I'd say the closest you can get to the Avenger right now might be the Harpgear HG50 1210. It lacks the two 8" speaks of the Avenger, but its rated a little higher on the output. If you talk to Brian Purdy though, maybe he'd be willing to do a custom one for you and add a couple 8's to the mix. ----------
Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Dec 07, 2012 10:22 AM
tmf, why is he no longer selling amps? I know his health is bad, but the amps are assembled and shipped from a factory in North Carolina. All Gary had to do was collect the money and place the orders.
CarlA - Bruce at Mission Amps is planning to add a big amp to his line-up: 60 watts, a mixture of speakers. I'll be helping him with the development.
You can get a 50-watt 12+10 from Mission Amps right now, and he will do custom configurations. It has the same nice crunchy character you hear in my Mission Chicago 32-10 amp, but bigger. I think it is the best-sounding harp amp out there right now.
Harpgear makes very nice amps, but to my ear they sound a little cleaner.
Wezo makes fantastic amps. His ME-18 amps are outstanding.
I would agree with Rick on the 32-20. Bruce built mine with 50 watt PT and a 35 watt OT. It gives me the option to upgrade easily if I feel the need in the future. Bruce is also open to custom speaker configurations. He put 3x10 in the amp he built for me. I am totally happy with mine. It allows me to play clean or dirt. And the price was also good.
"All Gary had to do was collect the money and place the orders."
Rick - I don't really think it is fair to presume Gary was merely an order taker. He used to take a stand online that he only provided support to the first owner of his amps, my experience demonstrated that wasn't true.
He answered questions and openly shared information with me. He gave me some very detailed instructions to get the best tone out of my Super Sonny. He knew that I bought the from Greg, but he was super cool and helpful. He had no vested interest in helping me. Helping me put nothing in his pocket.
Several years earlier, I had purchased a speaker from him around the time that he was working on the Cruncher. I had the opportunity to play through Greg's amp and told him that I had like it. He asked me a bunch of questions about my experience with the amp and seemed to be interested in my opinion.
He seemed to be pretty interested in amplification and was focused on constantly learning and improving his products.
That doesn't sound like a guy who is content in collecting checks and placing orders to me.
From my understanding, he was pretty sick and was focused on recovering. It didn't sound like he had a lot of free time. I can't imagine that he was getting rich off his business.
My experience with Gary was different then your expericence. I bought a 2nd hand Super cruncher and sent mail to Gary a few times with a simple question and received no response. :( For the record, I dont know Gary and am impartial to any politics.
For why he is not taking orders for amps is his own business. MAybe he will sell the rights and make a few dollars.
Matter of Fact. Greg Huemann helped me more. Thanks Greg!
That's a shame. I hope his health improves and he can resume a normal life.
Ditto what Joe L. said. My buddy owned a SJ1 and Sonny would send him upgrade kits and instructions. This was years after that amp was produced. He also called him up and just gabbed about amps and harp.
There are a couple of Sonny amps on EBay now. Check them out http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313&_nkw=sonny+Jr+amp&_sacat=0&_from=R40
Or this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sonny-Jr-2-100-Watt-All-Tube-Handwired-Amplifier-/321030234258?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abee4a092
Last Edited by on Dec 07, 2012 11:59 AM
Wouldn't a harp modded Bassman be the route to go then? I believe Sonny's amps were based off the Bassman. The HG amps are not based off the Bassman. I think it is heavily influenced by Fenders, but more like a Concert than tweed.
I have, possibly, the last Avenger to have been built. After dealing with Gary, it is obvious that he wants his amps to be PERFECT. If his health is not up to dealing with customer issues to the highest level, he's just not going to do it.
As for a Harp Gear 12 10, unless he's sold it, Hal Iwan had one for sale at a great price a few months ago. He had sent the amp off to Skip Simmons (I think) and had it tweaked. It had outstanding tone and volume. I don't know Hal's handle on MBH, but I think he gets on here regularly.
Joe, what I wrote about Gary Onofrio's business model is true. I spoke to him about it several times. Yes, he also provided phone support. My point -- pretty obviously -- is that Gary did not build or assemble or ship the amps. He has no employees. It seems like a business he could maintain even if he was sick.
And Gary has been sick for years. I've seen Internet postings from as early as 2001 where Gary was talking about his Hep 3 and how debilitating it was. He talked it constantly on Harp-L, year after year. He must have taken a bad turn for him not to be able to keep the business going. Or perhaps there is a different reason.
