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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Help on the harmonica market
Help on the harmonica market
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tpbiii
1 post
Sep 02, 2009
5:53 AM
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Hi all.
This is my first post. The question I wish to ask is really the reason I joined.
My problem is this -- I need to find a less expensive quality harp to use instead of the Special 20.
Let me elaborate. I have been playing harmonica since I was 10 -- I have been playing for 55 years.
I started out playing straight gospel, but in the 1960s my wife and I played folk music -- harmonicas around the neck, etc. Embarrassing but true.
By the mid 1960s, I was playing a lot of cross harp, and graduated to positions. I am now struggling with overblowing.
I am good enough that I am often called on to be a side man for blues, country, folk, and gospel -- although I don't really know these genres well. My home genre is really bluegrass -- I went over to the dark side about 35 years ago. Bluegrass harmonica is certainly a pastime for people who like abuse.
I played a lot of bluegrass harmonica in the 1980s and 1990s, mostly because my other instrumental and vocal skills were not yet developed enough to hang out with the good guys -- you can't be a one trick pony and really participate in bluegrass. However, for the past 15 years or so, my wife and I have had a bluegrass band. I guess we have done ok -- in 2006 we were inducted together into the "Hall of Honor" of the "Atlanta Country Music hall of Fame."
I play less harmonica now -- maybe 2-3 songs per set while performing bluegrass on stage, and lots of jams and support roles. My wife and I live to jam -- here I mean pure acoustic (often but not only bluegrass) jams for the pure joy of making music with other people.
I never really learned to play harmonica in the way I learned guitar, banjo, and even voice. For me harmonica is a pure right brain activity -- I just hear the music and it happens. I never practice and I never use tab or music. I have no doubt that I could to better if I did, and I certainly have a more scripted approach to the other instruments, but for me this approach to the harmonica is so stress free and satisfying that I am not really tempted.
I ware out a lot of Special 20s, and I have bought many hundreds over the years. I play "backwards," and I tried many harps in my life, but I settled on the Special 20 maybe 30 years ago, and never looked back. For me, they are better than, say, Lee Oscars because they are a bit stiffer and you need that extra drive when acoustically facing a flathead Granada on Remington Ride in a parking lot or an F5 on Roanoke. At the same time, you need really clean notes when playing straight fiddle tunes.
As I am sure you all are aware, the price of Special 20s have pretty much doubled in a very few years. I have not kept up with the harmonica market, so I don't know if there are any less expensive alternatives that can give the sound and take the abuse.
Tell me what you know. I would really appreciate your help.
Best,
-Tom
Last Edited by on Sep 02, 2009 5:58 AM
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Kingley
349 posts
Sep 02, 2009
6:24 AM
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There are many different brands of harmonica available now. However the decent ones all start around the price of the Special 20. My advice for what's it worth is "if it ain't broke don't fix it".
I don't think you will find a cheaper harp that plays as well as the Special 20.
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tookatooka
440 posts
Sep 02, 2009
6:50 AM
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You may want to consider the new Suzuki Manji when it comes out in the autumn. It's had some very good reviews so far. Brendan Power plays very fast Irish fiddle music and plays mainly Suzuki harps. It could be just what you are looking for. There are some Manji threads on this forum which will give you all the info, plus videos of Brendan demostrating it. We've been told replacement reedplates will be available.
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When I'm not blowing, I'm drawing.
Last Edited by on Sep 02, 2009 8:13 AM
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ness
51 posts
Sep 02, 2009
7:06 AM
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Maybe invest in something with replaceable reeds. For example, a Suzuki Promaster is around $45, but replacement reeds are around $20 a pair. It's built like a tank -- with an aluminum comb and heavy chrome covers -- so you could expect it to last forever, approximately.
Last Edited by on Sep 02, 2009 7:32 AM
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RyanMortos
283 posts
Sep 02, 2009
7:44 AM
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Tpb(3)i, might I suggest checking out hohner big river harmonicas.
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~Ryan
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
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Greg Heumann
135 posts
Sep 02, 2009
7:55 AM
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Agree with all of the above. The SP20's are the LEAST expensive harps that I would recommend as "gig worthy." You can replace them a few times for the cost of many others. But if they're wearing out on you quickly, it usually means you're overplaying them - straining too hard on bends or simply blowing too hard. I went through a phase where I blew out a lot of them - but I don't any more.
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/Greg
http://www.BlowsMeAway.com
http://www.BlueStateBand.net
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sorin
48 posts
Sep 02, 2009
8:43 AM
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Like Greg said , it's big chance you play them too hard ,the cheapest solution for your problem is to learn how to replace reeds ,the most expensive it gets is like $2 .
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KingoBad
75 posts
Sep 02, 2009
10:40 AM
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I think Big Rivers do just fine. Just a bit more expensive is the Delta Frost, which I would recommend highly! For your money, I would say Delta Frost is your best bet.
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congaron
101 posts
Sep 02, 2009
10:52 AM
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Suzuki harpmasters can be found for under $20 on the web. They are very nice too and the plates interchange with the promasters...phosphor bronze on the promaster reeds! I have both and like them both.
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528hemi
28 posts
Sep 02, 2009
6:37 PM
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I bought almost all the brands to compare keep in mind I am still an advanced beginner but for the Money, the Suzuki harpmaster would be my choice. I have special 20's, all the other higher price Suzukis, Lee Oscar and a 90.00 Sydel.
I believe I paid about 21.00 for the Harpmaster and it plays nicely for me.
