I have searched this site to no end and cannot make up my mind which type of amp to buy. What is the best amp for the money? I want to keep the investment under $200. I have looked at the Bugera 5 and 15 as well as the Fender Champ 600 and fender Pro. I like the idea of having reverb. I normally play accoustic so I dont have a clue if I need anything else other than an amp and mic. Is 5 watt better than a 15 watt for harp? Lately I play in a small bar (not very loud) so if I went to a bigger setting I could always mic the amp?
I went through this about a month ago and got lots of good advice here. I ended up getting the Brugera V5 and am very happy with it so far. The tone is excellent, and the power attenuator feature is great for playing and practicing at home. Even at .1 watt you get a surprising volume level and can really turn up the volume and gain to get distortion. I don't have much experience with reverb, but it sounds like that feature works as well. For the price, I don't think you can go wrong. However, I should add that I was not able to try some of the other low watt amps suggested here - VHT Special 6, Fender Champ 600 and Epiphone Valve Jr. - so I can't compare the Brugera to any of them (I'm sure they would all work well). Also, I haven't played out much at all - just a small jam so far - so I can't tell you how well the Brugera would work in various settings, although I think it would be fine in a coffee house or similar setting. Rich
First off, this being your first amp, you're on the right track looking at 5 watt Class-A's and 15 watters. That's a good output to start playing and practicing amplified harp.
Reverb...the only one of those you mentioned thus far that has a reverb is the Bugera V5. It's becoming more popular for harp players lately. The Champ 600 and Pro Jr. both have their constituants as well. I don't know of anyone who's tried the Bugera BC15 for harp, but it looks like it has a solid state output, so I'd stay away from it.
And for what you're describing is your playing scene, yes a mic and amp should suit you just fine. But if you only have low-Z mics (ie-XLR vocal mics like Shure SM58s or SM57s), then you'll need an inline low-Z to high-Z adapter to plug the mic into the amp so it'll work properly.
And finally yes, mic'ing up the amplifier is an option, and some prefer it to using a line-out jack to a PA because that way the natural tones and distortion of the amp's speaker are conveyed as well. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
Ok with that being said, can someone recommend a mic? I am assuming a (from what I read) a high imp mic would give me that electric sound and a low imp mic would be crisp clear along the lines of the mic on a pa? When I play at the bar I sit in with a band and use a spare mic from their equipment. I want to be able to have that amplified sound on some of the stuff they play.
High impedance or low impedance, you can get the ballsy amplified tone with either. I'm just saying that to run a low-Z mic into an amplifier, unless the amp has a low-Z XLR input, you're gonna need an XLR female to 1/4" male impedance adapter so that A: you can get it plugged into the amp first of all, and B: the low-Z mic's signal will be converted to high-Z signal, which is what the amp will use in most cases.
Lots of harp players use low-Z mics like 57's, 58's, and 545's to great success.
If you want a high-Z mic specifically designed for harp, you're gonna have to refigure your budget. There are new production ones available from most music retailers to get you started if you want, but the really good ones are pricier, and are built, modded, and sold by the experts, many of which can be found on this very forum. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Jun 13, 2012 11:03 AM
You aren't going to get a good mic and a good amp for $200, so put most of your money into the mic. It's easier to borrow an amp than to borrow a harp mic.
If you just want to walk into your local guitar shop and get a mic, I'd recommend getting a Shure SM57 (around $100) and an inline low to high impedance transformer (maybe $25?). Don't buy any of new bullet mics they'll try to sell you instead. Then spend whatever you've got left on a cheap practice amp.
It is possible to pick up a decent vintage bullet mic for under $200, but you have to patient and careful or lucky.
I agree about buying a mic instead of an amp. Only I'd recommend a Shure 545SD. It can be wired either high or low impedance and has an on/off switch. It's one of the best mics around for harp. Playing a 545 cupped direct into a PA is a killer rig on it's own. They can be bought on ebay for under $100. Then the rest of the money I'd suggest you save and keep adding to, until you have enough money to buy a decent tube amp.
It converts the signal to a higher ohmage of resistance to the electrical current.
