harpdude61
1507 posts
Jul 24, 2012
12:10 PM
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I just want to thank hvyj for his great responses to many of my posts. Sometimes his response would ignite me to explore and learn new things. Sometimes a gentlemans debate would result. All good stuff!
Gonna miss ya buddy!
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Todd Parrott
986 posts
Jul 24, 2012
12:20 PM
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Did I miss something? Is hvyj no longer a member of the forum?
I appreciate hvyj as well, if nothing else for the fact that we both like the pre-MS Meisterklasses and the Hammonds.
Last Edited by on Jul 24, 2012 12:20 PM
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tookatooka
3008 posts
Jul 24, 2012
12:34 PM
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No! hvyj I've learnt so much from you man. Please don't leave. We need ya.
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Miles Dewar
1357 posts
Jul 24, 2012
1:06 PM
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Is hvyj not a member anymore? What happened?
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SuperBee
447 posts
Jul 24, 2012
10:46 PM
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Is this an announcement?
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harpdude61
1510 posts
Jul 25, 2012
2:12 AM
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He is not like others in the past that need to make a big announcement when leaving.
I just wanted to thank him.
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jim
1279 posts
Jul 25, 2012
6:39 AM
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Everybody does what s/he believes to be right and appropriate.
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Free Harp Learning Center
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HarpNinja
2589 posts
Jul 25, 2012
9:23 AM
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hvyj was not asked to leave the forum, nor was he kicked off.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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Jim Rumbaugh
762 posts
Jul 25, 2012
10:55 AM
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From hvyj I have learned ideas that have shaped my current understanding and approach to harmonica.
1) there are 3 main breath patterns for major scales:
12th position, 1st position, 2nd position
2) these same three breath patterns have corresponding minor scales:
3rd position, 4th position, and 5th position.
3) With 3 scales, major, minor, and blues, you can do most tunes.
that's all I need to know for now, and it's only taken 10 years to learn. :)
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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timeistight
720 posts
Jul 25, 2012
11:35 AM
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You can play major in 3rd position pretty easily, too. The corresponding minor position (6th) doesn't lay out as well unless you overblow.
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Noodles
151 posts
Jul 25, 2012
11:56 AM
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@Jim Rumbaugh
2) these same three breath patterns have corresponding minor scales:
3rd position, 4th position, and 5th position.
---
Jim, there are more than 3.
There are 12 Major Pentatonic breathing patterns that share the exact same breathing patterns for 12 Minor Pentatonic scales. The similar patterns are in the same key, but different positions.
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kudzurunner
3404 posts
Jul 25, 2012
12:03 PM
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At the risk of misspeaking, I believe that Frank and hvyj, after a notably ugly series of exchanges about two weeks ago, were informed that their ability to participate in this forum was being suspended for one week. The moderators as a group suggested this; I approved it.
Frank emailed me and I clarified the penalty. Both members have now been reinstated. Frank seems to be participating in good faith. I have no direct or indirect knowledge of whether hvyj has decided to leave the forum. He has the right, in any case, to participate or not participate, as all of us do, within the guidelines stated in the forum creed.
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timeistight
722 posts
Jul 25, 2012
12:31 PM
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"The similar patterns are in the same key, but different positions."
I think you mistyped there, Noodles: You can't be in the same key in a different position on the same harmonica.
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Noodles
153 posts
Jul 25, 2012
1:09 PM
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@Timesight
"The similar patterns are in the same key, but different positions."
--
Nice catch. Let me clarify.
There are 12 Major Pentatonic breathing patterns that share the exact same breathing patterns with 12 Minor Pentatonic patterns, that I know of. The similar patterns are in the same musical key, but played in different positions, requiring differently tuned harps.
For example:
(key of C on F harp)
Second Position MAJOR PENTATONIC SCALE
1D 2B 2D 3D** 3D 4D 5B 6B 6D 7D 8D 8B 9B 10D 10B*
(key of C on Ab harp)
Fifth Position MINOR PENTATONIC SCALE
1D 2B 2D 3D** 3D 4D 5B 6B 6D 7D 8D 8B 9B 10D 10B*
Same breathing patterns, both in same musical key, different harp because you’re playing in a different position, which also relocates the tonic notes.
If you keep the Major Pentatonic/Minor Pentatonic relationship, then you get the following positions that share similar breathing patterns:
Maj.Pent vs Minor Pent
1st and 4th
2nd and 5th
3rd and 6th
4th and 7th
5th and 8th
6th and 9th
7th and 10th
8th and 11th
9th and 12th
10th and 1st
11th and 2nd
12th and 3rd
So, if you play the Major Pentatonic scale in 6th position, the breathing patterns are the same as the Minor Pentatonic in 9th.
Notice the pattern
Last Edited by on Jul 25, 2012 1:22 PM
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SuperBee
450 posts
Jul 25, 2012
1:17 PM
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this is simply a way of saying each major key has a relative minor key which uses the exact same notes, is it not?
If only hvyj was here...
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MP
2371 posts
Jul 25, 2012
1:26 PM
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SuperBee,
yes. the term is enharmonic.
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name for info-
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Noodles
154 posts
Jul 25, 2012
1:36 PM
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Superbee wrote: this is simply a way of saying each major key has a relative minor key which uses the exact same notes, is it not?
----
I believe that Relative Minor is something altogether different and someone with more background than myself should explain it.
Don’t confuse Relative Minor with Pentatonic Minor and Major Pentatonic breathing patterns.
Every example I listed was all in the same key signature, key of C, for example, played on a variety of harps in different positions.
