TetonJohn
1 post
Nov 26, 2012
1:15 PM
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I've been on harp-l for more than 10 years, but this board keeps showing up when I google harp related stuff! And, it seems to have lots of activity, so congrats! Thought I'd post a question here. Thanks in advance!
I have a tweed Champ clone (very early Harpgear w/o the harp specific mods, so very original 5F1 specs). I'm planning to gig with it soon -- the band leader is getting more comfortable putting amps in the monitors, so I'm getting to experiment with my smaller amps (last gig was with a Greg H. Kali 2 -- fun to get it out of the living room!).
I'm wondering what speaker might be good to check out in addition to the Weber Sig8A that the Champ came with? The amp sounds fine, but I'm always curious about other possibilities.
One big concern is fit. I've done some poking around on the Weber site which shows only 1 8" in their standard Vintage Series that appears to fit (doesn't have the doesn't-fit-tweed-champ disclaimer, maybe they just forgot to mention). However, that speaker (8F150 I think it was) is described as bright, so I've ruled that one out. Apparently the ceramic Sig would fit -- I have nothing against ceramics -- I have a 10F150-O in a BF Princeton Reverb and love it. Weber also has a "Chicago Vintage Series" with two possible 8s (one alnico and one Ceramic) -- they apparently would fit. I have heard nothing about that series for harp.
Any thoughts you folks might have on how some different speakers might sound for harp in a Champ clone amp are appreciated. (I emailed Brian P just a bit ago -- and Weber awhile ago, too, but thought I'd put the question out there more broadly.)
Other background: my EV638 (dynamic) is my favorite mike with this amp -- not overly compressed or distorted, and full/rich sounding. I've been using a Lone Wolf Tone + which tones down the brightness nicely -- makes it sound like a harp-modded Champ probably! That pedal may be more "influential" on sound than a different speaker.
Okay, maybe this is too long and selfish for a first post! (I'll try to be helpful here when I can.)
Be well, everybody.
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2012 1:17 PM
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MJ
520 posts
Nov 26, 2012
1:25 PM
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I have used the Weber 8F125O in a few of my 5F1 champ clone type amps and love them. Nice bottom and not too bright. They are smooth cone, 30 oz. ceramic magnet. They fit easily in the cab.
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2012 1:26 PM
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TetonJohn
2 posts
Nov 26, 2012
1:43 PM
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Hmmm, Weber site says for BF and SF Champs -- I had assumed that was about fit, but maybe they are referring to matching the speaker sound/specs to what was original. I hope you are right about fit; that gives me way more options.
https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/
Edit: Oh, it even specifically says will not fit in Tweed and early BF Champs...
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2012 1:48 PM
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MJ
521 posts
Nov 26, 2012
1:45 PM
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I have those speakers in a SF Champ, and Vibro Champ as well. There is more space in my 5F1 Cabinet than in the Champ cabs. I believe there should be room in your Harpgear cab. Check the dimensions.
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Joe_L
2186 posts
Nov 26, 2012
2:06 PM
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An 8A125-O with the H dustcap rocks in my tweed Champ clone. I believe that will fit in the cabinet. Brian was running a 8A-100 in his. I don't think it's a standard Champ size cabinet. Ask Brian Purdy.
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TetonJohn
3 posts
Nov 26, 2012
2:08 PM
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"Check the dimensions" -- will do!
"Ask Brian Purdy" -- have done -- awaiting.
Interesting, the basic diameter and depth dimensions of the speakers from the website do not match with their determinations of fit (some speakers with the same measurements say different things about about fitting a tweed champ -- I'm guessing it has to do with width towards the back of the speaker e.g. frame shape and/or magnet diameter. And yeah, maybe the HG cab is a tad larger than the original Champ.
Thanks, all!
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2012 2:10 PM
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MJ
522 posts
Nov 26, 2012
2:01 PM
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I will try to post a pic of the speaker in my 5F1
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Joe_L
2187 posts
Nov 26, 2012
2:17 PM
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Read the last paragraph of the following blog entry:
BrianP's 8" Speaker Review
Guess who BrianP is?
One more thing, I have the bell cover on the speaker in my amp. There is room to spare between the tubes and speaker.
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Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2012 2:18 PM
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MJ
523 posts
Nov 26, 2012
2:22 PM
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Speakers are funny thing in some ways. They are a bit like the color red. Ask someone to describe red and you will get myriad answers. I personally would have a ceramic speaker than Alnico speaker. But that's just me.