Low-Z mics use three conductors to carry their signal (ie- XLR, and some 1/4" or 1/8" stereo), the third acting in an analagous manner to the third prong on an electrical power cord plug. It provides a conduit similar to a neutral ground, therefore, the mic has less resistance to the current flowing through it.
High-Z mics have two conductors (ie- 1/4" mono, 5/8" screw-on), so the resistance to the current is much higher.
The transformer acts as a mediator between these two, and allows the signal to be carried across efficiently.
As Kingsley wrote, almost all Shure 545 models can be wired as high impedance, eliminating the need to purchase and carry a transformer (unless you want to plug into a low impedance input on a PA).
If you're a beginner, go and buy a modelling amp like the Line 6 range
Sorry Steve, but I wasted a lot of money on line 6, great guitar possibilities but not for harp IMHO
Wayyy too much feedback..
@undertheradar
If you are young and strong, don't mess about, spend a good deal of money on a Fender Bassman and have done with it! You will not need any other amp in your playing life and your sound will be AWESOME (assuming you are good!!:)
bottom line on impedance is, if you have a tube amp and want to get the overdriven and distorted rich tones of a tube amp, use a high impedance mic or transform a low impedance mic to high. this gives you the features which make a tube amp so popular. another way to go is, get a shure sm57 and plug into whatever p.a. is available where you play. or a 545s. both are good clean sounding but with a tight cup can be made to bark, and both can sound really nice if the channel on the p.a. is tweaked just so. one big reason to have a mic and amp of your own is that nobody controls your tone and volume except you yourself. very attractive at times.
i have a 4x10 replica '59 bassman which is really good with a full band but heavy to lug around. my main gigging amp in my duo and the small combo is a silvertone 1482, about 20 watts, single 12" speaker, much easier to lug. i use a shure bullet mic with a cm element. also have an electrovoice m43u mic modded by a pro which i love, and a custom mic built from a motorcycle turn signal bexel, a ruskin, with a shure crystal element. more for jazz and swing stuff, less bottom end but great bell like mids and highs. it took me years to get the gear i have and love. ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
Nobody has mentioned the Vox AD30. I just bought one here in Australia for under $200.00 so they should be cheaper in the US. I'm really happy with what I can do with this amp. It only has one valve, but it's on the output side of things and gives great tone. It has an output control on the rear which can alter the wattage all the way up to 30w (which is super loud) but can be as low as you like to practice in your bedroom whilst retaining all the settings you care to put into it. See if you can try one out, it might be just what you are after.
Also.. out of curiosity, why doesn't a solid state amp match up good with the harmonica? I have been finding great deals on stuff like the Marshall Guitar Amp - MG10CD Series and the 15w Fender Frontman Amp. Should I steer away from this type of amp?
if you like how it sounds, its good. only s/s amp i have is a pignose. its ok, kind of a one trick thing. heaps of guys like the modelling amps, which give some more tricks. haven't tried that f frontman, but the f mustang series have some fans, as do the roland cubes. not my cup of chai, but it maybe yours. there are LOTS of threads on this topic. try this one: http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/463264.htm ----------
I played through a Vox Pathfinder V9168R 15w 1x8 Guitar Combo Amp over in Paris and was amazed at the sound it put out. It's a solid state amp, too. Musicians friend has it for $119!
I can comment on that Marshall MG10CD. This was the first amp I ever bought. It was a good amp to get myself learned in amplified harp techniques. I still use it for very small gigs now and then, and I sometimes use it as a small monitor speaker for my harp mic. But after playing through tube amps for awhile now, I can tell you I much prefer tube tone over solid state.
Ok....modelling amps have been called. This is a go-to type of amp for me when a valve amp isnt available. I myself have a Peavey Vypyr 15, and out of all the SS modelling amps I've played through, the Vypyrs come closest to achieving tube tone. They take a little while to figure out the effects and the presets, but once you do, it really does work nicely for harp. The Vypyr 15 runs for $99 most places. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Jun 14, 2012 7:16 AM
I run a red howler mic through either a hot rod deluxe III or a marshall class 5, a bit ou of your price range? Yes, but i am very pleased with the sound i get. Get a mic, then save up $400 for a decent amp...
