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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Name the harp player
Name the harp player
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Elwood
31 posts
Apr 25, 2009
3:47 AM
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In 2004 I bought a Muddy Waters collection from his days with the Blue Skies label. It was the first CD I owned that crossed all the way into the blues and, yeah, it blew my mind, every time I listened to it, which was pretty much every day that summer -- and it led directly to my obsession with blues harmonica. What I didn't realise is that Muddy had more than one harmonica player (perhaps I thought it was one guy with an unbelievable range) and only recently have I been able to pick apart which tracks are featuring which harmonica players.
But this version of 'Baby Please Don't Go' is still a mystery to me. (Conveniently, the Amazon excerpt features the harp solo in that song*.) At the risk of further exposing my ignorance, I'm tempted to say it might be Paul Butterfield, but then, I haven't listened to a great deal of Butterfield yet. (Feel free to post your derision on the current Butterfield discussion elsewhere in this forum.)
So, please set me right.
*a solo, I'll have you know, that causes an immediate tightening of the scrotum every time I play it.
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post script: If you haven't got this version of Deep Down In Florida please please please get your hands on it. I think it's on Hard Again. Really amazing accompaniment from... er... James Cotton?
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GamblersHand
7 posts
Apr 25, 2009
4:13 AM
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I'm pretty sure that both tracks you mention are from the "Muddy Mississippi Waters" live album, which features the great James Cotton on harp.
Most of the Blue Skies recordings had Cotton on harp, except for "I'm Ready" where it was Walter Hornton.
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Zhin
247 posts
Apr 25, 2009
4:49 AM
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"The following chronology of the harmonica players in the Muddy Waters Band was compiled by Robert Eagle and edited by Scott Dirks. - Glenn Weiser"
"1946: Jimmy Rogers
1947: Little Walter?
1948: Little Walter
1949: Little Walter
1950: Little Walter (recording with Muddy by about June 1950: CHESS #1434); Jr. Wells
sitting in
1951: Little Walter
1952: Little Walter: left sometime after "Juke" became a hit.
1952, late: Jr. Wells (including WHO'S GONNA BE YOUR SWEET MAN (CHESS #1542); STANDING AROUND CRYING and GONE TO MAIN
STREET (both CHESS #1526) and IODINE IN MY COFFEE).
1953, early: Jr. Wells (until called up - "short time")
1953, mid-winter: Walter Horton (for 6 or 8 months - "a good while")
1953, late: Henry "Pot" Strong. Jr. Wells back, Absent Without Official Leave.
1954, early: Henry Strong (until his death: 3 June 1954)
1954, June: George Smith (for a year)
1955: George Smith (until about June)
1955, mid: probably George Smith
1955: Jr. Wells? (possibly for a short time while Absent Without Official Leave)
1956: Elgie "Little Sonny" Willis?
1956: James Cotton? (from 1955?) found at West Memphis, Arkansas.
1957: James Cotton
1959: Isaac Washington for United Artists LP in New Jersey - hired by Alan Lomax for Muddy's Carnegie Hall concert.
1959: James Cotton?
1959: Willie Anderson for approximately one month.
1960: James Cotton
1961: James Cotton (to about August when he went to England.)
1962, about February: George "Mo - Jo" Buford
1962, August: George "Mo - Jo" Buford still
1962, about December: George "Mo - Jo" Buford (moved to Minneapolis in about December 1962/ January 1963, left after Pat Hare, but he took Pat with him).
1963: James Cotton
1964: James Cotton (including November 1964 at Cafe Au Go Go, New York City.)
1965: James Cotton (including 2 July 1965)
1966: James Cotton (including 25 April 1966 at San Francisco) (Arhoolie LP #1032)
1966, June: Cotton left to form own group (refer Blues Unlimited 35 / 6)
1966, about July: George Smith (including NYC, August 1966) (refer Jazz Journal October 1966).
1966, November 25: George Smith (NYC) (refer Jazz Journal May 1967)
1966, about December: George Smith (left a "few weeks ago" as at 3/1/67)
1967: George Buford (replaced Smith & including July 1967 & November 1967) (refer Record Research 88/5)
1968, about March: Birmingham Jones (to about October 1968)
1968, November: Paul Oscher (incl English tour) (refer Blues Unlimited 59/12)
1969, January: Paul Oscher (Philadelphia) (refer "Road Runner")
1969 Jeff Carp and Paul Butterfield for "Fathers & Sons" recording sessions only.
1969, about December: Paul Oscher
1970, about June: Carey Bell (on tours and including November 1970 in Sweden & England)
1971: George Smith
1971: Paul Oscher, 4 May 1971?