I am happy you had a good experience dealing with Gary Onofio. Some did, others did not. My blog attracted an awful lot of mail from Sonny Jr customers who were furious about it. You can say the same thing about most businesses.
I think HarpNinja Mike is right: Early Fender Bassman RI amps have aged to the point where their cost is ridiculously low, as in $500 or less. They respond very well to tweaks and make great harp amps.
Perhaps an enterprising harp amp junkie could start a business providing revamped Bassman RI amps. I know I've thought about it.
Hal got that HG50 from me...I got it from a forum member who got it from Brian Purdy. It was the demo 1210 that Jason Ricci took on tour and recorded sound clips with.
That amp was awesome (did not sound like a Bassman, though), but I was never using it. The proverbial writing was on the wall that I wouldn't be gigging enough in large venues to warrant keeping it. ---------- Custom Harmonicas
I wont share here why-I told Gary our coversation would remain private-I can tell you it is really not about his health-sometimes there are other things in life that are equally important.
Not saying his health is not important,but there are other obstacles in life that can become very challenging.
Garys amps were based on the venerable Fender Bassman-to a degree. Gary was the first pro harp player to market a harp specific amp in the Sonny 1. That amp is still one of the most versatile amps out there.
He also marketed a Bandmaster type amp for a little while-when he realized the 4-10 was the way to go.
The harp amp community will forever be indebited to Gary-he really showed others the way to go as far harp specific amps should act and respond to the players demands. His pro endosers prove that-John Nemeth recorded his new disc "Blues" live with only the Super Cruncher-listen for yourself. If thats not killer ripping crunch and tone,I don't know what is.
In ending,I would like to wish anybody undertaking the monumental task of building,marketing and providing customer support the way Gary did,good luck.
It's true that Gary did base most of his amps off of the Bassman. But one point of note that I think is worth mentioning, is that his first two amp models really weren't. As far as I can tell, the SJ1A and SJ2A seem more inspired by and reminiscent of the Danelectro Commando than the Bassman. Am I wrong? ----------
If one takes into account Gary's obsessive drive for perfection and customer service, not to mention the administrative details of running a business, one would quickly realize that it is much greater matter than just placing the orders and collecting the money. And BTW, Gray's profit margins were remarkably small.
Ceasing production is Gary's personal choice and should be respected. It is not for anyone to second guess what the man does with his life. ---------- LSC
"What would be the closest equivalent amp currently available like the avenger??"
Nothing-there is no "equivalant"-nothing matches the speaker configuration,power and tone of the Avenger-nothing.
Last Edited by on Dec 07, 2012 2:17 PM
These are both established businesses. I believe tmf714 made the comment in the context of a start up. Not exactly difficult to "step into the void" when one of your major competitors leaves the scene
"It's not a black art; it's a business."
There in is a major difference in approach. I would submit that what Gary produced, in particular the Super Cruncher and Avenger, are in fact functional art. I also believe his attitude to their development and marketing was more in line with an artist than a businessman.
As far as customer experience, I was seriously considering buying a Mission before I bought a Sonny Jr. The marketing was attractive in terms of price and the physical size of the amp. However when I asked a reasonable question of Bruce his reply was condescending and borderline rude. I instantly decided to continue my search and for that I must thank the man. If he hadn't acted like an ass I wouldn't have discovered Gary Onofrio or discovered what in my opinion is the best harp amp ever made in the Avenger. I also, due to his actions, made what I consider a good friend even though I never actually met the guy, and I'm not a people person.
I would also submit that the "furious" response to Rick's blog is perhaps a better indicator of the respect and loyalty that the overwhelmingly vast majority of Sonny Jr customers hold for the man and his products than what some others with their own axe to grind may have to say. Personally I literally have never in my life had a "business" go so far above and beyond the call of duty or be so unbelievably giving in their actions as Gary Onofrio. I mean damn, just one example of many. My Avenger arrived totally unexpected on my doorstep before I'd even paid for it.
I would also suggest looking at the list of legendary players who use Sonny Jr amps, none of which received any compensation of any sort, and compare to the list of any other builder of harp amps. Then factor that in to whether or not you wish to hunt down an Avenger or go with something else.
....or ask Kim Wilson and other top players who don't endorse SJ amps. Please, the cult of SJ sometimes is ridiculous. Sure, some players like his amps, that is great. I dig it. Others don't. That is great too.