In my last post here, I meant to say that agree with the others in that you probably SHOULD get a good mic first, and then save for an amp later. Two mics you might consider to get you started that a lot of harp players favor are the aforementioned Shure 545SD, which has the dual impedance flexibility and on/off switch. Or, the Audix Fireball V, which is a dynamic mic designed for harmonica use. It's low-Z only, but it's more easily cuppable in your hands than the 545, and it has its own volume control as well. You can also plug either one of these into a PA and adjust your channel's EQ for whatever kind of tone you're looking for.
@Lazerface
I think you're the first harp player I've heard mention they use the Marshall C5. Can you comment on it's tone? My bass player has one, I've been thinking of trying it out.
This is a completely stock VHT Special 6 amp with a green bullet mic. None of the other amps mentioned in this thread can even come close to this kind of vintage blues tone.
The VHT Special 6 Combo amp sells new for about $230 but can be had for much less on the used market (eBay, Craigslist, etc).
Last Edited by on Jun 15, 2012 9:30 AM
"This is a completely stock VHT Special 6 amp with a green bullet mic. None of the other amps mentioned in this thread can even come close to this kind of vintage blues tone."
I agree 100%. The VHT is a killer amp. It sounds even better with a 545 than a bullet mic. A line out feature can be added for a couple of dollars and some time with a soldering iron. It's a very, very simple mod and extremely useful too. I have done the Jim Rossen mods to my VHT, which took me about twenty minutes to do. Those mods turn this little tone monster into an even better amp.
Last Edited by on Jun 15, 2012 9:55 AM
i agree that a shure 545 or sm57 is a good choice for mic. i don't think the audix fireball is. i had one for years, and while it's a nice mic, it has very little proximity effect and a beginner will find it hard to get a decent overdriven sound out of it.
as for modeling amps, the vox vt-30 is an excellent harp amp, and the fender mustang 2 is almost as good. i have both, having bought the fender as a backup amp (and yeah, just to have a new toy). there are 15 watt versions of both, with smaller speakers for less cash.
both have a variety of amp models and effects built in. both require some tweaking to get them to sound like you want. the vox uses a 12ax7 in its power section, which is perhaps why it gets me a sound that i can't get the fender to match. the fender gets close, but is just not the same. ----------
Yeah thanks for posting that, bharper, 1st I've heard one played with enough harp technique to demonstrate it. That seemed like it'd be pretty good for a duo or such situation. ----------
VHT is great for the money!! i Kept mine stock with the exception of USA made vintage tubes and a Lil Buddy. But even without those "mods" it is great right out of the box!
***UPDATE*** I did NOT buy an amp. I've spent the last 6 months or so playing with the same guys and I have grown to like the mic I have been playing out of out of th PA. It is an ElectroVoice ND357. I like playing with it in the mic stand so I can get my favorite hand effects. Now, I am looking at amps. After reading this thread again, the VHT gets alot of praise. If I get this amp, I will need the 3 prong to 1/4 adapter. If I want some distortion, I will need a transformer? Any more advice will be greatly appreciated as I am now on the move to get an amp. Thanks guys.
You'll need a transformer between your low impedance mic and a high impedance input on an amp. It has nothing to do with distortion, just compatibility and efficient signal transfer.
The transformer will also convert the balanced, three conductor output from your mic to an unbalanced, two-conductor connection that the amp expects. ----------
Playing music... it's a privilege.
Kim Wilson
Last Edited by timeistight on Feb 20, 2013 6:34 PM
Well, I guess it's about time for me to chime in with the Peavey promotion.
In your $200 budget.., I have 2 to tell you about. Bravo 112 - All tube, spring reverb, 25 watts or about the same as a Blues Junior. $125
Triumph PAG 60 - All tube(2x, 6L6's), Spring reverb. 60 watts. $175. I am so proud of this one, I left the Peavey emblem on it. You should hear it plugged into a 6x10 cabinet.
Surf Craigslist religiously.
If you are really firm on that $200 budget, explore the 1960's & 70's era tape recorder mics. Akai DM-13 and Sonotone CM-10A. About $25 on EBay. These are Hi Z mics and you won't need a transformer. I have a pair of CM-10A's, my only complaint is the short 10' cord. The DM-13's have a following here.
I believe you should probably consider that $200 as a down payment, because once you start down the amplified harp trail, there is no turning back.
