who took over the north wants to attack the other two, but needs their help to get established. They get their funds from narco traffic, smuggling, kidnapping, and western sources.
Now China has been investing in Africa, which worries the US. They both want Mali's gold. But US doesn't openly do business with dictators. Nice choice, exploited by Communists or bombed by the West.
In such situations the criminal elements have no regular assurances with cops and officials, so they decide to go into business for themselves. A lot of these are the "Islamists", not to be confused with the regular Muslims.
Some of these guys in Mali are the same ones the US used to do a number on Libya. Neighboring Algeria is the staging area for the west to attack north Mali if and when it happens later.
So it kind of annoys me when people take an uniformed attitude that religion is causing problems in the world and think we'd be better off without it.
The role of religion in society has and always will be a major factor, and it is ignorant of history to say otherwise.
I really liked the line that to play the blues is to be a healer. Right now in Mali a lot of regular folk have to live the blues. Please be wary of MSM agitprop piece.
Hope not too far off topic. I read this after social function of harp thread and vid, got me thinking. This forum has turned me on to some Mali blues.
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I suck at harmonica!
Jakarta River Blues Band
JRB's facebook news and vidz
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