Amp tone is totally subjective. Saying there is no equal is just silly. There are lots of good amps out there. We are living in the golden age of harp amps; an embarrassment of riches for us. Maybe SJ inspired some of that creativity, and you can give him credit for that if you want. Gary certainly does deserve credit.
Gary was and still is the only pro harp player to produce and market the best harp specific amps out there.
Bruce is a drummer-lets leave it at that.
Mike is a harmonica player,but not what I would consider a pro-he does not do it for a living,does not tour,and has few pro endorsers-David Barrett as far as I know.
There is more to it than advertising,sales and marketing. There is a genuine passion for this type of music,and then building an amp to bring it to the masses. Gary did that-and he leaves some huge shoes to fill.
Like I said ,good luck with that.
Last Edited by on Dec 07, 2012 2:59 PM
LSC, you are wrong about SJ endorsers not getting benefits, such as a deep discount on their purchase. Gary told me that is his business practice. It is a legitimate way to do business and promote one's product. It is perfectly fine.
@HarpNinja 'Hal got that HG50 from me...I got it from a forum member who got it from Brian Purdy. It was the demo 1210 that Jason Ricci took on tour and recorded sound clips with.'
How strange - this demo 1210 was apparently the one I bought from Brian too! Long since sold it to another guy in the UK though.
LSC. Good post. We all have different experiences with people in life. My experience with Bruce was the exact opposite of yours. I gave him a call after exchanging a few emails. We talked for around 30 minutes or so about what I was looking for in an amp. he was also interested in some of my theories as to types of speakers I preferred and what he used. Bruce strikes me as a very nice guy and he surely builds a top shelf harp amp. As a result I purchased my amp from someone that I felt had my best interest in mind. Just the opposite from your experience, I contacted Mission Amps because although I was planning on getting a Sonny Jr. , it was not possible because of circumstances with Garys no longer taking orders. I do know that after exchanging an email or two with Gary, that he was not willing to use the type of speaker that I preferred. Not a big thing, as I would have planned to swap out speakers after buying the amp for what I wanted. After getting my Mission 32-20 Bruce has always answered any questions I have had, and has told me he values and appreciated any feedback I might have. To get back to the initial question of this thread, Yes if you are patient, a Sonny Jr. Avenger can be had. I have seen a number of them on EBay in the past 6 months. They are also top shelf amps, no doubt.
tmf- you keep saying Gary Onofio was a "pro harp player." I've never seen any evidence of that. I'm not saying it is not true, but I can't find his albums or any references to his professional playing career. Do you have any info on that? I'd be interested to see it.
"Bruce is a drummer-lets leave it at that." Calling someone else "ugly" does not make you "beautiful". Why must we get no nasty and personal in the month of good will.
Hello fellow harpers. This is Sonny Jr, and as > most of you know, I do not get > involved on HarpL, mainly because I have 3 jobs, > a relationship, and put > aside minimum one hour per day for harp practice, > and wish it were more. After > seeing many of the comments about my amp, which > is a very personal project, I ask > just to be able to explain why, and how this amp > came about. My first two > projects, the SJ1, and SJ2, I did everything > possible to get away from the > bassman, going more for the recording sound of > Walter, using 8â?? speakers which have > that nasty sound, and using a Class A circuit for > more overdrive. As I told > the class in San Jose of 50 harp players, I am > not a circuit expert, guru, > wizard, magician, or any of the terms used for > some techs. I am just a crazy harp > player who has bought over 3000 amps to try and > find various traits that make > up THE sound most aspire for. Interesting comment > by Ray Beltran. Because when > I was starting one of my bands in the 80â??s, I > remember distinctly hearing that > the original bassman was the holy grail of harp, > blah blah, Walter did this, > blah, you know. So I got to my first gig with my > new $3000 amp, set it up, and > could not play past 1 â?? 2 on the volume, fed > back all night, and called it > the hold Snail from then on. I have owned at > least 30 more originals over the > years thinking maybe if I got a really original > one it would help. True, they > are voiced originally for bass, but then again, > what amp in the 50â??s was a harp > amp? I was never really happy with any of the 10 > inch speakers on the market > when I started the SJ amps, this is going back > nearly 10 years, when all there > was in speakers was Fane, Eminence, Celestion, so > you see why nothing looked > appealing. After the end of the SJ 2 line, I had > gained a lot of knowledge in > tube substitutions, why tubes do what they do in > certain positions, > transformers, speakers, the little ins and outs > of modding for harp. I kept getting > requests for amps, so I started messing with > reissue bassmans, setting