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TetonJohn
4 posts
Nov 26, 2012
4:51 PM
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Few thoughts:
Thanks for sharing the Brian P. review from 2006; I'll re-read and let it sink in some more. I believe that was before the Weber Chicago Vintage Series came out; still wondering about those (CVC8 and CVA8), esp. because the Weber site assures fit in tweed Champ.
Also, w/o hearing back from Brian, I'm not sure about what might fit in this early version of his (a Mosaic made by Tungsten amps per chassis label)-- might be a bit diff. from eventual HG1; I see one of the speaker mounting bolts was even cut down to make room! The transformers are close to the speaker frame (not just a tube issue). Brian might not even know for sure as this was an early model, probably a bit experimental.
Also, I'm leaning toward trying a Weber ceramic because I have liked them in some other small amps. I have respect for Brian, but just becasue he (or anyone) might like a ceetain speaker best does not mean i will -- no offense meant to anyone!
I'll keep you posted if/as I hear anything from Weber or Brian. Thanks again for your help.
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2012 4:52 PM
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TetonJohn
5 posts
Nov 27, 2012
9:37 AM
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Reporting back in (heard from Weber), bought a speaker.
I decided to play it safe (fit-wise) and go with one of the 8" speakers that Weber says will fit a tweed Champ for sure. I decided on ceramic(a matter of taste, expecting a somewhat fuller, less compressed sound). So it was just between two speakers, the Signature Series and the Chicago Vintage Series (CVC8).
I decided on the CVC8 because:
1) 16oz. magnet (vs. Ceramic Sig's 10oz.) for a bit more bottom.
2) the CVC is described as medium breakup (vs. Sig's early breakup -- I expect this description is based on the ribbed cone of the CVC vs. smooth cone of the Sig). I get plenty of breakup from driving the 5 watt amp, and so I don't think I'll need any additional from the speaker -- just my thinking FWIW; same logic as using my EV638 vs. a crunchier element).
3) The 10 watt rating of the CVC (vs. 15 watt for the Sig)should be fine for the Champ
4) Little Bonus: CVC is pre-broken in.
So that's the rest of the story.
Well, the real rest of the story will be when I get it installed and try it -- I'll let you know.
Thanks again for your help, and be well.
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Rick Davis
915 posts
Nov 27, 2012
10:34 AM
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I agree with Joe-L: Weber 8A125O speaker will sound great.
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
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Joe_L
2190 posts
Nov 27, 2012
11:25 AM
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I recorded this with the 8A125-O in my tweed Champ clone. The thing that I liked about this speaker was that it cut down some of the brightness, but didn't make it sound overly dark. The amp was cranked. I used one of those "crappy" Astatic JT30 Roadhouse mics. The amp was mic'ed w/ a Shure 520DX straight into the sound card on the computer.
Tweed Champ Clone
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Last Edited by on Nov 27, 2012 11:30 AM
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Rick Davis
922 posts
Nov 27, 2012
9:27 PM
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TetonJohn, are you still playing at the Stagecoach Bar in Wilson?
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
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TetonJohn
7 posts
Nov 28, 2012
7:32 AM
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Lately mostly at the Silver Dollar Bar in the historic Wort Hotel in downtown Jackson. I'm still a regular at the weekly, all-acoustic JH Hootenanny which is up at Dornan's in Moose -- the Hoot does an annual show at the "Center for the Arts" (new since you were here -- unless you've visited recently) a VERY nice theatre on S.Cache built maybe 6 years ago -- seats about 200 in orchestra and 300 in balcony -- red velvet curtain, single condenser mike, amazing acoustics, very, very fun! A documentary was made a few years ago about the Hoot called "Hoot in the Hole," been on some public TV -- it's been going on now since about 1993, so it's darn near historic -- continues to be hosted by Bill Briggs, the first guy to ski the Grand Teton.
Still a great place to live, even though more developed than when you were living here.
Last Edited by on Nov 28, 2012 7:34 AM
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Rick Davis
924 posts
Nov 28, 2012
7:59 AM
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I miss Jackson Hole. I plan on getting up there in the spring and hang at my old haunts: The Coach, Cowboy Bar, Dornan's, Mangy Moose, the Wort, etc. Good times, good music.
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
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