1971, June: Paul Oscher (and Cotton for recordings)
1971, December (UK): Carey Bell
1972, about March: George "Mo - Jo" Buford (replaced Paul Oscher in March 1972) (refer Blues World 37/ 9)
1972, March: Cotton, for recordings
1972, June (Europe – France/ Switzerland): Buford
1972, September (Michigan): Buford
1973, May: George "Mojo" Buford in Australia.
1973, June 29: Buford
1974, January 16: probably Jerry Portnoy
1974, January 29/30 (recordings): Buford, Paul Oscher, Carey Bell
1974, Santa Cruz: Carey Bell
1974, July 24: Jerry Portnoy
1974, September: Jerry Portnoy in Australia
1975, 1975, February 6/7 (Woodstock recording sessions): Butterfield
1976, April: Portnoy
1976, October 4/10 (Blue Sky recordings): James Cotton
1976, October 22 (Poland): Jerry Portnoy
1976, October 29 (Germany): Portnoy (and Wells sitting-in)
1976, November 4 (Switzerland): Portnoy
1976, November 25: Butterfield (live)
1977, March 18: Portnoy
1977, July 9 (France): Portnoy
1977, October/ November: Portnoy and Horton (Blue Sky)
1978, August 27 (Blue Sky recordings): Cotton
1979: Portnoy
1980: Portnoy and Cotton (Blue Sky recordings). Portnoy left in 1980 to form The Legendary Blues Band.
1980, August 16: Buford
1981, November 22: Buford (and Wells sitting in at Checkerboard Lounge)"
Source:
http://www.celticguitarmusic.com/muddyharp.htm
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http://www.youtube.com/harmonicazhin
Last Edited by on Apr 25, 2009 4:49 AM
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Elwood
32 posts
Apr 25, 2009
4:55 AM
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Thanks, GH. The collection I refer to features a studio recording of Deep Down in Florida, so I don't think it's necessarily the same version.
According to the artist listing at Harmonica Masterclass ( www.harmonicamasterclass.com/m.htm ) it could be Jerry Portnoy or Cotton. So I'm just as confused...
According to the same list, apparently I'm Ready features both Portnoy and Walter Horton.
But listen to me trying to be such a wise ass after I've made it abundantly clear I'm more of an ignoranus.
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Elwood
33 posts
Apr 25, 2009
4:59 AM
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Ha, Ignoranus... Geddit? GEDDIT?
Oh well.
Thanks, Zhin. I'm not sure of the recording dates either, is the thing... Lost the liner notes while moving to a new city -- all I have is the digital versions.
If you listen to the snippet provided by Amazon, surely one of you aficianados can spot some signature moves in the solo?
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Elwood
34 posts
Apr 25, 2009
5:08 AM
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Sorry to keep posting here. This is becoming a monologue...
Actually, I think this version of "Baby Please Don't Go" might well be Jerry Portnoy, recorded Live at Molde Jazz Festival 1977...
Thoughts?
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Elwood
35 posts
Apr 25, 2009
7:19 AM
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I'd say three consequtive posts is bordering on angry-ex-girlfriend-who-won't-stop-calling kind of crazy -- and only a few steps down wild-eyed-babbling-to-self-on-the-sidewalk kind of crazy.
Thanks to both of you, Zhin and GH, for helping me solve the mystery.
GamblersHand: the Wikipedia entry on 'Muddy "Mississippi" Waters -- Live' doesn't mention whether its Portnoy or Cotton playing on the live version of 'Deep Down in Florida'. Presumably it's Cotton?
Zhin: Thanks for the tangent, and the reassurances. Incidentally, are you a Kuala Lumpur man? I used to go to the Alice Smith high school in KL (1999-2001). Let's assume that's a good thing.
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Tuckster
182 posts
Apr 25, 2009
7:25 AM
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Elwood-the harper in your first post. I'm 99% sure it's not Cotton or Butterfield. My guess, and it is a guess,is either Carey Bell or Mojo Buford.
Zhin-thanks for that list. Its wonderful.
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Zhin
252 posts
Apr 25, 2009
7:38 AM
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"Elwood-the harper in your first post. I'm 99% sure it's not Cotton or Butterfield. My guess, and it is a guess,is either Carey Bell or Mojo Buford."
Ohhhhh
My bad then.
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http://www.youtube.com/harmonicazhin
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Zhin
253 posts
Apr 25, 2009
8:03 AM
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Elwood,
"I'd say three consequtive posts is bordering on angry-ex-girlfriend-who-won't-stop-calling kind of crazy -- and only a few steps down wild-eyed-babbling-to-self-on-the-sidewalk kind of crazy."