The Relative minor would be a different key signature altogether, Key of A is the Relative minor to the Key of C. A Relative minor has a different tonic note that its Relative Major. What I'm demonstrating moves the tonic around on the harp, since you're changing positions, but it's remains the same note, just in a different location.
Last Edited by on Jul 25, 2012 2:00 PM
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timeistight
723 posts
Jul 25, 2012
1:59 PM
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This is from Wikipedia:Relative keys are the major and minor scales that have the same key signatures. A major and minor scale sharing the same key signature are said to be in a relative relationship. The relative minor of a particular major key, or the relative major of a minor key, is the key which has the same key signature but a different tonic[...]
I think what Noodles is talking are parallel keys: major and minor scales that have the same tonic note. D minor (key signature one flat) and D major (key signature two sharps) are parallel keys. D minor and F major are relative keys: they both use the same key signature (i.e., one flat).
"The Relative minor would be a different key signature altogether, Key of A is the Relative minor to the Key of C."
Actually, A minor and C major use the same key signature: no flats or sharps.
Last Edited by on Jul 25, 2012 2:03 PM
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Noodles
155 posts
Jul 25, 2012
2:09 PM
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Timeistight
Thanks for clearing that up.
My intent was not to get into the theory, but only to
show that there are than 2 or 3 such similar patterns as stated earlier.
Last Edited by on Jul 25, 2012 2:12 PM
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Pistolcat
222 posts
Jul 25, 2012
2:18 PM
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I'd like to address the OP. It is a real loss if hvyj stops his participation here as he is THE best poster as in addressing the OP and getting relevant information across this vast and tangly web. There may be people here better players and there may be folks more versed in theory but no one as good at explaining and educating with some exceptions as to the "blues history" parts.
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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Jim Rumbaugh
763 posts
Jul 25, 2012
2:36 PM
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So how many people does it take to replace hvyj and have a theory discussion??????
All the above :)
OT: I stand by my post above, but I say, "start another thread to discuss theory"
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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timeistight
724 posts
Jul 25, 2012
3:17 PM
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Not sure why you're being snarky. Noodles and I were just trying to fill in the gaps for you.
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Jim Rumbaugh
764 posts
Jul 25, 2012
7:08 PM
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@noodles and Timeistight
I apologize for my comments.
You guys did a good job.
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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timeistight
725 posts
Jul 25, 2012
7:49 PM
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No worries, Jim.
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SuperBee
453 posts
Jul 25, 2012
11:49 PM
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Hey, yeah but that's what I mean. Sorry if i was being a little obtuse. The reason for the relationship which noodle observed and remarked on is that each major key has a relative minor. So play 1st position and get the major, move your tonic to the 6th of the major scale and play the relative minor (4th position). You'll get the same with 2nd and fifth if you play pentatonics.
But what I really said was "if only hvyj was here..."
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tookatooka
3014 posts
Jul 26, 2012
11:32 AM
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Has hvyj taken his very useful profile notes with him?
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KeithE
205 posts
Jul 26, 2012
1:17 PM
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@tookatooka - it's still there. Plus there's this thread
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Noodles
158 posts
Jul 26, 2012
1:26 PM
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@tookatooka Hvyj’s profile notes
I should also state that what I posted above regarding all the positions and breathing patterns originated from Hvyj’s notes. They got me thinking and prompted me to extend the process he had already started.
--- ---
RE: What happened to Hvyj
I’m a fairly new member of this forum and I didn’t sign up for faceless, Internet politics—life is too short. But, since there are a number of you who are interested and the explanations have been a bit vague, I thought I might give you my 2 cents. I was not involved directly, I don’t want to stir up a bunch of shit and I will keep my personal opinions to myself.
___ ___
I had started a thread recently; “I’m drawing a line in the sand.” It was quite active and generated some passions. I monitored it closely to defend my positions. As the thread was approaching its natural death, a few provocative words were written (by others) that had upset Hvyj. As the back-and-forth shots began to ramp up, the moderators stepped in and locked the thread from further comments. If no one has touched any of the posts, they’re on the 2nd page of that thread.
I like Hvyj. He’s thoughtful, explains himself better than most and is very well written. I hope he returns. Somehow I get the feeling he’s monitoring the aftermath. (Hi Hvyj!). He’s his own man and if he decides to return, he’ll do it in his own time.
Finally, since it’s out there for all to see anyhow, here’s Hvyj’s last post to the best of my knowledge.
I have no further comments on the issue and hope others will take the same stance.
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Zadozica
198 posts
Jul 26, 2012
1:57 PM
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Not always Jim, some people are just plain pricks (just a general comment folks, I am not referrencing anyone in particular)
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didjcripey
346 posts
Jul 26, 2012
2:32 PM
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Well I hope that Frank will be happy now, he got what he wanted.
Personally I think Hvyj showed dignity and restraint in responding to Franks personal attacks. The thread where Frank posted sound files of some crap playing by Hvyj and invited criticism established clearly in my mind who was the bigger man.
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Lucky Lester
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SuperBee
456 posts
Jul 26, 2012
2:41 PM
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Best to stay out of other peoples fights I reckon. It wasn't one way traffic
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timeistight
726 posts
Jul 26, 2012
3:13 PM
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@Noodles: The fight started long before your "line in the sand" thread. That was just the latest skirmish.
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didjcripey
347 posts
Jul 26, 2012
3:23 PM
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Quite right super bee; as someone on the site says 'I used to be young and foolish; now I'm not so young'
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Lucky Lester
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