This is my tweed cable from Chuck Gurney at Fat Bottom Harp Mics. I've owned it for several months and gigged it dozens of times. It costs $45.00.
I love it. Does it sound better than other cables? No, not really. It sounds better than my old worn out Planet Waves cable that I stepped on a million times. It sounds better than a cheapo bargain bin cable in Guitar Center that probably has faulty solders. But I don't think it sounds any better than most good cables.
But... everything about it exudes quality. It looks and feels expensive. It is supple and coils up without a hint of stiffness or memory. It is so well made I think I could swing from it.
The honest truth is a basic Live Wire cable (for example) will cost less than half as much and sound exactly the same. It may not last as long. It may not look as cool. But it will do the job.
So is it worth it? Yep, it is to me.
A few people have told me that braided fabric cables generate static electricity that can change the cable capacitance and cause noise. I've not seen any definitive data that supports the claim. In fact, Ovni Labs conducted a test of several high end cables and gave top ratings to cloth braided cables. I think the knock on cloth braided cables is a lot of hooey.
---------- -Rick Davis
Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2012 6:23 PM
I was gifted cheap XLR cables and they suck...they flat out break way too easily and are unreliable. I use Lava Cables for my pedals and usually for my mic and to my "amp".
The value, to me, is quality and the longevity/peace of mind...only the crappy of the crap really suck tone. ---------- Mike VHT Special 6 Mods Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
I got a new cheap cable the other day for a mic I had, to go with a small pa I just got the cheap cable is allready got a bad short in it and its only a few months old and never left the house,I hate buying cables guitars or mikes cables but I do believe the more money you spend on one the better off you are at least up to a point,I have a guitar friend that has the thickest guitar cable ive ever seen It cost a ton ,but its nice and has lasted him for years ---------- Hobostubs
Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2012 9:01 PM
Guitar players spend ridiculous amount of money on all kinds of cable they swear sounds better. It IS true that a cable has some capacitance and that can theoretically affect tone. However in order to do so it has to combine with resistance of the cable - and with decent cable in moderate lengths, that is also really minimal. I believe (without the scientific data to back it up) that there is no sonic advantage - I have tried making harp mic cables out the exotic (usually super thin) cables the guitar boys swear by and I have A/B'd them with the cables I make - can't hear a difference. Call it the Monster Cable phenomenon. With enough marketing, people with too much money will spend it for a perceived advantage even when laboratory tests show none exists.
Now then - the MECHANICAL assembly of cables is an entirely different matter. Cables take a beating and strain relief is very important. This is particularly true with screw-on microphone cables like the one shown in Rick's post above. Why?
Because it (the screw-on connector) is a very old design with definite weaknesses. I still love it - because I know how to work around them - and because it is simple, short, light, compact, secure, and vintage-appropriate. There really ISN'T a modern connector that does all that. But you know that spring where the cable enters the connector? (Or your Shure green bullet...) - That provides absolutely no benefit whatsoever in terms of strain relief!!!! The cable is free to spin inside that spring, which means it can spin inside the connector itself, which means if you ALLOW it to spin - it is going to either sever the center conductor or wrap the cable shield around the center conductor in short order - either of which are a big FAIL. If you buy a Hohner Roadhouse JT30, you get a cable going into a spring. Period. If you buy a cable from Chuck or me - you will get a cable where MANY steps are taken to mechanically lock the cable to the connector so that it cannot spin. I don't know about Chuck, but these days when I ship a cable I ALSO include a document that tells you how to make your cable last by educating you about how and why they fail, and how to avoid it.
So yes - sometimes it is worth paying more for cables!!!! ---------- /Greg
Are boutique cables worth it? IMHO (for what it's worth) no. Learning to correctly store cables in loose coils (so you're not putting the strain in the same place every time you wrap them) is far more important and will stop internal breaks. If you half the cable, half it again etc... and then tie round the middle, then you put a kink in the same place every time you do it. the metal fatigues and the cable breaks. Same if you wrap it round your elbow.
thats how your taught to roll up welding leads ,I never thought about it for guitar or mic cables but I guess it would work the same ---------- Hobostubs
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2012 2:38 AM
The longer the cable the greater the rolloff because of increased capacitance. Different cables do have different capacitance, and the thin high end guitar cables are also low capacitance. The capacitance is not a function of the thickness of the cable, but the shielding between the two, the wires, the length of the cable.
I have a 20 ft low capacitance cable from LAVA and have AB'd it against some lower cost cables and with harmonica it is hard to tell the difference and even if there is a difference, we tend to turn down the treble in our amps and use mic elements that do not emphasize highs, so the capacitance in the cheap cable may actually tend to voice harps the way we like them to sound. The Piazza harp mic mod actually adds a capacitor to the circuit.
The same cable combinations on a nice quality electric guitar made an obvious difference on the high end, but that is an instrument where the high end is emphasized and more important.
I do use the lava from my pedal board to the amp because that is what gets stepped on most, and have one of Greg's cables that works great to the pedals.
I did that over/under cable coiling thing for a while - but I found the chance of the cable being tied up in knots when I took it out of my gig case was much higher than just coiling it the normal way. However the normal way DOES put several twists in the cable and you have to both put them in and let them out without allowing a twisting stress between the cable and the connector! The best way is to hold the cable, not the connector, when coiling - like the guy in the video above. ---------- /Greg
@Rick: "But... everything about it exudes quality. It looks and feels expensive. It is supple and coils up without a hint of stiffness or memory. It is so well made I think I could swing from it."
That makes it worth every penny. Your perceived value it the true value.
You know those three dollar plastic string winders guitar players use. There is a mandolin maker whose instruments start around 15 grand and go upwards of 60. I can't do anything except dream of $30,000 for a used mandolin. He makes a wooden string winder for $45. "But... everything about it exudes quality." I believe mine is worth every penny that it cost.