them up for > harp, trying different speakers on the market > today, Webers, newer Eminence, > and got a pretty good sound out of them, but did > not have control over the > circuit or transformers. THEN, after having a few > custom amps built by a fellow in > California named Bill Odell, I was turned onto > these NOS Astron paper oil > capacitors by him. So we can have lengthy > discussions about caps, poly versus > paper oil, but you know what, I know what I hear, > Bird Stafford and many other > original bassman guys that sent me their amps > that other companies that use > orange drops killed, and these do make a world of > difference. So I bought up every > one I could get my hands on, from two different > old time radio supply houses, > and said, if I am going to do this, I want total > control of what goes in it. > After trying every speaker combination I could > get my hands on, I could hear a > difference even in the 20 watt versus the 30 watt > Weber P10Q, and even in the > ribbed versus smooth cone. I use the combo of > those with the Eminences > because that is what continues to sound the best, > I have tried 4 of the same of > every speaker, it always comes back to these. > There is so much that goes into an > amp to make it harp ready: That is why if you > have a kit installed in your > reissue, it still basically sounds like a > reissue, RIGHT. Why is that, THE PARTS. > Same poly caps that I change out from others, as > talked about before. The > purity that comes from a paper oil cap cannot be > duplicated. Then there are the > transformers. What makes a bassman output, the > original 45249 sound like it > does? Triad specs call for what is called a > reverse wound product. Harp-l June 2004.
Last Edited by on Dec 07, 2012 3:18 PM
Bruce Collins of Mission Amps is a damn good drummer. His band Mojoville is excellent. The harp player/front man is Ken "Mojo Red" Mergantime, outstanding player, and he has used Mission amps for years.
Last night they played the Boulder Outlook, named by the Blues Foundation as the top blues club in America this year. They rocked the joint.
The tirade is coming from a different direction ,I fear. The inference of the last part of your statement "Lets leave it at that" was in my opinion an indirect slam at Bruce. I have a hard time understanding why all of the amp builders mentioned in this thread cannot be admired and given due credit for their talents.
Gary spent years working on amps, according to him, thousands of them. When he decided to start building his own, a lot of r+d and personal knowledge went into them. I have watched as he continued year after year, improving, experimenting, swapping tubes, speakers and components until he found the right mix. I think Gary is the most obsessive person I've ever met, totally committed to his passion, designing and building amps. When I ordered my Sonny Jr. Gary was in the hospital. I was told he wouldn't ship it until he personally could go over it and check everything out. Delivery date was 6 weeks. He left the hospital 2 days later and insisted on calling me and setting up the amp so he could ship it out to me. I'm guessing he no longer has the strength to back his product like he wants. I salute him, a rare breed. I wish him well, hope he can shake this thing.
Last Edited by on Dec 07, 2012 4:01 PM
I've known Gary for many years now. He is honest, offers outstanding support, and is completely obsessive about tone. Although he isn't an engineer, he DOES know scientific process. When he chooses a component he A/B's it with alternates without changing anything else. Spends HOURS at it. And over many years, arrived at what he believed to be the best components at every position. And he has good ears. To my ear, he makes (or made) the best amps in the business. Harp Gear, Mission, Wezo, Meteor amps are very good too - but SJ's have been the best I've ever heard - and the most harp friendly, most feedback resistant amps I know.
I will say this. Gary is NOT a great businessman. He sold his amps for too little to make the business work. You can't build an amp with a better finished cabinet, 4 speakers instead of 2, premium transformers and caps, etc - and sell it for the same as the next guy. But he has other problems which have nothing to do with the amp business and he is entitled to do whatever he wants.
The closest amp I've heard to the Avenger is the HG1210.
I LOVE my Avenger - I get compliments all the time and every harp player who plays through it likes it. Give Gary some slack. He may be back some day. Until then - if you can get your hands on an Avenger - do it. If not - there are plenty of good amps out there. ---------- /Greg
Enough with the backhanded compliments and snide innuendo not to mention insults. Cult of Sonny Jr amps indeed. There is no cult. Just a whole bunch of people who have bought Sonny Jr amps really like them, have gotten great service from Gary, and get pissed off when someone rabbits a load of bollocks about the man and his amps.
As to whether or not he is a pro level player personaly I could care less about Rick not finding "evidence" but if you want evidence I submit this. Sonny Jr. and Sugar Ray Norcia
And please note the way they compliment with respect rather than compete.
Last Edited by on Dec 07, 2012 9:18 PM