Last Edited by on Sep 02, 2009 6:38 PM
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sorin
49 posts
Sep 02, 2009
9:41 PM
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2 things: 1. I don't know much about bluegrass harp , but if it involves a lot of chords I don't think a Suzuki harp is the best choice , 2. and if he blows Sp20 , than I think a Suzuki harp will get bad even faster because of the tighter slot tolerance
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tpbiii
2 posts
Sep 02, 2009
9:56 PM
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Thanks so much for all the information. This seems like a fine place indeed!
" Tpb(3)i, might I suggest checking out hohner big river harmonicas."
I tried a big river when they first came out about 15 years ago, and it worked fine -- I just used it for awhile and was happy. Then I bought a second one -- an F I think -- and I was not happy. It is really hard to remember exactly why. Maybe they deserve a second look.
"Maybe invest in something with replaceable reeds. For example, a Suzuki Promaster is around $45, but replacement reeds are around $20 a pair. It's built like a tank -- with an aluminum comb and heavy chrome covers -- so you could expect it to last forever, approximately."
"Suzuki harpmasters can be found for under $20 on the web. They are very nice too and the plates interchange with the promasters...phosphor bronze on the promaster reeds! I have both and like them both"
I really know very little about Suzuki's, although I have been hearing about them for awhile. I have had a valved 10-hole Suzuki for a long time -- I think it cost like $50 many years ago. It is a cute toy, and you really can do amazing things on both low blow and high draw notes. However, I guess I never seriously thought about dropping multiple $Ks on large numbers.
"Agree with all of the above. The SP20's are the LEAST expensive harps that I would recommend as "gig worthy." You can replace them a few times for the cost of many others. But if they're wearing out on you quickly, it usually means you're overplaying them - straining too hard on bends or simply blowing too hard. I went through a phase where I blew out a lot of them - but I don't any more."
If you mean by "giging" that a mic is in use, then I don't find it hard at all to make the sounds I want without stressing the harp. I guess when I first started working individual notes many years ago, I probably did push them too hard -- most people do. But eventually most people seem to find the "effect edges" where you can get the tone and pitch you want with less air motion. However, that only works if you have good amplification or a quite (or cooperative) musical environment in which to work. Unfortunately, most bluegrass jams are both acoustic and loud. In generally, harmonicas are not well accepted in bluegrass because there are a lot of bad players out there -- straight harp players that play lines that are not expressive enough, blues players who play licks and don't know enough about the music, and people who can't fill a break slot because they don't make enough noise. To prevent the last problem, you do have to move quite a lot of air.
The failure mode of my special 20s is seldom "blowing out" a note, although it does happen. Mostly, the notes just lose purity -- I think of it as getting fuzzy. Back when I was young and really poor, I used to retune the reeds using files -- it works for awhile, but given the time it takes to do it, I don't think it is worth it. It certainly not just that the fundamental pitch is off -- if that were true, bend notes would still sound fine because you control the pitch -- but they don't.
I have never replaced an individual reed. That would be interesting to investigate - it never occurred to me that it might be possible. Problem is that when I retire a harmonica, it is seldom because of one or a few "bad" notes. Mostly they are retired when all (or most of) the notes are "fuzzy." I am sure I am using the wrong vocabulary here.
Well, I am off to buy a Suzuki or two
Thanks again.
Best,
-Tom
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Ant138
116 posts
Sep 03, 2009
1:45 AM
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Try a Seydel Soloist Pro, it's a great harp.
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jbone
137 posts
Sep 03, 2009
4:20 AM
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to me it sounds like you are playing at fairly loud volume acoustically. and this is necessary for what you're doing. am i right?
the fly in the ointment is, reeds will eventually fatigue and give that softer and less crisp response they have when fairly new.
my wife and i also do an acoustic duo, blues and roots mostly. usually unamplified, but we do regularly use twin silvertone 1482 amps. single 12" speaker, 12-15 watts. whatever the case, i don't go through nearly as many harps as i used to when i mainly played with amped 4 and 5 piece blues bands. the constant struggle to both hear myself and be heard over too-too-amplified guitars, drums, keys, etc, led to a lot of fried reeds. these days it's much simpler and volume is lower. we play at a farmers market or on the street and my philosophy is, if we aren't being heard by just everyone in sight, that's ok. the ones who are interested will come closer, the others, well if it ain't their cup of tea, that's fine.
seydel makes a stainless steel reed harp that should last a good long time. i don't recall the model and have yet to afford one myself.
you may want to take a look at a custom harp from say the joe filisko guild of customizers. a custom performs with much less breath force and can be played with draw bends and overblows at higher volumes. the expense is justifiable if you consider that a custom can last longer and be repaired along the way by the customizer.
i used sp20 for a lot of years but was never happy with how long- or short- they lasted me. my big breakthrough was when i began accessing deeper into my torso and using the air column we all have but many of us never really use. breathing and voice exercises and relaxation techniques, and even creative visualizations, all figure into playing resonantly.
i used big river quite a bit for years also. the issue i had was, a set of ms reed plates cost more than a new big river harp for a while there! and the ms plates are just not as dependable as i wanted.
have you looked at or considered bushman delta frost? they are also a phosphor bronze reed, braised on. i've had fairly good success with them and keep several in my case. they generally play well for me in either 1st, second, or third positions.
a lot is changing for the better in the harmonica industry. whatever else you decide, you owe it to yourself to take a good look at what's been changing. i think potentially the biggest change is from suzuki with the new manji harp. i am going to wait for reviews from joe average once they are available in a month or 2. they will cost a bit more but if they are as good as touted they will be worth it.
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