Greg
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Just when I got a paddle, they added more water to the creek.
Many years ago there was a cable shootout in Guitar Player magazine. The best sounding cable they picked was George L's. The solderless connectors are super short so when you use a 1/4" to screw-on adapter it is quite shorter than a standard guitar jack and they sound good too boot. However, even a short 1/4" plug and a screw on is too long for me, so when I don't use my "roll your own" cables I usually use a Harmonica Masterclass cable.
i use cables that are 20 years old. they don't short or sound shitty compared to Monster cables.
a concur with MVLUN. learn how to wrap your cables. store them so they don't kink.
as a general rule, if you spend roughly 80 cents to a dollar a foot on a cable it'll be a good cable.
i like screw on connectors that accept any 1/4 gtr cord. cables that are made with female screw on to 1/4 jacks are problematic because you have to unscrew them to put your cable away. this loosens or wears on the solder drop on your mic.
you don't have to do that though. Rick Estrin used to use one of those but left it on the mic all the time to avoid this problem. he'd just dump the mic with the cable attached into his shaving kit along with his MBs. ---------- MP affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
@Greg: I know what you mean about mechanical assembly using the screw on connector. I've made many cables for myself doing this and they ultimately, always fail even though I don't use the spring for strain relief.
Regarding the super skinny boutique guitar cables, I use one with my Front & Center mic because the cable is so light and coils up so small. I've long thought about putting a screw on connector on the end to be able to use a similarly skinny cable for my other mics, but I just don't see how you can work with that skinny cable! If you have any tips, or if you're willing to do the work, please let me know.
This is where Chucks cables are superior-and by the way-Chuck does offer 1/4" terminaton at both ends if wanted.
Capacitance in cable is usually measured as picofarads per foot (pf/ft). It indicates how much charge the cable can store within itself. If a voltage signal is being transmitted by a twisted pair or coaxial cable, the insulation on the individual wires becomes charged by the voltage within the circuit. Since it takes a certain amount of time for the cable to reach its charged level, this slows down and interferes with the signal being transmitted. Digital data pulses are a string of voltage variations that can be represented by square waves with near-vertical rise and fall transitions. A cable with a high capacitance slows down these voltage transitions so that they come out of the cable looking more like "saw-teeth", rather than square waves, and the circuitry may not recognize the pulse. The lower the capacitance of the cable, the better it performs at higher frequencies.
Fat Bottom Harp Mic Cables High quality 3:1 adhesive lined shrink tubing used on all 5/8th screw- on fittings to lock the spring relief, housing and cable altogether as one
Hand-soldered Gold plated 1/4" tipped plug
Hand soldered 5/8ths Switchcraft vintage style screw-on fitting
Double & Triple layer shrink wrap
Convenient sewn on hook & loop tie strap
Wire gauge (AWG): 20
Center conductor: Oxygen-Free Stranded Copper center conductor
Inner Insulation: White polyethylene encapsulation
Click to enlarge picture or hold your cursor over each picture to see the process of shielding, high quality shrink tubing, and quality fittings.
Cable Specifications: 20 foot Harmonica Microphone Cables (Custom lengths available on request)
Fat Bottom Harp Mic Cables Double ended 5/8ths screw-on Switchcraft fittings, $10.00 extra, by request. Custom lengths under 20' available by request. ______________________________________________________
______________________________________________________ _
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2012 1:53 PM
I do the over-under thing with this cable because it is so easy. The cable is so supple and flexible it does not get all kinked and twisted.
I think premium cables like the ones from Greg and Chuck are worth the money, but not because they sound better than a good mid-priced cable. It's build quality, appearance, and reliability.
Are we talking price or performance? Because there is no linear connection between the 2. OK some extremely cheap cables are unlikely to ever perform well, but once you get past the £20/$30 mark for 10-15ft, you could spend anything up to £100/$200 for a great cable, or the same price for a "bit of wire" that simply connects your mic to the amp & allows "some" signal to pass.
I have done more mic cable testing than anyone and I haven't even scratched the surface considering all the brands & types out there.
Construction is more important than pf/foot specifically. Some very low capacitance cables are great, some are next to useless. A good sounding cable could very well be anywhere from 20-40pf/foot (from my experience, possibly more pf/foot?). George L is low capacitance, but a middle performer sonically. Sommer Spirit has about the same pf/foot but is noticably dull. Klotz La Grange (cheap in EU, mid priced in the US as there is only 1 importer) is comparable to the first 2 but MUCH more transparent.
Plug construction affects capacitance of the cable, I kid you not...measure some bare stock, assemble the cable, remeasure...you will have more capacitance.
Cables are consumables, they fail eventually, so pick a price point you are comfortable with and next time you are at the music shop, take a punt on a cable & compare it to what you use now (similar length ideally) - then you know whether to buy the now or old brand next time, or if you can't hear a diffrence - Wayhay! You have 2 good cables!:-)...Comparative testing is the only way to be sure...either that or buy the prettiest one ;-)
---------- www.myspace.com/markburness
http://www.facebook.com/markburness
Last Edited by on Jul 12, 2012 5:43 AM
In my experience, it is definitely worth the money to move from cheap ($5) mic cables to higher quality mid-priced ($15-20) ones. You get better durability and sound quality. And the connectors/plugs make better contact. An extra 10 bucks makes a big difference.
However, beyond a certain price point (say $25?) there are diminished returns and I think you are wasting your money.
I'm very satisfied with my collection of mid-range Cordial cables (12-16€) purchased online from Thomann.
Having said that... the vintage tweed looks really cool in the photo!