It's a Saturday night. I'm chilling out at the MBH and in a chatty mood that's all!
Alice Smith huh? Which part of KL did you stay at?
Anyways why would be it be a bad thing?? I think that's cool!
You still in KL? Well, if you ever wanna jam I can help out. The more the merrier!!! If you got your own thing going on already that's cool too! I don't like playing every single song for 2 hours straight every other night and it would be nice to have someone else around to do something different!!
Please say you're still in KL man! :D
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http://www.youtube.com/harmonicazhin
Last Edited by on Apr 25, 2009 8:04 AM
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Elwood
38 posts
Apr 25, 2009
8:15 AM
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Sorry, Zhin -- would have loved to, but I moved away in 2001, back to my homeland of South Africa. But if I'm ever in the neighbourhood....
As for where I stayed: ended up in the hills of PJ, and before that it was... Taman Duta, if memory serves me correctly. Before that I was in Istanbul, Turkey.
As you can imagine, my accent is a trainwreck, lah.
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Zhin
254 posts
Apr 25, 2009
1:14 PM
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Elwood, that's wild man. Yalah, once you go to Malaysia your accent go kaput for sure la. lolz
Miss the food from KL?
Whats South Africa like? Do you get to play blues there??
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http://www.youtube.com/harmonicazhin
Last Edited by on Apr 25, 2009 1:15 PM
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Elwood
40 posts
Apr 25, 2009
4:40 PM
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the food, the people, and the laser tag, but not the mosquitoes.
South Africa is... well, a good place to play the blues, as there's much to be blue about, although blues is a bit of a cultural oddity here. Here in Cape Town I play open mic nights every few months, although if I'm honest with you (which I try to be Zhin, I really do) I'm not yet good enough for public consumption. But what the hell -- try and stop me, boys. :)
One element the South African predicament has added to my sense of blues culture is my political outlook, although I'll admit I'm more politicized than your average white boy. On that "end of the blues as we know it" discussion I harped on, if you'll forgive the phrase, about the complications of privilege in the blues tradition. (I gather people didn't particularly agree with my argument :P)
I guess my thoughts can be summed up by something a white South African named Rian Malan wrote in his memoirs, describing a blues band he and his socialist friends formed when they were growing up under South Africa's apartheid regime:
"...and there we were, Boer-boys [white kids], wailin' and hollerin' about Negro trouble and sufferin' at garage parties in the segregated white suburbs of John Vorster's South Africa. And nobody laughed at us. Isn't that absurd?"
-Rian Malan, My Traitor's Heart.
I still feel that uneasiness today when I encounter traditionalist blues music, both in South Africa where economic inequality is among the worst in the world, and elsewhere, in the developed world where the spectre of inequality isn't so faint either -- the idea that blues might be recreation for the privileged of the world, I find deeply troubling.
Ag, but there I go again. Sorry, chaps. I’m boring even me, and as I understand it this sticky issue is dealt with in Journeyman’s Road. It would probably be wise of me to read the arguments within before I start shooting my mouth off.
On a redemptive note, one semi popular and wholly decent harp player in Cape Town is Dave Ferguson. He’s no t strictly a bluesman; does a sort of one-man, beat-boxing/looping effort. It’s a great deal of fun. See him here: http://www.myspace.com/lonesomedaveferguson
Last Edited by on Apr 25, 2009 4:41 PM
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rustywater
43 posts
Apr 27, 2009
12:49 PM
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Elwood,
I cant seem to listen to the Baby Please Dont Go clip, but if the first of the 2 harp solos is introduced by Muddy saying words to the effect 'come in son' then the harp player is definately Portnoy and it is off the Muddy Mississippi Waters live CD. I had the original vinyl version. There was even a photo of Portnoy in there if I remember rightly.
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Elwood
43 posts
Apr 27, 2009
3:46 PM
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Rusty, that's amazing. Yep, in the turnaround, he says, "Come in, son!"
Gamblershand suggested it was Cotton, on the Muddy "Mississippi" Waters - Live album. Zhin weighed in suggesting it was Cotton, too (I think that post has been deleted?). Tuckster reckoned it was Carey Bell or Mojo Buford... And Rustywater votes for Portnoy, with some compelling evidence in favour.
All we can be sure of is that I was a freaking idiot to even mention Butterfield.
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Zhin
271 posts
Apr 27, 2009
7:32 PM
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Yeah took it off because it was a wrong guess.
Elwood, nothing idiotic about this discussion. Were all learning.
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http://www.youtube.com/harmonicazhin
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