Thanks for that timeistight. My last questiion for now is; Looking at the pictures of your transformer, would last be my adapter? Eleiminating the need for the unbalanced XLR to 1/4" ??? So it would be lowZ microphone, cable, transformer in (3prong) tansformer out 1/4", to amp. Is this correct???
hmmm the XLR to 1/4" IS the adapter I need ? I was under the impression that I need the adapter and the transformer. Please clarify as I'm going to get this for this weekend. I can always plug into some amps and try them out. But I need to complete the string from the mic to the un purchased amp. Sorry for all the questions. Yall have been great!
If you shop well and know what to look for you CAN get a decent hi z mic for $30 or $40. Shure 585, Astatic 332 are two that come to mind immediately. My next mic will likely be a 332 crystal when I get some more gig $ behind me. I just bought a Shure 585 locally for $32 and it's a very good hi z mic. If I had known and you had been close by I would have sold you a great amp for that $200. Silvertone 1482. My have had to mic it to the p.a. depending on how loud the band got but I use mine with guitar, bass, and drums often.
I've also had good results with sm57/58/545 mics into the p.a. I like the 545 or 57 better, they seem to compress signal easier for a fatter sound when it's wanted.
It would be easy to spend that whole $200 on just a mic. Be careful! ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
1/4 to xlr, yes, you need to accomplish that but you also need impedence matching. Your mic is low impedence so you have to convert to high impedence to plug into the amp. The transformer above does both. The transformer in first pic above is perfect. Which amp? If $200 would have accomplished what we need done that's what we would have. I really like the VHT sound as well but it won't do enough, meaning we often can't depend on running our own PA-monitors etc. to get properly in the mix. Depending on house PA's and "soundmen" is totally hopeless. Your current gig does run your own PA so I think VHT is a perfect choice, for now. We players need to be able to work a small room and a big room (again, what we need done) and that calls for two different rigs. So you need 2 amps. Get the VHT for now and deal with big sound (no PA) later.
Last Edited by Littoral on Feb 21, 2013 5:40 AM
If the amp is mic'd, what differnce does is make how loud the band is? I dont play alot of blues (although I love it) We play country, southern rock and bluegrass) So during the country/bluegrass stuff I'm just on the PA. The Sothern Rock is where I want the amp. If I have an amp that I like and want the same sound I practice on, wouldnt it make sense to just bring my small amp and mic to the PA? Just making my little amp louder with the PA system. Atleast thats the way Im thinking it works lol
Your question: "If the amp is mic'd, what differnce does is make how loud the band is?" I'll just quote the guy above "...we often can't depend on running our own PA-monitors etc. to get properly in the mix. Depending on house PA's and "soundmen" is totally hopeless." And: "Your current gig does run your own PA so I think VHT is a perfect choice, for now."
ha! I didnt do a very good job on my reply. I understand your reasoning, me being new to the amp thing, I was just clarifying nothing would change mic'ing the small amp. So maybe a bigger amp is the ticket. I could always mic the bigger amp, then in time if our sound man/ bass player goes away, I'll have a bigger amp to play with the band.
Om a lighter note, does anyone use a tube preamp into the PA? I used this practicing one afternoon and it sounded great. I guess only downside is PA = sound mans mercy.
Lighter note, yeah, I always need more of that. Forum Search for Harp Attack and Harp Break. Quite a few special discussions there for you to consider. In fact, the Harp Attack (tube pre-amp) would accomplish your under $200 question nicely -given that you have PA under control.
Last Edited by Littoral on Feb 21, 2013 7:18 AM
"On a lighter note, does anyone use a tube preamp into the PA?"
Not just tube preamps. Yeah, the LW pedals are probably the best suited and most popular for harp. But there's also the Holmes Harp Commanders, the DigiTech RP effects pedals which have patches made for harp by Richard Hunter, and even the Boss '59 Bassman pedal. There are also tube preamps like the ART Tube MP that can provide good harp tone through a PA, and they're very affordable.
@undertheradar, if you have the right transformer, you don't need an adapter. The transformer converts between the three-wire, balanced line and the two-wire unbalanced one -- look at the pics I posted.
It' like this low-impedance mic --> low imedance mic cable --> transformer --> amp ----------
